jump into the presentation for today I just want to make everybody aware that this is the main page for the Digital Services Forum so what I'm going to do is I'm going to paste this in in a little while once we get everybody into the meeting I'll paste this in so that everybody can have it if you don't have it already the four things that we provide are going to be these Zoom meetings that you're all on today there's going to be this community and this community houses if you go to the blog that's where I put all the meetings from the past so those will all be inside the blog there along with any content or code that was provided during the meeting we'll attach all that in there the other thing is we have a YouTube playlist and I'll show you what that looks like we got about 30,000 views on our meetings this year after the meetings happened so that's a really nice piece if you miss the meetings you can always go to the playlist and and Play that video back and then we have a shared instag and I think right now there's about maybe about 175 people that are admins on that shared instance and I know it's been slow in the past but I did a refresh of the instance not too long ago so we're on a new one now and it's uh it's a little bit more pppy than the one that we had before for a couple of years so if you do want to get on the shared instance because you see something you like on one of these calls and you want to get on there and look at the code or look how we configured something uh then you'll be able to get on that instance and use it so if you do send me an email I can get you an admin account on there and um and you can you can be on there just like everybody else and maybe even demo some of your own things your own configurations that you want to show from that instance someday another tradition we have if if anybody is here for the first time today if you can just go ahead and post where you're from in the chat and um and what your position is at that that company where you're from that'd be great this way all our members while I'm talking and uh everybody can welcome you to the the group and then know who you are it' be appreciated okay the um YouTube is a playlist right so the playlist I'll just keep adding to the same playlist as we go and you can see these are all of our past meetings if I go I ran some analytics on a couple months ago we get about 30,000 views over the last year on the on um all of our content that we've been putting up so if you missed something in the past like on financials or some of the things we'll be talking about on csdm you can go back and look at all those different meetings all right so let's get into today I'm going to provide you I'm G to talk a little bit about Road mapping and then I'm going to specifically focus on cmdb and an ideal meeting today would be for you all to change a lot of the ways that you approach your csdm and CNB Road mapping going forward so I'm going to give you this deck I'm going to give you a link to the deck where you can download this right after I'm done um you can either you'll be able to either view it online or you'll be able to download it and make some edits yourself so I actually have the PowerPoint version here and that PowerPoint version will be what you would want to download if you're creating your own road map and I'm going to show you a couple tips and tricks on there on how you can do it and then um the other thing is if you just need to go through what I'm going through today and show people some features in service now you'll be able to use this as a reference for that as well so the first slide some of you may have seen already the first slide in the in the deck for the road map is going to be our main slide for all of our capabilities so somebody I can't take credit for this somebody else does this what I did is I added a few things to this because usually it's a good place to start with Road mapping on what are we doing today and then what are we trying to do in the future so what you can do on this road map is I can drill into it service management and I could see in inside each of these once I drill down I could see inside each of these what we you know what you have deployed what you own but you're not using anything that's currently being implemented and anything that's proposed that you've looked at so this way you have an accurate inventory of what you're looking at what you're using and what you're not using now at times you'll have to go down and deep dive into one of these modules right so if I'm doing something something new I'll have and you click on the home button and I can go back but I might have to Deep dive into a module that I haven't used before to get some information more information about that module this is a little slow today here we go so let's say we're using sourcing and procurement and we don't know what that is so I can drill on sourcing in procurement and you can have a conversation that we're not using any of this today but then you might want to say okay what is what does it give me what are the things it gives me so shopping Hub right I can go down to each of these individual items and get more detail on the actual capabilities within each of the different modules that service now has so if you download this you will have to put it in presentation mode in order to be able to drill back and forth like this but then you could always go back if you hit your home button you can always go back all all the way up to that top level and and navigate your way back to that first screen so it's more like a website where you're Drilling in depending on who you're talking to you're going to need additional detail on things so the first thing is to figure out what up here because what we're going to do with our cmdb road map is we're going to tie that into the processes that we're supporting which is a a little bit of a shift for some of us right so instead of worrying about all the collections the cmdb and how to fill up all of our servers in the cmdb we're going to actually look at what that cmdb data is going to be used for so it's a good idea up here to you can take some checkboxes U let me get out of this presentation mode for a minute and I'll show you how we can color this up when when you guys get it if you want to color it up some more you'll be able to um I use this feature on PowerPoint called formatter and formatter will really help us on this exercise a lot so I know some of you probably are used to this already but let's say you want to you have some stuff that you're uh you're looking at proposing right so what you can do is you can click on proposed and then come up the format painter here and double click and then that gives you that gives you the formatting of this so what it's going to do is if I can say I'm going to look at workplace Services I can click on that now and then that'll change the coloring for me so that's going to be a useful thing for you going forward U because we're going to use that in the drill Downs as well we're going to use that same Legend to make sure that we know what we want to do what we're proposing uh as well as what we're implementing okay so that's how you could take this deck and and use it to go ahead and and you know basically inventory what you have and what you don't have today now the next section is the road maps right so if you're looking at a road map we want to take the things on the road maps and this is usually what we do is a high level one so we want to take these things up here and usually we put them on a road map like when are we doing something else for workplace or when are we implementing legal service because I have those clicked here right so once you get past that planning and the discussion about what's underneath here maybe you've had some you want to make sure that you go ahead and um and start Road mapping them right really look at the Horizon so I provided some road maps that we use so that you can use them yourselves but I want to explain also how we use those road maps so at a very high level right we can go into these different ones and and just say hey we're g to work on we're g to really focus on q1 on its at management uh cmdb and security operations and then we can slide these other things around right so these on this screen you're just basically sliding these things around to where you need them right so it's an adoption of mostly the new things that you'll be bringing in okay so here all you're going to really do on this map right is is say when am I my format painter on there but all you're really gonna say is when am I starting that or when am I going to start that new piece sometimes it might be that you start back here because I've already done it uh so sometimes you might be indicating that on there right now one of the things that I did different here is these um these are all things that service now service now markets right like it itam is something you'd have to buy um strategic portfolio management operational technology what I did here in this is going to be a little bit of the change in thinking today is I put in the um I put in cmdb as its own product so I I basically conf I configured cmdb like it's a module in itself even though that's not something that's not something you're buying directly like you're buying things to populate it you're buying things to maintain it but you're not buying things something you buy gives you the cmdb right it's part of platform and that's gonna be the one of the main Concepts today is the value of the CNB proliferates across all these areas so that's what we really want to take advantage of now on this road map and somebody probably can't pick this deck up and use it right away because you got to know where to click like on that first slide I knew that I could click on those things and I could drill down into the details right of each of these and then I knew I could drill down once more to get further details so on the same thing on this one these I could drill down on and because I'm running the deck I know that and it'll be the same with you when you're using this deck to communicate across your company you probably can't give it to people and just have them use it without knowing so if I click on itam it's going to now bring me into a road map uh specifically for what we're doing for it Asset Management so usually we do three-year road maps and then we'll align these what I'll try to do is I'll align to value that the organization understands right so the initiative a single view of all technology assets well what does that give me well it's going to help me decrease my annual Hardware spend is one of the things that one of the companies I work with was looking at you want to do your what Your initiative is and what value outcome are you trying to achieve all the way over to the right right and the same thing goes here because you will be in discussions over like what is asset management workspace right and you might have to go ahead and click and just get that next level of detail without going into a full-blown demonstration yet so you can click brings you down to the asset management space and then you don't want to click a back up here because that'll take you back up to that capability map that we were on what you want to do is you want to click here and that'll bring you back to Asset Management okay on the bottom I have a legend of you know what's what you own today and then what are future entitlements that are on this road map so it's really clear what we own and what we're getting more mileage out of because a lot of times a lot of the work you're doing is just working on something to implement that you don't that you that you already have right so you'll make sure that you indicate those as well as what you don't have on the bottom and then we can each of these will be able to drill down and drill back even even if I'm looking at hey this is Sam this is software Asset Management so I can go here and this is a Content Library that belongs to software Asset Management I did the best I could on uh compliance for 508 uh so that's why these things all have lines around them couple times we had color blind people and um and just colors alone don't work on these so when you're doing these road maps in the deck you have to make sure that you can you know drill into those items and then see both the shape and the colors on them as well right so everything on the road map should drill down when you get there any questions so far all right because we're gonna go right into cmdb next so just really quick I was trying to look on the Forum and stuff where is this deck located again the um I'm gonna put that in now on chat thanks and uh the first I'm going to put in a couple links for you so the first link I'm going to put in is going to be the Forum page and this video will be posted on that Forum page afterwards along with the content so if you want to rewatch it and how some of those things were used uh you can go to that Forum page and go to the blog and then the other one I'll post is this is a link uh to this this deck that I'm showing you today I'll jump back to that but this is this is a link to that deck that I'm showing now so what you could do is you can download this deck or you can just leave it where it is like if you're not going to color it up like I'm doing uh you can go ahead and play this right online like I'm doing now and I can go ahead and go to my whatever I want to my service catalog and go back home so when you download it it's going to be about 300 Megs it's a really big deck because of all the drill Downs so if you want to view it in place you can do that as well you didn't you weren't able to do that on prior road maps uh but you can do that now because we just got a new new product and service now that lets you actually do interactive decks online so that link I just gave you there should I see some thumbs up so I guess people are getting there today all right now the uh any other questions before I go I'm talking a lot here all right so if I go back on these detailed road maps it's there's a lot of drill Downs right so I try to make them as obvious as I can so return to our big road map and that's the uh the light up here I I created a couple other ones just so you can go down and drill like on like OT you know some of these just don't aren't all built out but they're more just templates so that if you're doing something on OT you can go down and get started but some of these you might have to Define your own templates I wasn't able to do them like a template for every roadmap the one I spent some time on and developed a lot of new drill down slides was this one and this is the one I really want to focus most of our time on today and um and definitely open up for conversations along the way so if I click on configuration management it's going to bring me to a similar road map that you've seen with all the other ones like I'm trying to keep consistency here so that people get used to seeing these same road maps same discussion same ability to drill down to the individual areas so I drill down to cmdb I got a lot of color on here first of all U but there's the 12 things in cmdb that we really want to focus on are up top here right so the these 12 things this is where we get value out of the cmdb what I mean by that is a lot of we spend a lot of times on this right let's let's populate the data in the cmdb all the different ways we can do that um I think I got to clean that one up let's look at how we normalize data in the cmdb the service graph connectors so you can have conversations on these things what service mapping is all the different ways that I can map my services so there's that discussion on the bottom Lane that needs to happen and what I've been seeing a lot of and our people are stuck down here they're so stuck maintaining the health the cmdb that they forget what they're doing the cmdb for in the first place so they csdm is a big part of that too right like with csdm they'll spend a lot of time just trying to configure everything in csdm instead of trying to figure out how do I use this data like what am I building it all for so each of these areas are going to be really good discussions on how to do that so what we're doing is we're looking at a me like a mesh between the people that own these processes and the people that are defining the cmdb data and that overlap of people the coming together of people in those conversations are where we're breaking down a lot so a lot of times when I go in I'll find out like the cmdb person um or the the incident person doesn't really know what's going on with the cmdb because they're not involved in the configuration of it so if you click on each to these there's a a good discussion on a slide but there's also going to be a drill down on that conversation so this could be the cmdb person going to the incident person and saying hey this is what I want for Incident Management or it could be the Incident Management person coming to the cmdb person saying let's have this conversation so if you look at the incident and um we're focused on certain parts of the csdm right so if you're a cmdb person you're really deep in csdm you don't want to give a dissertation on what the common service data model is to The Incident Management person because The Incident Management person what they really understand is they understand that the stuff that I'm putting in the tickets right are my business services and my service offerings this is the stuff that I get tier one helped calls for right so this should be all the stuff that we're we're offering to either employees or customers all the sellc consumed stuff okay so these things are what we're putting in the ticket down here so this is the standard incident ticket we're able to put that data in I don't know if I can zoom at the same time there we go right so I can go here right and then I can H I can do one or the other not both sorry about that so I can go here and fill those things in and that's really what the incident person needs to fill in these ones and twos now the idea here is that as you're filling these things in there might be because it's a certain service offering it might be a different support team right so usually what you're going to have here is you're going to have Level One support right can identify the business service offering because that's what we're actually that's what people are actually consuming level two people are usually going to be the application service teams right and then your level three people are all the people that that take care of the technical services my networking my all my other pieces so if you're I have a question sure so it's about the one two3 John you know the the Assumption there is the s t agents are very familiar with the application portfolio they and and or the business portfolio and they understand the business service that relegates the offering that gets you to the CI but we addressed it the exact opposite way because we know the application service would be the CI because of the digital portfolio management and then all of the things in APM will depend on that CI right as far as you know how many incidents you know for each one of the applications so the application service and number three gets selected and since we know its relationship that it the business app consumes that application service and we know that the service offering depends on application service then two and and one could basically be automatically populated right depending on how you do it but that's how we did so it's curious you're doing one two three but we're doing it one two three the other direction because we don't have to populate the service offering or the business service because we know those connections from the app service we we just have the application team of help desk agents populate that application C Service CI it's very familiar the name is similar to the service offering name and and it's also similar to the business app name we see that a lot unique ID that ties the a custom unique ID that ties all three together right right so we know that if application service prod you know let's just say one two 3 six that's going to be associated with the service offering 1236 as well as the uh not necessarily business service but the B business application would have that unique identifier 1236 so is everybody following the one 123 from the top down and what what's generally the consensus out there A lot of times what we see here is is this business service offering becomes the same name as the app when they're oneto one but a lot of times if they're not if it's one to many right it's one service offering that needs four different apps then you then you can't really do that yeah exactly that's the same thing most of the time it's one to one but sometimes they can't be yeah yeah like we were just out at um Healthcare organization in Arizona and we thought like there was we thought that was one to one because there was the name of an app and people called in about the app so we said all right let's put that in as the service offering because that's what they're calling it right if that's what they if that's what the the consumers are calling it then it's the same name and then what happened was they're like wait a minute there's three teams I could forward it to there's not one so we had to end up with three application Services instead of one so then we then we said okay here how do we teach these people to get it to the right into the right bucket right the right application service and looking at the seems there's some consensus out there too John I have a comment that may kind of help with this if you don't mind um no that's great I want this to be interactive so we got plenty of time so I was taking as you were putting the numbers down one two three um putting on like a help desk you know an incident management Persona hat on a lot of times the client calling in may be like you said my whatever product isn't available service or something they're they're not going to get specific so what the information that's coming in may start off more General to the overall service you then can drill down into what is unique about this this um subscribed client to that service and you get the offering for your individual contractual terms and commitments and then you could further drill down into it which specific CI is this related to yeah yep exactly and that's the kind of the one two three here that you're talking about yeah I think it matters where you're coming from from an organization so you know where we are we are actually at the point right now where we've for you know for years we have we we choose the business application as the CI of an incident which is which the csdm does not expect that because it's a non-operational CI so we are in the middle of then shifting to the csdm model operationally and the jump is easier for the for the Frontline business uh businesses to say well we've always been doing business application we're going to shift to application service so we're going to take all of our business applications make them application services and then they're there right and we already have a on to many relationships so we can't go you know we can't do that where it autop populates yet right so maybe that's something that people should consider that maybe they go to one to one to one initially and then start uh building that out but that might break your automation because in a ticket you can only choose from a from a core incident you can only choose one offering and one business service but then oh we lost mic if he doesn't come back John can I jump in clayon here yeah sure in the additional leverage that piece right there so we lost you for a minute we lost you for about 15 seconds oh okay so we um I don't know where I left off but so I think oh we lost him again solar flare goe well just to say that I come at this from a completely different angle so I'm biased here I think the mature maturity of12 from an a business application focused or so I might be breaking up sorry about that you're breaking out Mike so we're going to jump over to Ian uh PA if I can pile on coming up from a completely different angle I used to build these data centers for a little chap called Ross perau and everything was through an Outsourcing lens and really we had to work out what's more important to an end user paying an invoice or creating an invoice you know trying to work out like the business impact analysis type thinging and they would say oh obviously creating an invoice you know I want everything but and our support systems were built that way to try and capture some of the Highlight you know the major activities that people are doing and we could associate that with a location to help us and then eventually we would associate that with an offering you know the how that's offered to them in what package we don't have any of that activity unless I've missed it inside the platform you know that activity level the nearest we get is process it's got business on the front and what I've said to Mark and the others on the cstm side is in the future can you drop the business off the process and give me a type then I can use that is there any thought of linking this you know not not forcing me to buy the business continuity Mo management module but at least to align it with that so that when you talk to the business and you're saying look how many of these transactions or activities who helped you perform and yes we're having difficulties helping you pay an invoice and yes I can line my knowledge up and my support team better is there any thought in that direction because that gets traction with the business when we're talking to them I mean I can't expect an end user say oh yeah let me tell you what offering I'm using I mean think about I'm not following like like paying an invoice should be enough right if that's what they're calling in they're having problems with right but then the agent has to do the mental gymnastics to associate the paying and invoice with a particular offering or a particular application yeah so how is there any thought in the future to help us do that wiring you do I don't have to have I mean we used to use the Erp systems to pick up all of those activities you know the major function it that any of the modules would support you so that would be in a finance app and there's a bunch of other things that could go with pay an invoice and create an invoice so that's what I'm missing yeah is that's the level down because that's typically what I'm hearing when when I complain about my internet being down I typically call someone and say look I'm trying to I'm trying to watch the game and I can't watch the game you guys suck what's wrong now they might say oh well uh what offering are you using I have no idea right yeah but I can tell you what I'm trying to do and I can't do the language isn't as M doesn't matter like those things that they're telling you they can't do should be in the offerings table I don't understand why like you couldn't put those in there as part Oh you mean like the in scope out of scope type stuff or yeah like what you're offering the problem they have like that might be in this description the ins scope out of scope but the the this is supposed to be the language that they're calling in about right these are the contractual agreements you have to do c to support certain things um you know for those consumers I'll hand back to you John I'll fire those questions off to you behind the scenes then yeah because uh I think that's where we're going to be going and um you know I'm working on stuff right now where where we got this cojin between CSM uh product models and sold products and accounts and then cstm you know and that is becoming to be a big big interest for a lot of our clients yeah and I'll show you like these are the exact conversations that we want to start having about the cmdb like how much of this data I I see so many times there everybody's worried about complete models and this conversation we're having today like the fact that you can't use it for Incident Management because we don't have the right language in there like that's what you need to that's the conversation between the help desk manager and the people that are working on the cmdb right or maybe liaison between the two right um maybe a product manager that manages the cmdb data so these conversations are ones that we're missing on when um you know and a lot of times why the Project's getting stopped because we can't figure this stuff out we can't figure out how to help those tier ones get to tier twos and the tier twos get to tier 3es which is really the purpose of the data right is that so this I think some of these guides that we have in here can help uh but on the road map if you have those discussions and we can start looking for use cases across a broader Spectrum right so so I can look for what I'm doing for Incident Management but I can also I might be having a a conversation with the change manager which is a different conversation right because the change manager is coming at it backwards so how do I have that conversation and say what am I actually hey I'm I'm G to infect my um I can't pay an invoice now or paying an invoice may be affected because I am altering these Technical Services or doing changes on these Technical Services right so you're kind of bubbling up from the the technical components that you're changing to understand the impact on these offerings on what the business is consuming so John yeah so backwards I guess you mean the change manager is adding the configuration item to the change the configuration item for us and I think that was the guidance for service now should be the application service could be the offering I suppose but if it's the application service and then you select um refresh related CI Services you would sh essentially get all other services that application services that may be related to those application services and then of course all its offerings and then obviously you have the connection back to the business apps yes so anything you're changing down here um usually that's where your change is taking place will bubble up here and anything connected here will bubble up here to show the impact on the business right so the that's what those depend on relationships do is let you walk Upstream um or what we can do here is with the business offering we can work Downstream exactly either way plus the connection to the business app so you know that that business app was impacted so if you're only going to do a little bit of configuration right and not aim for 100% cmdb completeness which is you know that's a tough goal to aim for then picking out the use cases here that we can help with right away and get that embedded in the change process so that we can have kind of a minimal viable product or a minimal viable set of data that we can start working with because a lot of times people are just waiting to get all their servers in and waiting to get everything there we're not there yet we're not there yet we're not there yet but there should be conversations you can have about what are the those really problematic applications or troubleshooting paths right where are my reroutes happening or where am I getting a lot of changes that are impacting my business that people are getting frustrated with like those conversations you can look to configure the data to facilitate those things right to help the change process yeah right now with dig DPM it all rolls up so you can easily see it at those levels yeah and then DPM is another conversation right so the vpm use case is that I want reporting data um and security incidents it's another conversation right what am I doing with security incidents well I'm looking for security people would love to have the value to Bubble Up right because they have a configuration item that's impacted by a security incident and they need to be able to see what is what services are being impacted right so I could tell the difference so with a security person having these conversations and making them understand the data you're building and and just their part of the cmdb that they need to understand so they're interested in going Upstream right so you need to have that connection from the infrastructure items up to the app Services maybe out to the business services but at least up to the app Services um right so these are these are the right conversations to have in my opinion about the cmdb these kind of 12 areas here where we get all the value from a lot of people like I said they spend a lot of time up here in app portfolio when that use case has nothing to do unless you're moving apps you know Business Services to app services like I think Mike said earlier um you really shouldn't be up here at all with your incident manager right they don't this stuff when you start getting up into application portfolio management right they're the people that are going to care about this data so you really need to break those conversations up uh when you're having them and then not do the work until you have somebody signed up to catch it right somebody signed up is going to be managing the application life cycle they're going to be looking at that portfolio or doing the planning against it right or even like I know you liil you guys are now getting the technology portfolio which is you know everything from here bubbling all the way up to here which is really nice well yeah we automated it all so when a new business application gets created it automatically creates a Dev test and prod applic Service Plus it automatically creates an offering plus that um off the application service the offering all all the business app has to have an application uh application model Associated you do an agile and things like that so it's all it's all cascading getting automatically created now whether servers go into that application service right sometimes you won't have any you'll have it on servers on the prod but you want to have it on test or Dev doesn't matter because the construct is for us at least it's Dev test and prod now other companies could have Northwest east and south you know do whatever you need to do so some of these like application portfolio management we have the dock the reference doc that tells you how to use csdm for it so this is a snippet out of that Dock and these are the the value that it provides the um some of them don't have that like for security incidents we don't have a CSM guide yet so what I did for security incidents and vulnerabilities for example is I showed the connection of like where you're getting the value from the um cmdb but all these guides aren't there all the time so the one that um I think that was Ian before mentioned if you come in here for business continuity management uh we have a business continuity manag agement map that shows you know how to get back to it but we don't have an irm one but you can kind of derive the irm conversation from the business continuity management because that really is all about managing risk so sometimes you might have to like if you are using these as guides to have conversations with the BCM process owner the irm process owner or a product owner you can um you know you can use proxy for that right to have those to hold those conversations are these guides out in um now create oh they're in docs they're just in docs okay yeah yeah so when when there is a guide available I link them on the bottom so if you do need more than just the picture I'm showing you you can click out here and get to those thank you you're welcome right and U lot of are you on today and know Lada is from our value team I am on hey everyone so this is um lot sent me an email a couple weeks ago about you know what the business value of the cmdb because we're trying to paint that picture so this lot I thought this was going down that direction and you're Pro I don't know if you're cringing at my numbers I put out here but this is uh we have a team to derive those so yeah I know I was like this I didn't this conversation is really helpful we're we're um working with a customer right now um who is is struggling with kind of the the quality of the cmdb and the efforts required to be able to bring it up to the right level um so we're working with them kind of to identify the the value that can be dered and John this conversation is really helpful I think this is a great way of articulating the the the impact the value that um a good csdm good cmdb can make Co I think we can work together maybe on some of these numbers I just dropped stuff in there for now that I thought made sense but we could probably get to like industry standards over here sort of like you done with some of those so we can at least give some some rough numbers in there and that I think that would be great because I think this needs to be treated more like a product just like you're rolling out everything else and the problem with the cmdb person is they could never be successful because they have they're getting dragged across all 12 of these people and there might even be two or three more that I'm not even thinking about yet right that like spm's not in here so these people are trying to satisfy like everybody is coming at them and thinking the cnbb is horrible because you can't do all 12 of these things coming out of the gate and it's like well we didn't populate business apps yet we can't really do application rationalization right so then the cmdb is horrible right so to be able to hold these individual conversations and um and maybe not some right if you don't have somebody signed up for certain certain things you can't really do it like if you don't have a partner in security manage you you you can't really do much of this right so you have to make sure you have the people on board on both sides to have the conversation and then determine what the right data is to populate first or where the win is where I can hit this guy this guy and this guy at the same time right those like maybe a matrix that we work out to say you know this is the data I'm going to use first so a lot of people go after service mapping because service mapping obviously gives you a lot of these right a lot of wins yes it does yeah so that's um so I think that's where I see it breaking down a lot a lot of times I come into the organization and I'm having these conversations with the process owners for the same time at for the first time and um I know it's not like this in all your organizations so I don't want to you know generalize but that's it is like that mine it is yeah oh yeah no you're hitting the nail in the head and lot if you get into any conversations value points I wouldn't mind being invited into those um because I'm at the stage right now we're trying to tell them the value of the cmdb build process around it you know because you have to to maximize that value but um it's still a challenge getting buy into the processes and things and getting people to fully even buy into the product where're we're still fighting that battle Yeah so um if you build it they will come um I'm trying to take that approach but but it's not that easy because there's money involved in building it I have to go fight for the money too exactly yeah does does anybody have a cmdb product owner or is that like yes we do we we do that's my boss and she fights this battle she's as aware of everything I just said as I am and fights this battle every day okay I am for our company it's not so much the cmdb product on as ort what's important is every product in your system has a product owner then you're spread loading the responsibility because everybody has a stake in the game yeah yeah what's interesting here is when you um if you go back to that conversation we had a few weeks ago I don't know if everybody remembers when Charles was on um and he talked about hops from cash hops from money right so if you go into like a product that you're selling um you know you're you're you're one hop from cash right so so this is what you're sell these are products you're selling directly to the customer so the customer is here and they're buying these products that you're making right and then if you look at our products um you know we're probably anywhere between three and five hops from cash because we're what we're doing is we're supporting these processes and the employee processes and if you look at cmdb it's probably like you know five or six hops from cash right because cmdb is supporting all the processes that support the processes right that get or support the the the services to get delivered right so that's why it's sometimes there's a lot of reasons why it's hard to make the business case and if we start to to boil down those reasons it may be a lot easier to make the case so the case I see most why CNB gets blown up is because it um people are trying to get to 100% or 80% before they give any value up here there's no incremental value gained by people that are running these things uh prior to the completeness and and that's a really tough game right to to get all your data perfect down here before you give anybody any value um because there's always like those little gotas down here right with the discovery probes and new data coming in and the dynamic Cloud environments that are you know spinning stuff stuff up and ripping stuff down so you're you're constantly struggling down here but there should be some way that you can get like those hard ones for the incident teams or those the ones that are really impactful for the change teams so I think these need to happen you know in in concert with these and a lot of these people just have no clue what the cmdb can help them with in their processes but is true yeah John it this is an interesting conversation and asking about the product owners i' been aside from the the the analyst and the advisor and all that just basically took over ownership um because of all the the responsibilities but in companies like ours that you know we currently have uh what do we have 6,000 business applications and almost 30,000 uh business services and 65 almost 66 million CIS um we've been a customer since 15 and late 14 um so we've been through a lot of the evolution definitely before csdm um some of the prior conversations like you're saying and understanding what's the basics that you need to have in there just to be able to support itsm you know get get your services get get your marketed stuff what your your clients are call it what you your salespeople and different teams you know what they're selling and marketing get that defined and get it related to you know some offerings if possible but even just services and CIS and and get that lined out there your service mapping we've been through different efforts with that if you don't get those Services defined well your service mapping will fail you're that is true you're trying to map stuff that isn't there or maybe it's a combination of Services it could be whole platforms worth of stuff and you're out there trying to map it and you're hitting boundary after boundary and it's just impossible um so if you can figure out your services it's probably one of the the least focused areas because even if you start getting strategic and doing APM you got to get your capabilities and try to get those mapped to those Services whether it's something that's code based whether it's you're sending a a person out to go do something or somebody's just sending a report or transmission or something like you're tying it all together to what is it that you actually sell yeah consume client outside in kind of stuff sorry no no I I thought you were done we're we're focused right now you know we're maybe a little less mature than some of you guys are pretty big um on just getting our application services defined mapped and getting them up to a business application and you know on the csdm on the tab you know that's basically the craw face the way it's defined right there in the tool a lot of people don't realize too that you don't have to have all your app Services mapped like a lot of times you're getting a win just by helping that level one get to level two like in the case where L says a lot of them they're all one to one because they understand the app first um but aot lot of times if they're calling in like about invoicing invoicing might have three or four different apps in there or like I was talking to somebody the other day um they had the web the the front end was a different application than what they were using on the backend database right like it was an application that connected to another data source so there's different teams so just helping route those tickets with the service owners um and and sometimes this is more of a problem than this and everybody assumes this is the big problem all the time but a lot of times it isn't lot of times if you can get to that app team they're like I know my servers I don't need you to tell me which server it's on right I I know the one that's GNA because there's three servers under my app right and I spend all this time waiting for it to be service mapped sometimes you just need to get the app service definition without any mapping there's value there and people don't sometimes they don't get that they think there's no value in defining the app services but to your point earlier Define the services first and then you know yeah John I I'm try again just cut me off if I start breaking out again but to me that's the key is establishing that relationship you know if you people know the business applications that they have out there and if you can communicate that basic relationship from business app to app service to service offering and then a business service that right there is a key even without the mapping to the to the infrastructure I think we're so focused in the orange because typically we're a technically oriented people that are trying to drive this but if we shift our Focus to the customer to what is being consumed there we can define a simplified approach based on adhering to the csdm guidelines of relationships to that very specific path business you can strip everything else out and you go business app app service service offering and obviously you have to have a business service because you can't have a service offering without a business service you get those four components in place and you then operationalize incidents to that you can already utilize you can all then you have an opportunity to already utilize buil-in automation when you get to a on to many relationship with impacted Services yeah it's interesting when you're talking about the the implementation of csdm and we have a lot of conversations about APM and the managed Technical Services and sell and consume and the same thing happens in our environment which we 've been running for five years or more is that there's a lot of focus on these upper sections but what's even missing from this chart here is the uh Foundation domain and what has happened in our environment it is is that it's been pretty much ignored and then as we try to implement the newer pieces uh for example they were trying to do uh some uh sdlc or they're trying to do contract management and all of a sudden they realized the business table makes no sense or locations are misdefined and you can't L upper ones but that's the upper levels and domains is where all the attention is well thanks so much for bringing that up because that is that's another thing I'm seeing here like if the people that are taking these bite-sized chunks you basically develop a team to go after that foundation's group like if the incident problem and the change person and you got your your business continuity person all rallying together like we have poor foundational data therefore you know we can't support our cmdb those those are really effective techniques right to driving the project forward is um it's not just you yelling that I need it for cmdb but it's them also yelling with you that I need it for my process and then when you're looking at the foundation domain uh one of the things we've kind of been trying to work on is um you have a lot of data stewardship down there and you use the term data stewards uh across the board and we've kind of come upon one definition but I I I haven't found service now where they're saying here's what we mean by data Steward and we've separated it from data owner so the data Steward we've assigned to be governance and standard s and facilitator for those automations and data entry that's happening to make sure that the automations Discovery whatnot are doing proper normalization that the data is consistent with csdm standards that they've set forth whereas a data owner actually owns the entries yeah so there might be a particular group that is responsible say facilities for your locations related to facility structures but human resour resources wants to enter locations for human employees that are strewn about the country right and so you have to have a central facilitator which we call the data Steward um and then a data owner owns the actual entries uh I was just wondering if that's consistent with what service now had in mind or if there were another definition or another way to approach it I have a lot of this stuff in my opinion should not be stored in service now like it should be gotten from somewhere else in an ideal situation these would come from like ad groups um a lot of the foundation data but I don't know if other people think that way or they think no we're never going to get it right there it has to be done in service now well I think the data has to be represented there for example we have oh yeah yeah an HR System that downloads locations for employees because we will send assets out to their home yeah and then we're trying to track where the asset is which is Hardware Asset Management in service now and so while the data is coming from a source of Truth in another location it must exists and be represented appropriately in the foundation tables for that to happen y you must have that map there yeah yeah that just leads to the complexity of a data Steward who's not responsible for the human resources system but has to be able to communicate and facilitate and express the standards for the data coming in that Foundation data that might be worth a home meeting yeah I I would dig it because every time you talk about csdm implementation they're talking about the upper levels and it's like wait a minute even before crawl you're supposed to do the foundation first and usually when we get to the EA level I was talking to an EA out when I was out in Arizona with a customer and and she was saying the same thing she was saying that you know we don't have good foundation data which makes us struggle with a lot of this and it's like oh that's a good problem to go after usually when it gets up to the you know those levels they're hearing from it from a lot of people hearing about it from a lot of people when it bubbles up I want to talk about one we got um it's 927 and somebody mentioned CSM before so I wanted to make sure that I at least um brought it up on here and let you know that I do have um CSM yeah customer service and um this is a little bit of a different Beast right because how do the um how do does the csdm the csdm interact with the objects that customer service brings on specifically so this is a little bit of a different conversation and like I said if uh I think these guides help you have that conversation a little bit to make them understand enough of it where um you don't get too far into where they don't care right they just want to deliver their products and services so you're you have customer facing product managers out here they want to know the minimum here but you have to help them understand the value like we're going to be able to fix your stuff faster we're going to be able to tell you when the changes we're making could affect your like those conversations I think are really nice to have um you know with the CSM product managers sometimes you're selling it right and you have have to say that we have to be able to support all your SE all your different customers that are buying those products um so I didn't want to go too deep on it but I didn't want to make mention that um you know the same thing here on the road map if you're putting on I'm G to work with CSM because these are products we're selling you know you can you can drill down on that one as well so we are at the end of our time this is thanks so much for the interaction I I I hate those conversations where I talk the whole hour it seems like a a waste to me so I appreciate everybody that jumped in um hopefully you get use out of this um any comments you can either send them to me if you just click next to the dock when you download it um the link is I'll put the link in there again but if you click on that um that link you can put comments my email address is right in there too so you just send me a note and we'll iterate on this and make it better for everybody I just want I I actually found this you you were worried about how it went I found this to be one of the most useful dsfs I I've ever attended this was really good and it speaks it it was less technical but it speaks more to the battles that we're dealing with you know as we're trying to get your tool adopted by an organization frankly yeah here here here you know the intricacies of the model is one thing but raising the awareness of how you know what it's going to take to get something like this built out the transformation involved that's a hard Road yes and would love to see more of these be on focused on on that I know some of the ones you get that go into the deep technical stuff have value too to people that are at that stage but there are I think a lot of us at the stage where we've got the tool inous we are trying to make sure people still want to continue to pay for it year you know next year and the year after that and we need them to see the value in it yeah and understand why they need to and why they need to provide money and resources for us to you know like you said if we build it they will come but we need to first get be provided with the money and resources to build it and that's a battle right there yeah yeah you know and you're the you're a product manager when you own the cndb or the csdm so you need to be out there selling it too right telling people that this is what I can give you right but um there have been jokes about me sounding like a used car salesman on calls because I'll just interject value I'll go see right there that's a place for service and I was helping you you know on hat I do that all the time but um it doesn't create as much traction as we we need um so yeah anything along this line uh really but how to adopt the tool is huge for us I would encourage more like this thanks for the feedback yeah all right thank you everybody I I'll get this up on YouTube and we'll get it on the um I'll put it in the community so you have it with the content together and thanks for attending we'll see you in a couple weeks