all right well welcome everyone to today's process mining Academy session uh the Vancouver release is now out and generally available which means we have a whole new set of topics we can do Academy session songs which is great because sometimes it's a little bit of a challenge to making up a new topic every week or every month now in Vancouver we took two big steps forward in our mission to provide our customers end-to-end process visibility we've added the ability to import external process data into the platform and apply our process mining capabilities to it and we'll be covering that in our next session currently scheduled for October 20th so you won't want to miss that one that's a topic that was in high demand um and this session right we've we've also added coverage for strategic portfolio management or more commonly known as SPM to a lot of our customers this was one of the most asked for enhancements as we've started to discuss process mining with our customers over the last year and a half or so and we're lucky enough today to have James Ramsey a product management director in the SPM business unit with us to help cover the topic but before we get to get to James um the main course right let's quickly get some of the logistics out of the way first thing I just want to mention that once again I'll probably do this for a couple sessions not just for you but also for me as of the Vancouver release process optimization has been renamed to process mining so you'll start to see inside of the in the documentation in your instances in the community everywhere you would you would have seen process optimization in the past you'll start to see the term process mining show up so just be aware of that when you start searching for things you can start searching for process mining servicenow or servicenow process mining that's the newer content is going to be labeled with that now the purpose of these sessions that'll help us all get better educated on servicenows and platform process mining capabilities we're going to provide how to's practical guidance use cases product updates like we're doing today and as a group we'll just gather together here to exchange ideas and collaborate so we all continue to get better how the sessions work we'll have a scheduled topic that we usually cover for the first 30 minutes or so then we open it up for questions on that topic for the session then we open it up for questions above and beyond today's topic sort of like on office hours these sessions all get recorded and eventually posted on the community site and it's probably where you you found the link to this one then finally uh when you're posting your questions put them in the Q a section where you know we'll do our best to answer as many as we can live here today but for situations where we don't have an answer to your question immediately we follow up and we post an article or something on the community site um and then maybe sometimes we actually use it for future sessions now this is the slide that says anything we say and do here today can't be held against us in the court of law it's also the slide that says hey as part of this conversation if we make any forward-looking statements about what might be coming in future releases you should take them as such make no decisions based on them whatsoever because they'll always subject to change and I'm assuming at this point you've read all the fine prints now many of you that come before know me my name is Dan Grady I'm part of the product management team for our process mining solution here at servicenow but today we're lucky enough to have a special guest um and James you want to take a minute just to introduce yourself yeah thanks Dan hi everybody uh I'm James Ramsey I'm part of the product management team for our strategic portfolio management and application portfolio Management Solutions on the platform I've been with service now for the best part of the last eight years specifically focused around uh SPM and I've sort of been in this industry space for the last 25 years awesome thank you James we'll hear a lot more from James in just a little bit now what we'll do here today we'll do a quick process mining 101 then I'll turn it back over to James to dive deep into process mining for strategic portfolio management I'll cover some high level slides I'll jump into a live demonstration of the solution then we'll open it up for your questions and then we'll wrap up with some additional resources to help you get started above and beyond the session here today as always the quick process mining 101 for our newcomers so with with everything we do there's a designed and desired path in our minds for how it should work and how things should play out whether it be planning a session like these Academy sessions or a business process and when you design things you design for both completeness and efficiency to provide the best experience possible for as many people as possible now unfortunately what we design isn't always what ends up playing out in reality right the reality is that not all work is going to be flowing through the optimal path and that's going to have a negative impact on the experience that both people requesting service or are having as well as the people that are working the process now identifying what is actually happening within our business processes and then improving them isn't always obvious or easy what in platform process mining allows us to do is use the audit log data that is generated as records move through a given workflow on the servicenow platform we use that data to create a visual representation of what is actually happening within the process and this new level of visibility helps us accelerate our ability to identify inefficiencies non-conform process activities and ultimately just Improvement opportunities so process mining gives us the ability to answer process questions that have historically been very challenging for us to tend to answer so whereas traditional analytics will allow us to answer a lot of the what questions about our processes process mining helps us answer the whys so things like where is the process getting stuck where is there potentially unnecessary rework happening where are things ping pong between groups and where aren't we conforming to the process that we've designed these are all things that have been historically difficult for us to answer and then act upon but they're now available in a couple of clicks and we like to say that process mining is going to get you to the why behind all of your kpis and in doing so it's going to empower everyone involved in the process to make data driven decisions about which improvements to make yeah today James will be helping us understand how Process Management help us understand process money's value when we look to apply it to work streams aligned to strategic portfolio management or SPM with that I'll just pass it over to you James to kind of take us on the tour thanks Don let me share my screen and let me share the slides right then so as Dan alluded to right at the beginning over the last 12 or so months have been lots of clamor for the ability to apply process mining to the Strategic portfolio management and hopefully in the the introduction slide I'll I'll showcase why why that is apparent now we're going to look at first of all is just to bring everybody to the same level of what strategic portfolio management is and why it's important so let's start with the the why it's important first and I'm just going to use a quite a well-known quote from Garner there are essentially they're saying by 2025 all those organizations are engaged in digital transformation activities they're actually going to find that 70 of the digital Investments those digital initiatives are they're trying to deliver are not going to live up to their expected business applications and one of the key reasons behind that is the opposite absence of them taking a strategic portfolio management approach and in essence the problems come from uh organization having a defined strategy of what they want to do but actually the things that they end up executing and delivering are often not aligned to what they did they Define as strategic priorities in the business so we have a look on the platform a capability we call Strategic portfolio management it's resin better in terms of what we're trying to achieve is to enable our customers to ensure that they're delivering the right business outcomes the things that are aligned to their strategic priorities with confidence by enabling them to align and manage all of their work associated with delivering those strategic initiatives together in one place on the platform and it's that element of all money all types of work linked to strategy on a single platform which makes the process mining use case particularly important from it from a service network context so if you think about there's three main pillars from a strategic portfolio management perspective strategize the alignment which is all about prioritizing all of the requests and all of the work into a roadmap that we're going to deliver on and then the delivery of the word so that we get the the customer whether that's internal or external with it with the right level of value now when I'm talking with customers about strategic portfolio management and how I how we apply it to their organization I typically talk about having a connected end-to-end process so if you think about it we're looking at um end-to-end strategy all the way through to service and delivering value every stage with inside that life cycle and we're doing that all on the platform and the aim is to deliver the value to our customers internal or Excel as quickly as possible and that value is delivered whether we're delivering products Services applications or programs whatever maybe then what we look at is how do we connect that into it how do we connect strategy all the way through to execution and do we and we close that Gap now what I'm not going to spend on on today's session a long time explaining this particular slide but hopefully they'll see as we start from a strategic planning perspective and we link those strategic conversations with our architecture community that stimulates demand and requests and ideas coming from all over the organization which we then lead into our alignment processes as we determine what we want to deliver that enables us to plan our backlog of work and that could be anything whether it's a traditional project agile work scale agile or a hybrid of course and ultimately we then deliver that as quickly as possible and for technology driven changes we're linking and connecting with our service teams through release and change management and also connecting with our devops teams and ultimately we're closing the loop by capturing our benefits and our metrics and feeding those into continuous improvements but the key element of all of our end-to-end processes is continuous we continually plan our strategies I had the changes in marketing business priorities were continually refining our roadmaps that we're delivering on and our teams are continually working on delivery now as you can see from that end to end interconnected end-to-end process which is perfect from a process mining perspective but you also as you're looking here there are also many processes or sub-processors within the end-to-end the one we'll look at today is around the demand intake process as we take requests maybe from a service Castle world or for a demand portal or we capture ideas from The Innovation portal how we feed those into our Central demand pipeline look to approve them and then feed those into into planning so as we look at from at least from a process mining context there are lots of areas from an end-to-end perspective where process mining will help us and we find and optimize the process so we can speed that time to Value to our customers Okay so Vancouver this is where we've introduced process mining for strategic portfolio management and what we're doing in the initial rollout of the design banking where we're providing a Content back around one of the processes I mentioned on their demand management so we've inside that content pack it's going to enable our customers to quickly and an effort to map out what's happening with inside the demand management process in order to identify what's going on identify where we've got problem areas and from that identify opportunities for improvement one of the added benefits of releasing this new content pack for demand management is it also opens up processed mining for the entire end-to-end process flow on strategic portfolio management that I showed on the previous slide something that was not available to customers prior to Vancouver so it's a really important step that we're taking in helping organizations look at how we can refine and optimize their delivery of change in innovation now looking at it from a demand management perspective as I mentioned in Vancouver we see the release of the new content pack part of that content pack looks at um from a summary and insights perspective so providing a specific dashboard on that dashboard we've got defined out of the box goals and kpis obvious so you can add in additional kpis as as you want to do and we're also providing some example finding rules in terms of how we look to identify Improvement opportunities so looking to establish where demands are going through the process and going through repeated rework Loops maybe where we're actually taking a demand and converting it into a project without having going through an approval all sorts of uh areas which we need to Stamp Out on because that's not a digging to what that would be designed or designed path would be through the solution so something on insights gives us a real good start in terms of understanding where we can optimize the demand management process and the other element to think about is in terms of as we're doing remaining of the process so let's imagine I'm looking at my demand management process as it stands today in September 2023 as I've done my analysis I may identify one or two Improvement initiatives that we want to take in order to improve some of the things we found from a bottleneck perspective having implemented those Improvement initiatives I might then want to go on mine again against my demand management process in October and I then can do a comparison of my my process with inside September and October I.E after we've implemented our improvements to see what any changes have been made so it's really great in terms of being able to see that incremental Improvement that we're able to make on these individual processes now what I'm going to do now is come out at PowerPoint and let's actually jump in and show you what this looks like in inside Vancouver so let me just maximize my browser so as part of um Vancouver as I mentioned the content part is around optimizing our demand management process so I've created a Project based on that content so I'm just going to click on the tile and that's going to take me into the uh optimize demand management optimization and we're going to look at the dashboard so as we can see at the top here we provided uh some example out the box um kpis so I can clearly see what my active demands look like flowing through the process and as a as an actual process flow this is one of the key process flows across the service now platform if you think about all the different types of requests that can come in so there's lots of traffic will go through this process on the right hand side I've got an analysis in terms of telling me how long things have remained open with inside the demand Pipeline and the fact that this is on an upward trajectory is slightly worrying to me because what you don't want to see is lots of Demands hanging around in your domain pipeline for too long because it means you're never going to get the value from them so this dashboard starts to give that that great Insight immediately about there's something wrong with this particular process now in the top here I can see having run the mining over my example data I've got 215 demands that have been included with inside the scope of what we're mining here and I can already see that I thought that's 215 demands we've already got 22 different routes that demands are taking through my crosses which obviously cannot be good for an organization wanting to standardize money to optimize the flow of work for the process so clearly there's work to be done now if I scroll down uh the dashboard and we look at this area here from an improvement initiative perspective of The Proven mortgage Improvement opportunities perspective should I say we're providing some out-of-the-box founding rules specifically targeted around the demand management process so as demands come into service now they typically have a draft status and they will then be and be submitted and they'll then they'll go through a series of states in their life cycle so they may go to a screening State whereby we request subject matter your experts across the organization to come in and provide their input once they've gone through screening it may go to well it should go to a qualified State and it's at the qualified state where we're actually looking to review this particular demand think of a demand as a like a business case to do something we're going to have estimates around course and estimates of our own resources that we want to do for this particular activity and the demand itself may be a request to do a project it may have been requested of some small operational work it may be requests to work for a team so all demands cover all different types of work that could be requested once we're qualified and that qualified we're either going to reject or we're going to approve and then from that we're going to convert that demand into maybe a project or a an epic if we're looking at from agile perspective or a change request if it's an operational request and we will link it into service management so in order to mine through that that end-to-end process these finding rules and then looking for the exceptions which one I find so for example I want to understand levels of rework that are happening so imagine I've I've put in my my request it's gone through screening it's got to the qualified step and they've not been able to prove it because I've not provided all the information needed for the approval decision maybe I missed off my my cost estimates or something like that and it has to go all the way back to the draft state so I want to understand how many times we're going through that in that rework Loop and what how many demands are subject to that iterative nature I might want to understand if I've got a demand and somebody actually totally bypasses the approval route and automatically turns my demand into a project when people start working on the project without it being approved I want to know about that so that's going to be a breach of our SLA process not conform into our overall role in the organization or I might want to understand where things have actually been approved but they've not actually gone through the detailed qualification steps so nobody's actually run and reviewed the business case alongside everything else to determine we need to go through somebody just rubber stamped it so again I need I need to understand all of that so these are examples of those filing rules we provide out the box and I like to looking at improvements around Improvement conformance and and improving performance across the process so let's pick one of these as an example to start with so I'm interested in this rework because if I can reduce rework I can get through things through faster so as you can see average duration of the rework is at 11 months for a bit demand in the demand pipeline which is obviously not very good so let's go and let's view that particular rule with it with inside the analyst workbench yeah so as we can see on here I've got two demands that are full foul of this particular room and I've just looked at my breakdown here and we categorize demands in different categories so here I can see I've got strategic and operational demand so one of each going through this process and I can clearly see as something comes in from a draft perspective going through screen as it gets to screen it goes to qualified and then those two and qualified actually coming back into draft so I can see I've got that that rework room something I need to do something around and maybe I might start out and identify an improvement initiative that I want to move forward with but let's clear that and now I'm looking at all of my 215 demands going through the process and I can see on here now breaking that down by category I've got 203 strategic demands seven which are operational some for procurement and some for training but as you can imagine you can have different categories our key element then I can then see as I'm looking at this is all the detail around what's going through the demand process and as I click on various States I can understand where things are going so graphed either going in directly to screen or going to submit it if we go look at some method we might be coming interestingly coming back into uh into graphs obviously there's a there's an issue there and a look at the qualified element I can see when we're making those qualified decisions we can see some areas are creating projects I.E moving forward and others are being deferred maybe we're going to look at that that later on but that's giving me that great analysis in terms of what actually happening to those 250 demands going through the process and as you can see at the moment a bit of a mess because of all of those different routes that are currently being taken so obviously we need that Improvement initiative to look at how we can streamline these various activities from a bottleneck perspective and look in terms of where we can see our overall bottlenecks with inside that particular process so that gives you that that Viewpoint in terms of that out of the box um content pack looking at that demand management process and giving you that ability to quickly and easily identify where we've got these various different issues and being able to very quickly go and analyze and look at what those what those issues are so that's there as of Vancouver now one of the things that interested me as soon as I started working with process 9 was not only looking at it from a demand management perspective but let's look at it at a wider element let's look at it from a from an end-to-end perspective so because we now can apply process mining across all of the SPM process as as per that slide I showed this is just a quick example of something I've set up which is looking in terms of the insulin floor from I've got an idea as in that as we look at those ideas the ones I want to progress I might turn those into demands we're going to build a business case around as we approve those demands I want to execute them and start delivering them I might create a project now one of the elements with inside service now is the ability to manage a work of different Source now one of the types of work which is very popular across the the user Community is what we call hybrid projects which are traditional waterfall projects with a mix of agile within them so but in that so what we're looking at here is I've my projects here will be hybrid projects and for those hybrid projects we'll have Stories being created which are going to be then worked on by the development teams so with inside process mining what I'm able to do is connect that end to end so from that initial idea all the way through to the stories that I delivered so if I start to build this out we can look now in terms of let's reduce the size of that a little bit so we can see I've got my 18 ideas now I can see those ideas are related to different products I can see that information here so I can see it as as the ideas come in and the flaws they're taking and I can say I've got an interesting Loop in terms of those ideas as they come in being reviewed need more information going back around any specific Loop so I can see all of that now as we make the decision in terms of wanting to move that idea forward I can create a demand from those ideas and that will then feed into my demand process and we can see how those seven ideas we've moved forward now flow through into our demand process and I can see summer bypass the submitted staging on straight screening I can see some from qualified have already gone back into drafted so we've got that repeat Loop that we were looking at before but as then I got a qualified and improved but then creating our project so if I can move my project box down and down here you can see then see the relationship with the demands that we've been created and the projects that have then been created from those seven demands and now projects rather than working through a state model like um drafts work in progress Etc what we're looking at from a project standpoint is actually the phases that the project will go through initiating planning executing controlling so I can see exactly where those projects are and then finally I can look at it in a true end-to-end style I can see for all of those projects close with me I can see all of the stories that have been created for those projects and now being worked through from so I can now see from from the development teams how as they're now working on those stories of Nine Stories through their various process model for delivering their stories relating back to the project project so this will give then give me a true end-to-end picture of how we're delivering an idea from an initial from that initial idea all the way through defining what we want to deliver to the actual execution and the delivery from the development teams through end-to-end with insight and process mining project which gives me that ability then to look at how we can optimize that end-to-end and understand where the various bottlenecks are okay so I hope that's given you a flavor for it why we're all very excited of including process mining with strategic portfolio management and the obvious advantages that this gives by being able to manage that end-to-end process altogether on the single platform done I think I'll hand back to you now before my voice keeps out I was going to check to make sure you were okay there for a second uh that super impressive very awesome like I'm so excited and I am positive that uh all the customers that were asking for this capability um are excited as well or we'll be excited once they get to see what you just showed there not just from a demand perspective but also that that end to end view I think that is um a fantastic capability or a way to receive things from an organizational perspective now so just open it up if you've got questions about anything that James just covered there if you want to throw those into the Q a um portion or put them in the chat whatever that you might want to do um but then there we'll do our best to answer them while you're thinking about your questions and and posting them into the the chat or the QR q a um I'll just kind of position some additional resources above and beyond what we covered here today so there isn't for those of you that are not aware there is an on-demand training course on the now learning site for process mining it is still named process optimization Essentials we're working on the rename there so if you go to the now learning site check out or search for process optimization Essentials that you'll find the course there is a white paper that we've put out there and we obviously use process mining here at servicenow for about I think it's over 40 processes now that we've mined and found some improvement opportunities within but we've detailed our journey from a process mining perspective in a white paper we talked about some of the use cases and findings in that white paper so check it out if you're interested in seeing how we've done it there is a community Forum that has now been renamed the process mining Community form so if you if you're searching on community for process binding content look for the process mining form that just got renamed yesterday I think obviously you're you're here so you know about the process mining Academy um this is I believe our 18th Academy session so there's 17 other sessions that dive into other areas whether it be process mining for field service management or how to use the histogram that's inside of the the process mining workspace or how to create your first project or how to use uh different filtering techniques there's tons of different sessions out there to help you get more familiar and comfortable with the different capabilities process mining has to offer we've started a process mining use case series um so what we've learned as we've started to go through process finding exercises with different customers so that it's a new muscle for many of us I mean you know while there's powerful capabilities within the solution how to apply those to answer specific questions that might be having about different inefficiencies like doing SLA breach analysis or looking for work that's taking longer to Route than resolve or doing specific intake Channel analysis we've started to post five minute recordings that walk through how to use the solution to do those types of analyzes so that's out there on the community side as well um and then there's a really good live on now session that we did called getting started with servicenows and platform process mining that walks through the different plugins you need to turn on how to create your first project all the different building blocks that you need to know about to get started with the solution uh so tons of content out there for you to get started or dig a little bit deeper above and beyond today um if you're interested so let's go back and we'll just check the Q a um so happy to hear it Kelly uh just one it's not really a question it's a comment but uh they're uh Kelly is saying that she's super excited for um process mining for SPM because they're going to be implementing SPM in October so really uh really happy to to hear that one um let's see next question is how long will this recorded uh how long will it take for the recording to get online uh Dave I'll have this recording out there probably I've got a couple of calls right after this one by the end of today it'll be up on the community site by the end of today the slides will also be attached and posted to that Community post the same page that you went to uh the process is certain you can search up servicenow process money Academy that'll take you to the page in which all the prior sessions and the recordings are available as well as this one and we'll have it out there by the end of today looks like uh Romans got his hand up Roman I don't know if yeah can you hear me then I can hear you yeah great thanks I just wanted to ask if I can pose my question like this because uh walking the stories if it's hard yes you're hiking so feel free to ask um I I really I really like this uh end-to-end view that you created but why stopping with development and deploying things why not going on to operations and the operations processes until you do chargebacks so you have the whole cycle from idea creation um coming into your business model and uh making a real business from the from the chargeback side and also how are you working with um ideas that you need to cut back so as not to hinder or or bring problems into a product roadmap I'll address probably the first one and then James maybe I'll lean on you for the second one a little bit um but the the reason why we didn't go all the way through is simply just a demo design thing there's no okay nothing technical stopping you from doing that it is one of the the Beautiful Things um about having this on the platform itself uh is that you have all the in the data that you need and the connections are already linked within the data um so creating a visualized process map of looking how all these things are tied together it's something that you can do relatively quickly um I'm going to say minutes but uh if uh you know if you're brand new to how to build out the multi-dimensional maps it may take you 30 minutes right but um it's huge one of the biggest advantages to using our in-platform process mining solution is the fact that we have access to the data already um system of record actually yeah that's uh speed and then I don't know James if you had any thoughts about the the second half of that question yeah I'm so one of the things on on the internet we looked at there was just a really quick example and it was literally minutes to connect ideas all the way through through the stories I see so in terms of like flood you know the product roadmap you know if I'm planning a product road back in the no source of activities one of the other process floor areas and we can look to introduce into that model is a new one we've also introduced in Vancouver around the product feedback model if you if you think about all the different types of feedback you might get and from wherever that may come from ideas or from emails and all that sort of stuff that can all now filter through in the process sort of go through a feedback I review sort of consolidation and then we look at product planning and then feed that into our decision model before we determine what products we're going to develop and what we're going to get the teams to work on so all of that can be fed into this this process as well yeah the reason why I'm asking this is because everyone sells their fast forward idea implementation path but nobody thinks about uh what about cutting back on things because business can grow shrink you have maybe um you detour your your product roadmap to some new other other parts and this is seldomly shown actually so this was the reason for my question and that um the whole the whole topic around looking to optimize what you're delivering is is really what you portfolio management is about so if you think in terms of we you'll have a plan currently of what you want to deliver and then all of a sudden um we've got a changing priority we're having to um we're cutting budgets we're moving people from one area the business is somewhere somewhere else in the business and as a result you haven't got the capacity to deliver so what strategic portfolio management is about is enabling you then to look at and identify various options of what your plan could look like based on your known constraints around capacity funding timing and also relationships to things like architecture so that yeah like like simulation and the variation analysis and all this stuff right yeah we call this scenario planning and okay and that allows us to optimize so one of the things that when process mining fits into this is looking at how we can enable the organization to be to be more agile with a small a in terms of being adaptive to change by optimizing those processes around how we look at optimizing our product roadmap and doing that scenario planning so there's there's lots of benefits of that process might it can can give into specific areas of the the overall answering process well thanks thank you James we have another question that I'm going to let you tackle because I I think I just want to make sure we get it right um this uh process mining for strategic portfolio management uh it's not included with SPM Pro correct yeah it's an add-on to SP improve perfect and I thought but I just wanted to make sure I wish I was sure all right any other questions uh put them in the Q a if you you can all right if uh not let's see what I've got here next in the slides ah what's next perfect um so this was one of the newer enhancements that we added in the Vancouver release the coverage for SPM um another really important enhancement in in Vancouver is the ability for you for customers to import external process data and apply our process mining capabilities to that so for example let's say you're using a smart recruiters for recruiting and tracking your your hiring process there we can extract external the audit log data from that system in a certain format provided to a servicenow in Excel or a CSV import it through a wizard-like process and then visualize it with the process mining solution that you just saw so we'll be covering that in our next session scheduled for October 20th and we'll walk through the entire process of loading up data and and Mining it it's very very straightforward uh in November the plan right now is to cover another Vancouver enhancement called automated findings um so as up until Vancouver you saw James show some examples here today around those Improvement opportunities that we provide out of the box and the content packs that are very rule-based um where you can configure hey I want to find all the records that meet this criteria well you can also look at processes and find things in an automated fashion there's a lot of common inefficiencies for example rework right something goes from Step A to B to C back to a well we can flag those automatically for you now with our automated findings or ping pong things go from A to B to A to B to a right we flag those automatically for you and you can configure it to look at things that have extra steps in the process so I have one process variant a b c d f and then I have another variance that is very close but has one additional Step A B C D E F I want to compare those two and see what the impact of that extra step on the process is so these automated findings are something that are new inside of the Vancouver release so in that November session we'll dig into how to configure those and take it advantage of those and then uh to wrap up the year we'll have a session on process mining for create a workflow so a lot of customers have asked hey we've built some custom applications we'd love to apply process mining to those applications can you help me understand how to go through that so we figured we'd get a recording out there as well so those are the the the sessions that we have on the schedule obviously if we get an influx of questions about a certain topic this is always subject to change we want to make sure we're catering to our customers asks but these are the things that we've got planned right now all right last chance for romance any additional questions that are out there anything else you want to chat about before we wrap up for the for this for the day uh if if you allow uh just a funny note your untangling of the loops which you call rework isn't there a more modern word for it like collaboration untangling of the the rework yeah I guess yeah just because you mentioned this uh like uh breaking up the loops for rework I just just uh reminded me of people always talking about collaboration which is like a high frequency back and forth of exchange of information so which is also a loop actually yeah yeah it's it can be that it can be um a quality issue where you've got uh let's say tickets that are being reopened on a regular basis I could I know I know I just wanted to make fun sorry sorry okay all right Roman perfect anyone else if not James thank you so much for your time here today it's always good to have the expert on a process uh cover process mining for that process rather than me sometimes stumbling through it being able to put that lens of somebody who lives and breathes those processes on a regular basis is really important from a process finding perspective so really thank you again for taking the time to do this for us well thank you for reminding me John and I find process really exciting capability awesome all right well with that uh thank you everybody we'll see you uh next time thank you great talk