[Music] hey fellow servicenow devotees get ready to embark on a journey through the fascinating realm of servicenow with none other than the service docs themselves I'm James Downes and I'm Rush here whether you're new to servicenow pre-aspin veteran or just a curious Soul we're here to bring you servicenow Curiosities exhilarating interviews and don't forget the infamous A to Z game but mostly it's about the random ramblings of two middle-aged guys with a funny story or to tell right yeah true the Ducks are ready the mics are on can't wait to have you join us let's Dive In [Music] hello and welcome back to season two of the service docs podcast I'm excited James I know me too me too it's all changed I say all change we're still the same yeah we've survived we're on season two seasons yes I guess it's a good opportunity to say thank you for everyone who's tuned in and watched our episodes through season one people have shared and liked and commented and followed us on LinkedIn and all the socials uh yeah we definitely appreciate it and we definitely need more of that coming on as well in this season absolutely and and and you're forgetting if you haven't yeah listen to it go back to the back catalog there's exciting things in there such as top tips for for bagging a gig and you know what do you do in the first 90 days what else have we got we've got some uh the alphabet quiz the first alphabet quiz that we did at Christmas there's loads of stuff let's go and check it out yeah if you could want to know so what are we doing on this episode just to give you a bit of a teaser we are going to be talking about well James and I are gonna think about our inspirational people in our career right and this was an idea I came up with and I kind of surprised James with it as I do with many of these topics however there are kind of rules to this right you've got to pick three inspirational people that have inspired your career so far see and I don't think you're allowed to pick historical figures no actual people say my mum or my dad yeah you're not allowed they're actual people they've got to be in the career you're not allowed to take things like Homer Simpson either or anything like that I believe that children are the future unless we stop them now okay they've got to be real real people um that's made a difference that has made a difference but before we get on to that we've been doing some really exciting stuff for season two because yeah what happens when I'm just throw it out there that people won't know is we kind of ramp down on season one right and we did that to give James and I a bit of a break a bit of a reset you know we've got things like summer holidays in the um in the UK so we've spent a bit more time with uh the family we'll get on to that in a minute yeah but it doesn't all stop for us because no just because we're not recording we've probably been talking more haven't we it's not really been a break because it's almost like we've been so excited about getting season two stuff out there and being so planned and being actually professional um you know just to be ready for this season we'll talk more yeah yeah that's it we we have taught more and we've I mean we're I'm just thinking where we're going to post this so by the time you've listened to this we've already dropped a couple of episodes that we've recorded with interviews so season two we're spinning it a little bit and trying to get more um people from the industry on chat with us and just just generally have a bit of fun right yeah um yeah so the ones you you've probably seen so far we've um got um Jeremy Duncan um in terms of the uh certified Master architect and we spoke to uh Lauren McMullen [Laughter] do you know what it is right do you know what it is I don't want to so I would go full hog I'd really commit and say Lauren Manningham mcmanningham that's what I would go for I think she'll accept that name going forward but um that's do you know why because that's Liverpool back in the 90s Steve McMann oh mcmenaman yes yeah I can't say there's certain words I can't say so I tend to just kind of well I'll do but I don't know just Mumble just just anyway so so yeah we've already had those but um yeah but let's let's just come back to a little bit of familiarity as well let's talk about what we've been up to let's have a let's have a few minutes on that and then we'll get into the the inspirational um character slash people it's gone what have you been doing I already know what you've been doing but tell me tell me something hopefully you've held some stuff back kind of I mean yeah there might be some stuff but maybe you're not particularly aware of but it's been a busy one on it really it's been a really busy the last few weeks not just for the service Ducks but um you know both with with my my work and also with my kind of sideline work and that's where I'm going to start with because Line work yes [Laughter] here's my only fans link if you just click ing them um just before just before you go on there James I'm sorry to interrupt me but but we did say we did toy with the idea that if we get to a thousand followers in the next week then we will do a Christmas episode completely in the buff no nobody agreed to that I've not seen the contract let's edit that out because that's a reason all of your followers like share subscribe um yeah so it's been it's been a busy week it's been it's uh it's been an interesting one um obviously we've been obviously this is probably gonna go out in a few weeks from now but um you would hopefully already seen a lot of Vancouver content already um so I have been busy um looking at the functionality behind the new Vancouver release um I've been doing a lot of kind of proof of Concepts and just trying out some of the new new functionality more specifically my favorite areas which is around low code no code um looking at app engine Studio looking at process automation designer so you'll see a few videos up on my YouTube channel uh link there only fans there um if you're interested in having a look at those just get up to speed in those areas by all means have a little watch um what else has been happening um other than that I think work wise I can tell you what I've generally been up to there um so recently we uh the work that I've been involved in with cmdb had gone live that was a few weeks back um very successful very good when I've kind of reached that point where you almost hand over operationally to a to a particular team who are going to be carrying the development effort on so maybe there's something that is good for another podcast episode in terms of agile and what to expect from Frisk than your team I like it release Cadence that is a good story format let's stop the conversation let's add it to our list yes I will do it now for us good good um going on episode we also talked before about um those have come through like the next gen program or those absolutely new to servicenow May well have been on training for something service no specific but then maybe they've not been involved in the likes of these kind of like projects and agile projects uh to know how they you know how they're set up Who's involved in them what are the steps um how do you get from designing something in Dev and then pushing it up to prod we've talked a little bit about update sets and things like that in the past but um we're not really talked about agile no well that that's that's it that's a do you know what that's a really good topic I I think actually we should do that on our next chatter right because yeah we've teased with it before where we were talking about this is um season one where we talked about uh the whole Rise Up Next Gen um and people going through that course and learning itsm or servicenow um and that's great from a technical level but yeah the methodology in which you deliver that technological solutions I don't know go with it yeah so I guess would you you wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't know how things generally are until you work for a customer or a party it's weird I mean pointing stories based on threes and fives doesn't make any difference what the hell is fibonaccially so that's a great one that is a great one yes I feel some mini kind of series maybe coming up on that but no that's a good one yeah that would be cool that'd be cool but yeah that's about it really just a lot of a lot of work um obviously doing prep and stuff for service dogs um work on my own channel I've just thought you know what else we did we've um we've ordered some merch we have this is exciting we've ordered so much in fact I'm not even going to tell you what it is right well I'm not going to tell no I mean anyone that's listening I'm not going to tell you because you already know you were there where we ordered it right but it's gonna be funny I think it's funny yeah serious note we're trying to we'd like to get more involved with um the community kind of face to face right because we we do this um podcast and we post the episodes out but we'd love to get involved in things like meetups or events I'm trying to get some um permission for so we've got the London uh now at work Happening Now Forum thing happening in October and we're trying to get the permission to go and do a podcast there and I think what format would that look like that would probably look like me and James Milling around the crowd interviewing um developers and administrators around tech consultants whatever just generally having a bit of a bit of fun yeah um so we're looking for that so if you know anyone um that can get us in on that great if not I think we're just going to do it myself anyway right regardless yeah we'll just do anyway there's a mic I'm just getting kicked out it'll be worth it ah that'll be fun so what have I been up to what have I been up to I make lists right because if I don't make lists I'm old and stressed um I have been working on item um event management stuff uh which is uh always exciting um for me anyway also been doing do you know what I haven't really delved in too much before that I'm getting more involved in is the digital portfolio workspace now I've obviously been I've done the whole uh service taxonomy stuff before um service ownership and service modeling going back years and years and years ago but two I know conceptually what it is in my head um and I know csdm uh quite well and we we did an episode on CSD I mean uh we did season one as well but the digital portfolio works but it's kind of contextualizes it and brings it to life in front of your face a bit for for people that don't necessarily understand it um or relational databases in their head right so it brings it all together um and it sounds quite a dull subject but actually when you see it yeah you can see everything's together so it's a place where you've got business services and service offerings together and you can you can quickly see all this is the commitment that's the availability this is the um the information about that service and this is who owns it and whatever and it just brings everything together in a nice sassy looking way right essentially the new SPM yes it's it's fairly new but it's something that I haven't really delved into too much before um that was quite quite nice you know yeah I thought I'd share that um oh no it's a nice note on a not so nice note in the UK when we're recording this it is summer holidays so what that means right is if you've got kids you've got six weeks of pure hell the kids are at home shouting and screaming I'm bored I'm bored I need this I want that and it's General with their demands um add that with this sounds like a right British moan add that with the weather we're having in the UK at the minute it's this annoys me right because if you live outside of the UK right if you said if we went to America and said what do you think uh what do you think Britain's like they'll just go oh it's always raining right yeah and it annoyed me because before you just came well that's not the case it rains no more decent weather yeah now if they say it you kind of gotta go yeah yeah anyway yeah it's very up and down and it's it is it's it's it's not great so you've got kids um on summer holidays indoors pestering because they can't get Outdoors because of the weather yeah anyone that's listening to this that is having to to go through the same kind of Journey that James and I are we're here for you with you you are our heroes we are all heroes together and there's only a few more weeks left so let's pull through this yes do it we can do it um so what else we're doing so we've got that um Vancouver little nibbles yeah we were on the Vancouver um webinar the other day weren't we um the thing that struck me and I've always said this to in the Laura interview was the the kind of enthusiasm and the banter that was going on while the webinar was going on um the dead Advocates like Chuck and and Lauren and and Earl are proud of don't get to see this that we have that banter um whilst whilst it's going on which I I love love to be honest with you my top pick has always been um the Callback action which may or may not be in Vancouver we don't know [Music] we still blame Lauren for that no no we can't do that um it is the call but uh the the go back to action um should I say sorry um and and that kind of brings us more along the lines of the whole um workflow rollback so yeah I think it's not the fact that I didn't listen to that thinking yes I'm going to use it all the time or yes I've had perfect scenarios over the last three years it's more what it represents it's more yeah it's moving us and it's got a Bittersweet really because I love a bit of old work yeah in workflow you could almost do whatever you want and then I think that's the problem with people coming over from workflow to flow thinking oh I can't do what I used to do or you know it was very open in terms of what you could do scripting-wise or whatever you want and when that's taken away when you go into flow that's a bit yeah they've got most of things there now um a loads of performance improvements which will stop you shouting at the screen so I know I I think that's exciting the right direction I think there'll be more to come on that as we progress through season two and there'll be more interviews as well so I don't want to spoil what we've got coming up what I will say make sure you're doing the whole following stuff and then you'll you'll find out about it yeah let's get back on topic because we're rambling um I'm gonna throw the Baton over to you the virtual ban to come up with three Inspira and you can do it one at a time or you can probably give me more back and forth I don't know three inspirational people that you will say are pivotal yeah to your career right now and that could be good or bad right so it could be people that you that could have been a boss that you had years ago that made you do something else you know what I mean yeah there's no uh it's not all um yeah good stuff good stuff yeah sorry okay all right um so my first my first person and there is a little bit of theme so I went with a good by the way so these three people and I'll just go with my first one first it's slightly I'm actually excited what if you don't know what's coming up I would say is well those you know listening to this as well maybe there's a good chance for you to think about this as well like how how the way I thought about this is how have I been um carved into the person I am now and obviously it's from certain experiences in the past when you pass jobs that you learn from um actually the first one may well be fit into that bad category maybe stop stop you're teasing the same names yeah I guess we say names yeah how else did you think this was going to work no I know but if it's a bad one and then we tag them in oh Christ yeah I didn't think about that regardless because it's turned out really well okay um right so the first person is not bad right is that right Fiona Simpson right Fiona Simpson you'll be like okay yeah so I used to work for capgemini um that's not pounding the jar but let's just you know it was Captain I wasn't service now related at all I worked on a help desk and um the theme with this is around um a trait for hard working so basically on the capgemini uh help desk that I was up in an Inverness in Scotland there was thousands of calls per day it was one of these kind of help desk places where you're expected to you know really rattle through phone calls and you know you're doing things that path and resets account unlocks Outlook stuff yeah um and it's just about getting off the phone as soon as possible answer the next one yes yes yes yes and been there obviously there's different management styles out there and I particularly maybe to begin with I didn't get on with this particular management style that Fiona had because essentially what Fiona used to do was just sit over your shoulder or stand over your shoulder sitting of your shoulders a bit weird yeah like Jiminy Cricket yeah like the little devil on your shoulder yeah and it's essentially whipping you not literally yeah but um to take more calls if she sees you and you've just hung up the phone you know she's on you immediately go take that calls there's people waiting there's people in queue should be shouting it's like a proper I don't know what'd you call it I don't know imagine like Wall Street you know how you got phones going on all the time it's like big buzz around you sort of thing yeah yeah yeah and I guess what that kind of drove into me is the kind of hard-working and ethic work ethic yeah because it was all about just answering calls from these people who are just trying to work and just log into their PC in the morning I had zero empathy at that time for them people but it was a case of you know Fiona managed to get out of me you know trying to be competitive and maybe do 100 calls per day or 120 calls per day and then that was a good day sort of thing so okay yeah so that was inspirational to me so it was about you know having someone really make me work hard okay work ethic work ethic okay are you going for your next ones or am I I'll pass over to you to do your photo are we going hang on we didn't really sit down The rules here right are we going from earliest to newest that is yeah essentially mine is yeah okay oh no I thought I had some in the bag um can I have four people yeah if you want to yeah oh God I thought I had four in the bag at three in the back right okay and it's just come to me as I go further back I'm gonna go right I'm ready I'm going to go with a manager I had when I was on the service desk when I was the team leader of the service desk and then service desk manager the uh Service delivery director uh Robert lipiac and I would consider him a good friend um I haven't spoke to him for a few years but I still would consider him a friend rather than a boss yep um only lives um the next Village along but he um was inspirational for me because he was very people orientated we're talking we're going back years and years and years years ago right and it was very tuned in very emotionally intelligent to get the best out of people and he led teams such as the service service desks the infrastructure teams even the developer teams at some point have no technical developer knowledge didn't know JavaScript or anything like that but knew how to get the best out of people you know what I mean right okay he taught me more the emotional intelligence side um the the the playing it fair side that in terms of good work life balance um and he was just a generally nice person yeah yeah so this is like opposite end of the scale to my Fiona Simpson a lot of people person get the job done this is more cuddly um you know we'll look after you I've got your back sort of thing well the thing is I mean cuddly cuddly I'm not sure cuddly is right because I think he's he's and I I I should draw more and I will say right it's inspirational not just for a work point of view but from a personal level right because yeah he was a very very calm person yeah I think his theory was that if you remain calm and you need to get angry or um not angry if you need to get Stern and um I can't think of the word but it's easy for people to understand that that something's really ticked you because if you're if you're always at the calm level and you go to this level people think well that must be serious you see what I mean but if you're constantly this this kind of um level of um I don't say ticked offness but you know what I mean yeah beating people and say oh do this I want you to do that all the time you've got nowhere to go you see what I mean so yeah yeah I think that so yes inspirational person number one for me number two who you go for Rob I love it so the second one is I think when I was 21 so this is when I moved from Scotland down to England for my very first job down here and um I worked for the NHS basically I was in like a shared services shared Services Agency where you just name dropping these things then aren't you come on yeah um well different NHS practices to do and ask for help and that sort of thing um and there was one particularly one particular person called Andy Wilkin and I think that's his name because it's been ages 21 by the way um but I think this is this was one on the personal level um and I think what I like about Andy Wilkin is the calmness under pressure um so we've been working on the phones and speaking to those you know nurses and people in a e who are like obviously they need their equipment up and running as soon as possible um they're going to be agitated they're going to be stressed they don't need someone some idiot on the other side of the phone call so basically Andy Wilkin um handed that really well and I think what I took from him as well is you know he's one of these people and I'm sure you'll have someone in your mind when I say this the is always positive no matter what happens to him yeah yeah he's always positive and what I would say he wasn't the most like popular person on like the desk it was very jovial it was very young in terms of having you know the people that were there um it may even had the Mickey taking home a few times um but regardless of that and he heard it regardless of that he was positive yeah and I loved that and I always stuck up for him because you know the way he just kind of dealt with it with a smile and just continued was brilliant um so yeah so it was it was about positive nature and being able to you know have that kind of empathy with customers when they're not having such a good day yeah positivity positivity and empathy oh so I I did an experiment this morning right so I I posted a quote on LinkedIn I don't usually post quotes I usually just put something of a Madman right but I posted a quote while I was looking for the right one because I thought what's relevant um I found one which kind of links back to what you're saying I probably won't do this um uh justice now but it yeah I think it was success is um continually failing without losing enthusiasm yeah and I think that was Einstein it could be uh could be Winston Churchill I don't know but it but it it's I think it's okay to to fail and build frustrating all the time um but not lose the enthusiasm for the for the goal you want to hear yeah and that comes in in uh with what we do right in Consulting descripting whatever yeah keep refactoring that code yeah yeah okay number two number two this is this is where it's going to get a bit um bit interesting right because I did have three I've now got four on the table I'm going to go with I'm gonna go back again so another old old yeah he probably is old now actually um manager um in the terms of Mark Evans I think he's still at the same company he came on board um as a contractor but that I don't know why I said that because why not why not yeah but in the scene yeah I said the scene so he's he I don't I don't know what he still is but the the was the global uh servicenow or itsm tool set manager for a large Global firm I'm not dropping them in James like you no you're not no um I may or may not have worked there possibly um but he was the the global um platform owner right and what he taught me was much to my frustration sometimes right so it was quite detailed attention to detail and that's not a bad thing not a bad thing yep um but what are you I'm gonna I'll give you a funny story in a second about this but he was quite happily get involved with other teams processes so I remember having a challenge with um you know the development team in terms of Geo reversive service now that age-old argument but he had no problems taking it on as his responsibility so well I'll I'll draw you up a straw man process about how we can work between servicenow and jira and how that works um so he's quite happy to get involved and he if he could see something and touch it and influence it then he would get involved rather than stand back and go well that's not my job you know what I mean yeah about taking I guess he taught me taking ownership of stuff I guess he's the point I'm making um and and how to to grab something with both hands and and kind of influence it as much as you can and and about slightly being picky right and I don't can't think of a better word details I'm going to say picky detail same thing yeah but I remember the ones and I I said this to him afterwards and I joked about it um but it is a core memory in my life right so we were configuring notifications in service now and it was about assets we wanted to send out to uh so requested might have a laptop or a mobile phone or whatever and we want to send them an email that says um congratulations not congratulations but your laptop has now been delivered right now in servicenow World we'd send we'd do a template wouldn't be notification template and we'd insert the name of the item so hey James your inserted name has that been delivered well he was that um he cared that much about customer experience he wanted it to be in the right uh context right so rather than he wanted me to create a variable on the item uh record with a drop down of a or an so I could pick that up in the text so so the text would read properly it would be dear James a laptop has been or yeah my iPhone that is impressive uh levels of and when he asked me to do it I I you know what I thought it was a joke um but it was more again it was more again I mean we didn't do it because he thought it was funny as well but it was more what it meant right it was like he cared that much that he didn't want customers to get something that was in yeah you should work in QA or testing but it's something that I carried on right it's something I've carried on that I I also care about that now um because of him and it because it was drilled into me so inspirational character number two Mark Evans for my last one so I'm gonna only stick with three there is a fourth that was in my mind but I think they would probably squirm a bit if I said their name um it's not you by the way um so my third one is someone and I'll pound in the jar DXE so um is Amy perbellini I don't remember if you remember working with Amy when you were at Dixie nope um so how many right this is this is an interesting question how many really really really good engagement managers slash project managers have you worked with I mean I mean sorry I'm not answering edit the question I'm kidding um I'm kidding I think everyone's got their their strengths and weaknesses in different areas right so yeah I'll put it with a few good answer um yeah but there's some like maybe Amy was completely different because I guess what I'm getting out with Amy is the organization skills I think to be a good engagement manager a project manager you almost need to you know um be involved in a lot of different things at the same time um as well as obviously managing the time and cost of the of the project so I think purely from a kind of customer communication um skills organization skills and the fact that she was involved with every single aspect of the project as in if I was developing something should know everything about it if it was a team of like five different developers should know everything that what they're up to as well and their timelines and checking into them and I think this is where this comes down to personal preference in terms of what you like some people like project managers or engagement managers to be actively involved sometimes I do I like them to be constantly on me if there's things that needs to be done as soon as possible or um you know I like that kind of management style almost micromanagement but not quite that level yeah yeah or there's others who like the more laid back types like you know just let them get on with it just let the developers develop we'll see what happens what will be interesting when we because we we've marked down agile to talk about as a topic but what really I guess it'd be interesting to talk about we won't do it now but what role does uh because you you mentioned engagement manager and project manager interchangeably in that conversation yes one only two separate rolls and two how does that work in the agile environment how do they how do they slot in yeah I didn't even mention it's Grandmaster either standard role uh or standard agile they don't right yeah so anyway we'll get into that topic but it'll be interesting one yeah okay the main thing that I learned from Amy really was preparation um and I learned a lot of this when I was when I came over to fruition Partners as a process consultant because before you do your workshops you have to prepare you have to know your subject you have to have all your PowerPoint presentations ready you have to have all your templates ready to go um you have to know about the customer and who they are and what they do absolutely and not just the Train on the way there oh yeah yeah and obviously we've all been there in terms of being you know utilized so much that there's no prep time for the next thing but if you want to be successful then you need that kind of prep time in there somewhere yeah so I guess it's that communication and organization skills that she can just pick up like that be able to spin so many plates it was just you know just impressive okay so you've got communication and organization from Amy yep okay right let me go let me go let me go and then we'll summarize because I think we've got key bullet points for each one right yeah yeah but I can't remember them all but I'm sure we'll get there yeah number three for me now oh you're gonna go four though you're gonna go three and four I'm gonna give an honorable mention okay I'm going to say I'm going to say and I'm surprised if I'm being honest I'm surprised you didn't mention this person I'm gonna say and this is this I will say this person because I think if you're a technical consultant that is in the UK you will either know this person or worked with this person and you will probably feel the same way I do yeah probably oh you know who I'm gonna say I do I know exactly who you're gonna say I feel like probably number four or five for me it has to be Justin it has to be Justin Loftus has to be yeah those of you who don't know Justin Loftus is um uh works in the UK works for up three pound in the jar Bank um but James and I have worked with um Justin over in uh Partners it fruition be it a bit of um not sure dxc no it wasn't over Dixie again I think for me it's if I if I try and ball that it's it's the passion for the tool unrivaled passion yeah it's um the unfathomable knowledge that he manages to absorb absolutely knowledge and the I can't think of the right phrase but it's the the it's the ability to just get stuck in you know what I mean rather than the again it's not it's the it's the whole um he doesn't do that oh it's not my job you know you guys can do it it's not afraid to get stuck in yeah uh go through the mud with you if you know what I mean yeah so yeah he'll get involved go through the mud with you stupidly knowledgeable um many of the training sessions that we had at fruition are still memorable in my head you know with the white boards I'm going through and um and I think it is quite humble as well in terms of yeah yeah I'm not a scripter I've just learned what I've learned as I'm going along so you can kind of relate to him that way he's not a um allowing out front end or back-end developer he's just learning what he's learning yeah he's definitely someone who you kind of just soak his like Knowledge from him if you know what I mean but if he's talking you listen absolutely yeah yeah there's been numerous times where he's supported me in the past um and been happy to support me and that's the thing that's the thing nothing nothing's too much trouble doesn't matter how much he's going on he's great you'll always find time for you so that is inspirational character number three and what would I say for that I'm going to say that if I something because I think we're hung these up in one words right I'm gonna say passion just Springs to mind passion yeah yeah that's what has inspired me on on that one yeah that's a good Channel there you go yes do we do you want my honorable mention number four I would love to hear your honorable mention I'm sure your honorable mention would love to hear it too my honorable mention goes to um someone I work with again um the same company I won't mention the company again um you can guess or LinkedIn but is um so she's not really been in in the industry long but she went from and I hope I'm hoping I'm not doing this story um this Justice right or or getting it wrong but she went from um being like doing accountancy like doing books um you know Ledges and whatever to having a child and then deciding well I want to change a career I don't know whether it's I want to or I have to whatever yeah but whilst having the child or and giving birth she decided I'm going to learn service now so not only learning service now but I think if you learn servicenow ITIL and Prince too all at the same time not necessarily the same time but the same time period yeah uh and that was in the first year right so whilst having a kid re-skilling a learning and when I've worked with on projects she's she's enthusiastic to get involved as much as you possibly can always asking lots of questions to try and learn so I think I have to give an honorable bench but this is um Amira um arslan um who I've worked with um for a few years but just I don't know just for me you've got so much going on yeah to fit that in as well it has to be inspirational to people yeah so yeah like that that's definitely that was close if I'm being honest yeah so I think dedication I would say dedication dedication all you got so you've got dedication you've got passion [Music] um Robin Mark as well I can't remember what what you kind of summarize them I said um I want to say a service ownership ownership ownership yeah and the other one um Rob sorry I just called you the other one but I'm that was more work-life balance kind of emotional intelligence emotional intelligence okay lovely and would you say that almost sums up what would you say is like as the kind of key traits that you have now the passion the dedication ownership emotional intelligence have you almost like picked their best traits do you know what right and this is not planned people right yeah I I hadn't planned in my head what I was going to say when you said inspirational people right I hadn't planned that I hadn't read any notes down I just just said what came to my head you you would have wrote stuff down because that's what you do you would have made your little notes yeah I just said what came to mind yep when I thought of those people right yeah when you read those words back to me I'm going to say that's 100 spot on 100 yeah that's weird that's almost emotional man do a podcast I wasn't expecting this no yeah that's good that's good yeah that's what you're all about yeah move on move on something stupid um Quack a duck someone yeah what were your words yeah well my words were you know hard working positivity and yeah organization and communication skills and I would say if I was to describe myself to anybody and my at my biggest strengths I would say they are in my organization my hard-working um I wouldn't necessarily necessarily say positivity though that's more one that I still aspire to um I still would love to not be affected by things when things go wrong um that still happens I still beat myself up over stupid things or you've heard me say this loads of times about I think I was rubbish on that podcast I didn't really say the right questions or you know that sort of thing I just wish I was like you know what that was just really fun you know I knew there were problems but I'll do better next time I don't think like that and I wish I did yeah I I think that's most people I'm certainly like that I know we've spoke about this before right self-critical but that's that's interesting though because when you say those words and I think if you asked me to describe you I I would I would say that I'm not sure I'd say positive that's no discredit to you but I'd say unflappable I'd go with is what I'd say um that's interesting but you wrote this down though man you knew what was going to come out what I didn't think of was like the overarching theme um I just thought you know these are the people that were inspirational to me I didn't really think oh actually because of these inspirational people you kind of take their best traits and it becomes you who you are [Music] I do right I think I think to be honest I think that's um that's a really good summary and I think what we should do is definitely get something um perhaps some article um but maybe maybe people that are listening to this can think about inspirational people how it's inspired them or or or or change them as people and whether they can actually realize it now yeah um definitely been a bit of an eye to me that could be high-pitched there's going to be some cringe moments in there there's going to be some cringe moments um but that's what we're here for to be fair to be honest right should we wrap things up do we need to summarize or we've just done it I think we're summarize quite well what I would say is maybe yeah definitely have a think yourselves in terms of the inspirational people that made you you um maybe even reach out to them um see what they're up to these days or if you don't anymore you know um say thank you yeah I think that's all I got that's all you got right should we should we do Arrow have we changed it have we changed it no but you do it you never do it I do it all the time okay so at least for us to say I've been James I've been Russ and this is the service ducks