this is Charles Bartley and I'm taking over for today so I am juggling admitting and getting this going we are being recorded we've got two speakers today um the first is Mark bodman he's going to be speaking on digital product management and the second is Michelle supper she's going to be speaking on csdm to archimate mapping um so these are both uh conversations that are happening more on the Enterprise architecture side of things um we've been trying to cover digital project product management over the last couple of uh sessions from various perspectives last week we talked Financial um this week we're talking more of the architecture aspect um feel free to ask questions and comments I will be um moderating that as as it goes and bringing comments forward to Mark and Michelle as needed um also uh we'll probably have a little bit of time in each session just for General Q&A don't be shy we know you guys aren't um with that in interest of time I'm just going to turn this over to Mark bodman uh thank you Mark for being willing to present to us the floor is yours all right well thanks for having me um and uh the presentation I'm gonna uh provide today is the same presentation I gave at a conference uh just last week and some of the folks in the crowd here already saw it so uh you could probably go to sleep for this portion um uh but but basically uh just to give you some background I've been involved with the open group for many years um on the architecture side archimate it for it and this this session is um to present the work that we're doing in a small group of folks uh of mostly Enterprise architecture ITR folks but also uh there's some other things coming into play here I'll talk about too um and the and the the idea here is how do you architect things in a digital product world what does that mean um we're we're finding interprise Architects don't the Frameworks don't necessarily cover what digital products are and how those are being organized and how that product centricity is now starting to take over uh I was on a call yesterday with a company and they're all digital products already they just they operate that way um but their Architects are sort of like still trying to figure things out um so you know this is my contact information if you if you and you can go to LinkedIn and Link me in uh the work that we're doing on this publication it's going to be a a guide at the open group and it will cross multiple standards portfolios so this won't have a lot to do with specifics and service now uh today it but it does have a lot to do with how influencing how we're going to change our data model how we're going to change the way our products work together and uh our strategy so this is uh very much a work in progress but we're we're kind of we see the light at the end of the tunnel we have our scope we have our outline we we uh have most of our material we just have to hone it and and finish documentation so why are we creating this guide you know I kind of told you but the main the main thing is that we're going to a a plan build deliver deliver run to this product Centric way of of of working with continuous product streams continuous Investments um I just saw a webinar from an agile guy this morning and the issue was um you know you you could turn the the development team into agile but how does the rest of the organization operate in an agile way and this has always been a challenge and that's because at the funding level we don't necessarily use product Centric way of thinking we still use other ways and then operations is really you know service Centric only which is good but then it doesn't connect right um Gartner published a a paper uh not too long ago talking about their customers agonizing I've never seen this in a Gartner publication but they they've articulated their customers are agonizing over the definition of product and this kind of started our journey about four almost five years ago now to Define what that means um and you know where it's because where product is used today is is a little confusing you've got products that you buy from an asset management point of view that's a very common term there you have products owners in Agile development processes uh scrum processes that's very common and of course customers sell products they their product may be a service but this is something that's very again common and these are not referring to the same thing at all you know you go to you go to a different team a different crowd you're you're you say product everybody interprets it differently um they're not managed in relation to one another very well and they are not talking about what you do manage which are the apps and services you deliver to your customers so these this is sort of the market situation I think some folks might have seen this slide before uh but it's a good way to summarize the the problem statement and when we actually got together we said okay we want to focus on Project products rather than projects that's the funding vehicle that's the entity we're going to trace through investment through out outcomes being real ized and um these are going to be proactive long-term road maps and cost and Investments and things like that that we need to track there's a lot of organizations don't have a product mindset or PLM kind of background so they get you know they this is a big shift for them they still operating largely out of projects um we need to also incre increase the formalism of what those what that means to be able to continuously operate there's always a tcco aspect for a product you put out there digital product and you you know really need to put some controls in place like an Erp capabilities or resources and then um you have this customer consumer Focus uh and life cycle management of what you deliver to your customers you can't just put it out there and forget it you're going to have a continuous need to improve or take back uh take your Fe feedback from your customers and and make some improvements so uh so those are those are kind of the context and this is another uh good validation of the shift I mean most folks probably aware of this to some degree this is a deoe um uh presentation that we refer to in our in our work U we got deoy actually participating in actually creating this body work and you can see really there's a interesting thing they publish which is the correlation between product owners and Architects and the question is what does that really look like how does that done you know um like there's no really a guide out there that gives you a recipe on how you interact today so this is the teup for our guide right this is all just Market context and we we actually debated a lot on what what are we going to do here right we know there's a problem how do we articulate the problem in for whom and we came back with two basic statements and this is really everything as an architect Enterprise architect what do I need to do to be effective in this new digital product world so assuming everything has been you know productize so to speak what is what is this what does the EA do and as a digital product manager how do I get value from the EA activities or folks that are in the organization so this is the meeting of two new two roles working in a new way and and thinking about all of these problems that we just discussed um and we have to start with a common definition of digital product and when we say digital product what does that really mean and and so this is the definition that we published years ago within the paper um some of the folks on the tall as Michelle Sue and Stephanie helped publish that um and this is that core definition the thing to carry away is that you you've got um outcomes that require software to deliver and that could be a a a robot an API call a human interactive device and that software can be multiple things that are all chained together in order to work um so so the the generic is intentionally somewhat vague or I would say um um conceptual because it applies to so many things these days and we can then work on breaking down what is the product and who is the consumer and what is the outcome I expect um and these are just some examples that folks May recognize and it's and it's a like I said a broad range of types of digital products that this applies to everything from the app on a phone um I use my my oven in my house is now digital because it connects to Wi-Fi and I can see the outcome of my oven um on my on my watch it'll it'll let me know my my oven is up to temperature or the timer is done even if I'm in another room modern cars have a lot of technology in them and order to make them go and uh you know Tesla's a great a great example of that uh I would say that if you've ever ridden a Tesla it's kind of like driving an i ad best way to describe it um iPad with wheels so it it's quite of a different world that we're going into and all these examples of digital products uh I'm just kind of speeding through this for the interest of time uh do we have any um any any questions out there I just want to take a quick pause and Charles I'll let you filter yeah Ian you've got a question here I think but I can't quite figure out the question maybe it's more of a comment around um product management and service management having a longer background do you have question here actually for Mark rather than me trying to rephrase you oh no uh can you hear me okay yes we can now yes oh I'm getting it's like flare trousers a back Mark I mean this whole we struggled for years through the iil era to say exactly what you're saying and there's a there's a mountain of heritage reference material from product management and marketing the business and uh one of the seminal books is by Richard Norman n o r m a n uh it was the first book on service management and yeah it's a it's a collector's piece but it's exactly this the digital part my comment was that's just a medium the most popular for uh consumption but the whole thing was trying to uh as product managers trying to work out how to manage this new era type of product a service um you know which had more human uh touch in those days absolutely absolutely and so you know tracking the it for it stuff I mean yeah this is all coming into Focus but it's I think we need a rider to persuade or to help people really go back to basics which is it when I ran a data center was a service provider and if you could get the people to realize that then you can play the customer sat game and the value game but you know those words didn't didn't mean much until you could sort of put things in place that enable people to understand what that meant you know it as a service provider yes yes and and and we I mean I think the building blocks are there we're just trying to build put it back together in this guide for a very specific role in in that interaction how do I operate now assuming this is your new way of doing doing work and just one last comment and I'm hogging it a bit but we actually got some success with just taking one product stroke service at a time rather than the whole organization and saying to people you can leave the rest as is let's take something and that's where we positioned that service management office that acted as a virtual decision-making machine as to either passive oh you want me to uh make this into more of a service or a product let's look at it or active go Target something and we had some success but we needed that little organizational core couple of people who part-time knew how to do this knew how the system could help and then just roll out one example because even rolling a service out when you've got an existing support center is extremely you know you moved a lot of cheese absolutely and and part of uh you know so hold on I think we'll address some of those things in this guide the the the uh intent is to bring some of the knowhow and suggestion course of action into this guide um okay so really what we're doing in this in this body of work is bringing together the it for it standard you mentioned that before I did which was great great nice lead in toap which is a common very popular Enterprise architecture framework and a number of other things things like OAA DP boach team of teams um things that that also are available within the open group or common way of structuring your organization to do these things there's still some challenges but it's it's a there's a lot of I would say referenced material we're incorporating um and if you're not familiar with it for it this is kind of a high level Vision VI view of what this is and um don't have enough to get into this as a course you could take a course from some of our partners uh this is digital product Focus the first thing to note is that digital product in the in the lower left hand side this orange dot is the new core the new entity that to focus on everything else uh comes from that and so that's our our new core there's seven value streams now in it FR version 3 evaluate is the the first one which gets your it's your feedback loop either from internal or or the market explor is exploring investment options for each digital product or product portfolio integrate is when you you know continuous integration think about that you're actually building new versions you may or may not release and deploy continuous release continuous deploy which again cicd sort of world and then continuous operations and so these are the seven value streams that now make up the core of it FR and these value streams are continuously you know operating uh and whatever pace is whatever Pace makes sense um evaluation is more or less at your funding level operate is break fix day-to- day functional components um are also a big part of this not displayed on this particular diagram but there's quite a few as you drill into this there's a lot more meat and a lot more detail and of course there is a data object um element of the it FR standard which describes things that we are related to these orange dots but these are the things like uh test plans requirements scope agreements value streams is now a core element and even architecture blueprints so we'll get some of that in a minute we do have another question there that might fit in with where you're at and uh could you please give an example of a digital product that is not a business service in the sense of csdm yeah it might be easier to articulate that here so if if you own the infrastructure Services um and I'll just use this as a diagram to illustrate this this would be considered a foundational digital product and a lot of folks would call this a shared it service but you're in you're you're providing a service for internal consumption um other teams would take your it service and build upon it or rely on it uh depending on where you are in the OC stack from you know the Network Services all you know storage all the way up to app services and even virtualization you know if you get to that level um but those are building blocks in the EA vernacular um but these are digital products in un into themselves and they form certain relationships that build teams for example would consume and those the red relationships that are articulated here are what's usually lost in a normal organization the full life cycle of whatever I delivered to you as a consumer on a build team are are typically lost when you look at a cmdb for example it's hard to put that together you have to look at the cmdb and the CI structures to kind of reverse engineer how these relationships really work um this is is there's a level of formality that needs to be inserted here to make this work well if not you might be outsourced you might turn you know you're your on premise data center team might become a you know uh doing something else and you're outsourc the cloud now your product lines another example um products that we sell we are a digital Product Company everything we sell is digital and um our product lines are are you know organized around how we deliver those to our customers we also have business cap abilities in which we automate the work employees do and the way the employees work you know we have an HR for HR systems um for HR departments Finance systems for the finance departments and so on and so forth and then we have the last one is the tool chains so the very fact that we have something called build tools one it's it's our own you know Factory to pump out new versions of our software to customers and everything in between so the build teams for shared services have a way of upgrading the shared service stuff uh independent from everything else but every digital product has its own Factory its own in you know everything from ideation process through delivering and managing their customers so there's an IT FR it component that underpins everything so this is not new this is basically already documented for the most part in the it fright standard the only thing that's new to this particular diagram is the addition of this Factory area and there is an open item to add this component to the standard um actually we met on that last week and so you'll see this probably appear in a update of the standard itself in the next year or so um okay so this is just a very high level uh depiction hopefully this the example helps but every everybody has to think about what they deliver as a digital product um there's also you know uh a guide that we're going to incorporate things like governance models how do you assess these uh capabilities devops how do you operate devops at scale some of some of those those uh context this is a good way of using it for it and and integration a lot of folks have started there as a matter of fact largely why it it was created is to understand that tool chain right how do how do each does each tool in the it ecosystem connect in order to deliver something to somebody uh but we're getting a little bit more now finite about that that something to somebody that uh and then of course the digital product Centric operating model uh we we do have another publication we um came out with earlier in this year into last year on on digital product Centric operating models and that would probably go through a revision in next year so as Justin man one of my our co-authors uh is is now at IBM and probably able to interact with us again so so that's kind of it in a high shell and a nutshell and um if you look at the digital products and personas the the key thing is how do EAS get involved so assuming that you know you're you're product Centric everybody's doing their thing they know who their consumers are internal external Etc what how do EAS now interact and shaping this and helping these these product managers make decisions or or Executives figure out where do I shift the funding is this does the foundational team need more funding are we going to Outsource that are we going to Outsource our our product value streams and our factories uh that that all has to has a a big impact to the folks and and uh the products that you're selling or dealing with internally and one of the one of the things in the guide that we're tackling is this element um this is again another part of the it for it structure you can go read about it and these are the the specific elements that are now part of the it3 structure and the evaluate value stream uh where you look at the governance and and look at you know proposed Investments and then of course how do they work with the digital product portfolio this is sort of the the meat of of what we're looking at and there's four scenarios that you go through in this particular evaluate value stream I don't want to turn this into an educational uh session on it for it but you got to consider your funding and where does do does a new digital product go what portfolio is this a a customer specific thing employee specific thing or is this something more foundational and I'm just going to use an example um internally so we sell a product called asset management and in that Asset Management we have a feature called normalization that normalizes the name of a product when we discover it well it is embedded in Asset Management today and we're looking at taking that portion out and making it part of the platform because other teams are creating these products um the these product models that that represent you know third party or internal products and the normalization process is not common and there as a result this is a discussion we're having to say we need to take this this feature out of this product move it into a common capability so um these decisions you know affect what you're going to do Downstream and how you fund activity or refactor products um about togga so another big component of this guide is incorporating toaf and looks like from a time check I've only got about three minutes so I'm going to be very very fast uh and this is the the TOA framework if you're not familiar with this this is the ADM and you you basically uh work around the what we call crop circle to develop requirements these are all the deliverables that you would have in a architecture and um I'm going to skip a few slides just in the interest of time and um what we want to do is say okay if Architects operate in this way and you're creating views and and and managing requirements in this way what if these requirements were about the digital product portfolio and products so again top down broad stroke if I'm I'm using this architecture framework and I'm trying to shape what's going on in this context um how do I now Express the product line architecture vision for what we sell and we have to think about the impacts to customers do I have compon common components or I segment the C C You Know product lines in a certain way what's the vision for that architecturally and then uh we also need a vision for the employee experience are you going to focus on a few platforms you going to Outsource HR or Finance right you could all these things impact your decisions likewise the vision for shared services is it going to be insource Outsource combination are you going to go to clouds and platforms and everybody basically Builds on platforms that's what we do our products are all built on our platform and then last but not least is product value streams is how do I do cicd at scale does everybody use the same tools or do we let everybody do their own thing and there's risks in of course doing that you want to make you know Six Sigma improvements for the factories so um this is just a a quick example of the breakdown of the information that we're actually looking at creating and also providing in this guidance and I'm probably at time the only other thing that I'll I'll cover just in a single slide is that we're also looking at organizational concerns and um I'm gonna be I'll just put this slide in there just to kind of give you an idea but when you're small as a single team it's easy but as you get bigger and bigger and bigger you're dealing with team of teams and you're dealing with problems such as cognitive load you don't want people sitting in meetings learning about what they need to do you want to get them you know task and get them off to doing things so we're incorporating some guidance on how we can help organize Things based on these digital products uh and how you can scale at different tiers um and that's pretty much it in a nutshell the the meat of the guide will come and there's a lot of material that we are bringing into into this guide shuffling around and creating some mey bits on on how to use the the uh these existing standards practices and ways of working and that's all I think I have time for there were a couple other questions um but I think we've more or less got them that um I thank you Mark um know that was quick we're g to turn it over to Michelle now and look at csdm and arate thank you um and thank you M for keeping to time and let's bring some slides up here we go okay good everyone can see that I hope yep good all right so welcome to mapping cstn for to arate so this is me um a lot of you know me a lot of you seen me before um 15 years Enterprise architecture experience and lots of systems architecture experience um I have uh also been working with the open group now for the best part of 15 years and before I joined service now I was actually a forum director at the open group looking after three different forums um so I've got quite a history with them and their standards i' I've contributed to I think two books eight standards several guides white papers many blog articles lots and lots and lots of things um and I'm now the Enterprise architecture advisor um across mere for service now so that is who I am what we're going to talk about in the next 20 minutes I'm going to introduce you to uh the white paper talk about what is a cstm why it's useful um B just a little brief introduction to archimate for those who aren't aware of it and then the mapping that I've made between these two things and then we'll look at how you use that so how to automate your Enterprise architecture capability within your organization and how to use the now platform with Enterprise Arch SE tools and then we'll close a circle um and then after that I will give you some bonus items if you stay with me to the end so uh right so I wrote a white paper um and this uh in this white paper I've mapped the csm4 to archimate um which you and you can download the white paper using that QR code that you can see on the screen so the mapping that I've done is mapping obiously sdm4 but I've included within that some extra elements um and all of those pieces so bits of the cstm plus those extra elements are translated into the alche notation within the model um essentially what this white paper will give you is a meta model um which you can use to uh produce a togf archimate based architecture um that will be supported by the now platform cstm um so definitions of all the different elements um in in the extended model within the paper are provided in a table at the end um so uh please do go ahead and download that paper um cstm 4 is described in the white paper by Scott LM and M bobin my co-presenters today um and that is also referenced in the white paper so what is a cstm the cstm model is shown here on the screen um and it describes the most commonly used elements in the service now cmdb um so which is a configuration management database the the sort of the brain if you like of the now platform where data is stored it's important to remember there there are many more elements held in the data tables on the now platform which can be accessed through the cmdb um so don't feel that you have to be limited to the data objects that are shown in csdm diagram here um it doesn't limit you it's just these the most common ones so why is csdm useful uh when a company's data architecture is is usefully aligned to the csdm and hence to The Wider cmdb um it's going to be far easier to design processes that make best use of the platform um it's essentially in the language that the platform speaks so it it it's good to align to it um this makes it possible to reuse and master data on the platform and it makes it easier to um flow data through the the platform without obstruction so you can share data between different uh packages within the platform itself like this um so it making that alignment to cstm it makes it easy to integrate data sources to the platform to share data more efficien efficiently within the platform um and also by mapping uh the Enterprise architecture meta models if you have one within your organization if you have an Enterprise architecture meta model if you align that with the csdm you can take full advantage of integration apps that exist between uh the different Enterprise architecture reposit you tools and the now platform um so this allows data to pass directly from the cmdb to your Enterprise architecture tool um and that could be used then to automatically populate your Enterprise architecture repository and that alone saves an enormous amount of time um in data Gathering uh if you're collecting information about your AIS situation your current state um so that enables the Enterprise architecture team that you'll have to focus on more valuable tasks like modeling your Enterprise and doing analysis and strategic planning and thinking for the future so yes this is how we're going to use the now platform to automate your um your Enterprise architecture so what is archimate the way I like to think of it arate is to TOA as maths is to physic so um I'm an astrophysicist by training um and so maths is is the language that we use to describe what we see in the physical world and archimate is the language that you use to describe Enterprise architecture um archimate is a nonproprietary Enterprise architecture notation is commonly paired with toaf which is um also an architecture standard and both archimate and togar for trademark standards of the open group um their specifications can both be downloaded from the open group Library if you have access to that arate itself is a visual language so it uses shapes and symbols and connectors to represent the different building blocks and relationships within an Enterprise architecture so archimate is a very convenient source for definitions so if you uh are struggling to find a definition for a particular type of thing like a business service say um have a look in theend in the arate standard U the writing team did an excellent job um and if you ever want to check any definition of any architecture element or stereotype I recommend that you consult the arate specification it really is very good indeed so the mapping itself mapping cstm to archimate how did I do that um well first I mapped the objects um in cstm to the best matching um arate stereotypes Okay so you know the obvious things um then I added some um some objects that aren't explicitly named within the cstm for so some of these objects I've added um aligned to tables within the now platform that can be used for data integration purposes some of the elements I've added would not typically be found um on the now platform at all um but instead you might create them as part of a transformation program or as part of an Enterprises business architecture so things that you might not find on the on the now platform but would include in a project maybe drivers um you know the reasons why you want to make a change um these elements um together all of them serve to connect uh the objects from the uh the it and data layers that are the primary concern of the now platform with the objects from the motivation of business layers that will Define the unique character and purpose of the organization being modeled or of the transformation that you're trying to do so when used together the objects in the cstm for and that extended meta model help to align the layers of your Enterprise architecture um particularly during during digital transformation um and that ensures that the it elements that you're putting in are going to serve the business needs which fundamentally is what you want your architecture to do so after that I connected the elements logically um and then Define them using both the definitions listed in the csdm white paper um and also the archimate specification yes Thomas that wasn't me did somebody M I'll mute you need to mute okay um you'll find a list of a full list of all the definitions and some examples of these things and naming conventions things within the white paper so please do download it um finally I'm when I've written the whole paper I submitted it for peer review so peer review and comment from Scott LM from Mark bobman um and also Mark Lan cost um so who's over at bis design so Scott and Mark are the leading authorities on the cstm um here at service now so all cstm questions to Mark please um Mark lost is the um key developer of archimate um so full Authority on this paper um and here is the model and yes I do know it's probably too small to read on your screen um again please download the white paper the QR code is there and that way you'll be able to see it in detail um the mapping um can be used in its entire in in in it in its entirety as a meta model within your Enterprise architecture if you want to do that or you could use parts of it to supplement or extend your current meta model um if your organization already has a MTH model or specific definitions that it has adopted or if it has different elements in its meta model um then feel free to adapt the material to fit your needs okay so this is all very flexible don't take this as gospel truth you can make you can tailor this to your own requirements so um why is this useful well you can you can automate your Enterprise architecture capability using tool Integrations so the bis design um integration app so the the app that goes between the cmdb and the bus design architecture repository is actually based on my mapping that you just saw um but tools have got um Integrations into into our cmdb and there is a tool Inspire that actually sits within the cmdb um just remember um when you are uh doing this so up to yeah so sorry there's there's several Enterprise architecture tools that can can map into AR main language um so if you're looking for external EA tools that can map into the cmdb business sign thex R do spar Mega hopex are all tools which can integrate with cmdb there might be others available if there are please let me know in the chat I can't keep up the number of tools that keep trying to integrate with us now um inspy is um is a a tool which actually sits native to the platform sits within the cmdb so you don't need an external um integration app to do that um and it will take data live straight from the platform itself if you're using any of these tools you can download the integration apps most of them from the service Now app store most of those are free as well um just remember um when you're doing your definitions each object in the csdm is defined um and those definitions span the Now product portfolio and the now platform so um as a result the closer your organization's data model is to the csdm the easier it's going to be to manage your data if you're using service now um so if you're going to maintain your repository using an integrated EA tool um um and using that to upgrade yeah then then do please try and keep your definitions as close as possible to the official ones um and that's going to make it possible to maintain your instance more easily and will make it easy to do upgrades in the future as well so very briefly if you're not familiar with some of the modules on the now platform I'm just going to show you this because I'm about to show you a diagram which was going to use some these abbreviations these are some of the different packages available to sit on the now platform um so we have the cmdb there there's also these other elements here these other packages so it time Simon ham all the asset management type stuff you got itm for service management and operations management item and digital portfolio management there DPM so if we take all of these we can put them all together like this so if you're planning to uh bring all of this material together on the now platform and use it to manage your your Enterprise architecture as well this is the kind of pattern that you might be interested in using um we often see customers pairing the service now APM with the Enterprise architecture Tool uh using APM to monitor day-to-day running of the it landscape um and the EA tool to map out the Strategic vision for how the landscape is going to evolve um and also how to align the business to the it layers so both APM and the Enterprise architecture tool are going to rely on cmdb and you can enhance the data that's in the cmdb by feeding it with different um feeds from different now products or from Integrations to external sources so if you're looking at this diagram you can see that here we have some different packages along the bottom of the diagram which feed into the cmdb every time you add in an extra package you're adding a facet of data a different dimension and that helps to enrich the data in the cmdb which then allows more data to go to your EA tool and also to the APM to give you more insight so I'm I'm not saying that all of these are essential you can choose any combination but of these the ones I would say were absolutely essential if you wanted to do this I'd certainly recommend Discovery and service mapping from itom that's going to populate your service catalog and your application catalog and that will really help you with your Enterprise architecture everything else is a is a wonderful thing to have so if you want to know um more about your technology portfolio management life cycle of data and so on use the asset management stuff it some andam that will give you really good insight into all those elements and it ties in well with iton irm will help you to include things like Risk so if if you are concerned with risk and compliance and governance within your organization irm is a good uh thing to add there if you're wanting to use your Enterprise architecture for strategic Road mapping add in SPM um and if you are looking to do devops perhaps and and coordinate all the development put in itm devops and DPM so some of these tools have got um two-way integration so some tools have a one-way and they just take data from the cmdb into the EA tool and then you can map them and create models some have two-way which enable you to uh make decisions from your Enterprise architecture models and then pass them back in to be actioned um into the into now platform itself and that's very very powerful so you can make a decision and then pass it back into DPM and you know let's say you want to retire an application you can send that in and it can go and be done in real life so that's a very useful thing to be able to do to give you some indication um of what that looks like yeah Mich one more comment on that last slide if if you could go back one thing I like about how she laid this out here in where archimate and cstm to me are really complimentary is as an Enterprise architect a portion of my job is exploratory Creative Design I'm understanding business I'm coming up with 15 20 options of what I can do I love doing that in a dedicated EA tool set I love doing that in archimate very rich expressive tools and environments for doing that some of those options maybe one or two of those 15 things I explored I'm going to go forward into production as digital products tying this to Mark's session earlier those are things I want to introduce as in potential new items that I want to get funding for and they become part of the application portfolio and that's that line connecting to to um cmdb and that connects to to what Mark was showing earlier so I love having both of those and having those talk to one another the things I want to go forward from EA I can turn into business app Rec records right there in the cmdb I can tie my design documents to those but I still have that freedom of explore exploration in in my EA tool set Mark also had a LinkedIn post a couple of weeks ago talking about EA tools and and uh your operational data like do you connect those or not um I'll try and get a link for that Mark if You' got it and can put it in the comment that would be helpful yeah I'll I'll place that yeah thanks Charles so if you are creating this so let's say you've got these elements um within your now platform and you're pushing that into your Enterprise architecture repository how could you use that as an Enterprise architect so I've put together this table and you're going to have these slides later so you'll you'll get an idea think of this like recipes so the basics that you have if you had APM and cmdb um that would give you uh the cmdb content and it'll you know push things out or just C MGB or push content out into your Enterprise architecture tool you can create your AAS and 2B views okay and you can if you need to have extra data you can bring that in from other tools or you can put it in manually if needed if you add in any of these extra pieces to this first line then you can get additional views so um for example you could um populate your application inventory um so you with the itom Discovery you get all your applications and the relationships between them with that you can make your application landscape the application portfolio catalog communication diagram and so on so you know this is how you build your Enterprise architecture very quickly um and again it saves so much time you don't have to walk around your organization and find all this data it's in the now platform so use that um to give you the information that you need it's a massive shortcut and it means that you know a huge efficiency saving in how you're going to build and maintain the the constancy of your of your Enterprise architecture um part of this as well um please note that the the models I've suggested you make here are all very simple sometimes I see customers trying to make vastly complicated diagrams so they take you know they'll model things out and archimate and you'll look at a diagram it has 20 different kinds of artifacts on it it's all the all these different stereotypes everything's lined up all these different kinds of relationships the problem with a very complic at diagram is no one knows how to read it so if you have if you have um diagrams please keep them as simple as possible keep maybe one two three types of object on there very simple relationships and that will really help you to see the trends and make and enable you and others to make decisions from those diagrams um and it also means that you can create the diagrams quickly so the data that you're going to have pouring in is going to be different it's going to be a different Cadence to how it used to be you know some organizations it used to be that you you spend um six months Gathering data and creating models and then spend the next six months updating them and that would be your Year's Cadence for Enterprise architecture what we're suggesting here is that you can use the now platform to update on a daily basis your Enterprise architecture and to maintain those views you don't want over complicated diagrams so keep things as simple as possible and that keeps your your architecture really live and vital so you can make strategic decisions straight from it so closing the circle um there's a quick question here before you get there can you discuss report outs of the architecture that support business conversations and maybe that's part of what closing the circle is um yes I will can can I answer that right at the end because I've got one more for it for it I just make a quick note right so um closing the circle so the csdm um toate mapping is Bridging the Gap it's going to help you to bridge that gap between um the now platform um and Enterprise architecture it's helping you to map the data from the cmdb consistently uh within your Enterprise architecture artifacts um so using the platform to update the Enterprise architecture repository is going to take away a lot of the manual data Gathering effort while also enabling the current State architecture to reflect a near realtime view of your Enterprise landscape um and of course the the wonderful thing about doing this it's it's going to if you use it the platform in this way if you map into arate and then into Enterprise architecture you're elevating the use of the now platform you're taking it from being yeah an excellent operational platform and that manages your business and all the operations that are happening there it's taken it from that to the next level it's going to become a key strategic asset one that can help to build your architecture to coordinate transformation to give visibility of your landscape and help you to make key strategic decisions about the future of your Enterprise so uh with that in mind I'm going to give you some free resources so get your get your phones out and take your QR codes and here's some free stuff for you um and while you're doing that I'll answer the question so um what views can you create to support business conversations um right so there are the the the things that you want to support business conversations tend to be the less technical diagrams so you leave the application diagrams to one side and your data flows that's not so useful the things I find help most in the business level um are uh stream analysis and business capability mapping so um what you're looking for is diagrams which are as simple as possible and which which describe the business and try and make it as as efficient as possible um your business capability map um will show exactly what your business is able to do um if you can create value streams from that um so end to end value stream this is what our business does it's higher up than a process um so um if you are if you're looking to do a transformation I always recommend that people do value stream analysis because it means that you can do a transformation while isolating a core part of you just within um a core part of your business and leaving everything else undisturbed so um HR for example if you're doing onboarding um rather than looking across the business and saying we're going to look for all the low hanging fruit and start taking out all the applications that we don't need anymore and basically causing disruption across the whole landscape you can say we're going to just look at onboarding and we're going to look that whole value stream end to end and that means that the rest of the organization can continue undisturbed while you look at that one value stream um where you map Which business capabilities are are using um are contributing each of those steps which teams contribute what the processes are which applications you currently have and then you can say which parts of the now platform could be used to do this instead how could we automate across the now platform for that entire end to end value stream um and then you can do a full rationalization across that um and move everything cleanly you you can set up that that full automated U value stream and then transfer when it's ready to go so that's the kind of view I find most useful for business when you're you're showing exactly how um the technology and the changes you're recommending are going to affect the business straight off and simple diagrams with um as fewer connections as possible any other questions I don't think I'm really seeing one that's another question here um from the comment uh if you got any questions feel free to ask them out loud now if not we'll wrap up and close I have one um and thank you for that that was an excellent presentation um so when you're talking about application Families versus applications how are you linking those within uh the cmdb and how are you linking those within archimate I'll give you an example so if we have an application portfolio epic or or Microsoft and we want to label an application family where we can kind of pull these kind of group them all together in need one umbrella but link them to the individual applications that are being represented in the environment um how would you do that internally to the cmdb and how would you do that within arate um so how would you connect together different applications with an archimate is that what you're asking yes in okay in terms of product FR families so I think what you described is an application landscape diagram um you identify the applications within your landscape um so let's say if you know them then fine if you don't then you can do Discovery uh which will gather those and then you can push them from the cmdb into an Enterprise architecture tool um and then it's a question of how do you want to map those so if you want to map them by uh function you could do that um so it might be you know all the all the things that do security all the things that do yeah pick a function um you can gather them that way and just just list them within those boxes that's a good way of doing it or you can show how they connect together and the information that flows between them that would be an information uh an application communication diagram and both of them are are Toph use um but very easy to draw out an archimate you just use an an application object to describe your application and an information flow um relationship between the objects if you wanted to show the communication another one that I do a lot is applications to capabilities to see where you have duplication and redundancy in your environment but I I think the question is illustrating one of the points the article is is was was created to kind of make which is there there may not be 100% symmetry in the the the the model used in arim and CSM there there's going to have to be some assumptions or some gray area you you know a family in in service now APM could be multiple things in the archimate language there is no direct mapping it's not it doesn't say family in both both uh both sides so there is there is some openness for interpretation and depending on your use cases and uh you know I think I think Michelle you went through like three or four different options for that um so that that that that is where some of the integration challenges would occur as you start mapping these between different Frameworks and and try to integrate the tools that use them great and then one final one is um can you give me a good examp or definition for an application um no so every everybody has a different definition of what an application is so sometimes you know the only thing I can suggest is look up the um the archimate definition and or the definition in the white paper that that they'll line up um people Define um applications differently and it can so yeah you can have an application that can just be a piece of software that gets used by users very simple definition but then there's other things that could exist in there as well so some people might describe a macro as an applications some people might you know uh have U an Excel spreadsheet that they use as as as a shortcut to get data from one thing to another now is is just that spreadsheet now counted as an application um so um it can vary and my recommendation would you know also there there's there's system software so there some software that you don't actually access separately but it's there to support larger pieces of software and it's essential to have it there so it comes down to how you want to manage this stuff it comes down to your decision as an Enterprise architect so um the the best thing I can suggest is that you put together your meta model of your organization and you define what you want your different levels of of application to be um bear in mind as well that some tools will you know might charge you differently depending on what you define as an as an application so um be strategic in what you define as an application and what you want to manage as an application and what you might want to manage as system software separately so we and this question could go on we could have had a full session on different parts and shapes of application and how it Maps into csdm and how it Maps into um archimate so so I think we'll we'll take that offline and consider possibly deeper Dives on that for the future um once again thank you for coming uh this is recorded the recording and the presenters um presentations will be available on the Digital Services Forum um as per always thank you everybody want to get uh give back time thank you thank you to our present ers