there's the zoom registration which most of you found because you're here today there is the Forum home page and any content I get from presenters or any code we might get sometimes goes on that Forum page so I'll have the meeting with the content from the meeting underneath it including the video there's a YouTube playlist I think we got about 20 25 videos on there now from all of our last meetings and then there's also a shared instance that we uh we take turns beating up on as we do our little demos I'm going to post this link here in the bottom in the chat I do that every week just so you can have a link to this this about page this way I don't have to go searching for stuff all over the place those four links will get you to everything The Forum does is this is our just quick look at what we're doing here the big Focus that we had in the beginning when we started back in 2018 was really on cmdb but we changed our Focus about a year and a half ago to digital transformation because that's what we're really trying to do with the part of the cmdb that we're looking at so our mission is to help all of our people that are in the group participate in their own Transformations using the servicenow platform shared work is in all forms the videos are probably the main forms and also the presentation so stealing a slide or two from the presenters is usually what happens so that you could talk about it more internally and then our EA team is the one who hosts this the main way to get information is in these bi-weekly calls so if you're here for the first time that gives you the 10 000 foot view of what the Digital Services forum is the next Parts I'm going to hand it over to Martin and I think you're going to take a share right Martin uh yeah well Mark's going to share but thank you John um let's go ahead and get started here so thanks everyone for joining see a lot of common names on The Forum here um for those that don't know me I'm part of the Enterprise architecture team here at servicenow I'm honored to have two guys with us Mike osterling who's a co-author of uh pretty much the de facto standard I I like to think around value stream Mappy um and then of course uh Mark bodman who's over our data foundations our csdm cmdb product manager so today um what I want to start off with is a quick poll if we can get that going John so and as we start taking um down some of your responses really start to explain why we're here um value stream mapping value stream management it's it's it's this concept that's been around for so long but really starting to you know pick up even more Steam and more Trends within the industries um we'll talk about what it means to different personas and different folks in the organization and and and across the different Enterprises but really what um I I'll tell you a quick story you know what the thing I love about it the most when I get to go work with leaders in different companies and different organizations when I look at Value stream map in it's really the the big rocks beneath the river the the the the the the the river waters you know seems hot but it's all those things that are neat that are kind of hidden and exposed right I was working with um a customer a few weeks ago and I'll give a simple example we're just talking about recruit to retire end to end you look at like HR are what HR is doing in their processes they're like Martin we're fully automated we're going from Talent when offer is accepted we're Auto creating um accounts in our HCM um we're notifying the right people like everything's great but they still can't get to day one Readiness right still taking four to five days to get somebody access and all these provisionings and offices and security so we go to I.T and says I.T you know what's going on they're like we are fully automated you know we we've got ad account creation Auto crease and adding the right access adding the right um applications but it's still taking five days getting these folks into a room together to start looking at all the intricacies across how values delivered in this case they're Readiness you start to look at all the manual things that have happened right oh it's because John has the hiring manager John has to email um I.T or submit this form sits on someone's desk they have to send this email create update the spreadsheet so it's all these things that are painfully obvious but we don't know about it until we actually get in the room with folks and start looking at end to end right so at the end of the day yes you could spend um it's you're going to have a value stream map that's produced and we'll show some examples and talk about what that is but the real value isn't the actual map it's the fact that the collective journey of getting folks together and actually being able to make visible what was invisible and it's usually those things that are painfully obvious um we just don't know it because we get so mired down in our organizational bounds and silos um so I'm really excited about this let's look at the poll we asked three questions does your organization have a clear definition of what value streams are within its operation it looks like about 30 percent of respondents right now say yes 70 say no and then for those that have um you want me to put that up so everybody can see it oh yes yes are you able to see the results live I I can see them I don't know if everyone else can see them right now Heather can you see him no I still see the questions I think I'll I can end it if you want Martin and put it up for everybody yeah let's do that yeah and then for those that responded um you know we want to know if then you know if you're looking through the lens of value streams are we seeing measurable notable improvements in performance and delivery uh and then this this last question is really really interesting to me and something because when we use the term value stream it's very specific term that has different connotations and definitions and meaning but at the end of the day we're looking across how values delivered end to end within a certain area right across different organizational bounds so we there's different terms used for it a lot of organizations are looking through the lens of a value stream without even calling it a value stream right so today as you go through and you hear from Mike and Mark and others keep that in mind right even if your leadership or part of your strategic planning efforts that you're not really using that term um we're still looking at ways to break down across multiple bus multiple organizational units processes activities Etc can I just ask a quick question on that on on the third one it's like they're calling it something else other than value streams can we ask what are they calling it um I would actually or at the end or I can put it in the Q a I would actually love the audience to tell me what else you know you're hearing in your organization I can tell you what I hear from some of the clients I work with but I'd really love to hear what other folks um call it within their own um businesses a good idea that we can drop that in the uh in the chat that'd be great awesome uh well Mike I'm gonna turn it over to you they're not here to hear me talk so I'll let you take over from here uh if you have questions throughout please raise your hand and ask a question throw it in the chat we'll be monitoring so uh Mike go ahead saw you great and I see people are putting in the chat what some of those terms are that's great um thank you Martin thank you John and um I'm looking forward to doing this Mark and I uh have uh actually we go back about five and a half years and uh we did a thing together at it for it Forum back in San Diego and um good morning good afternoon good evening wherever you might be it's morning here I'm in San Diego excited to get going here guys so what Mark and I want to do today is kind of go over what this value stream mapping is why we do it what the purpose is give it provide an introduction to this concept of value stream management and then kind of compare them and talk about what's the difference or how you know value stream mapping versus value stream management we also want to hit on the the standardized digital product uh value Stream So it variety the reference architecture um we're gonna touch on how do we improve and manage value streams and why value streams are preferred by uh strategic partners and then we'll talk just a little bit about how you need help if you're looking for support what can servicenow do to support you guys what can I do for you to help you guys out um so actually I love uh what Martin's introduction was in his introduction he talked about value streams and value stream mapping and the the rocks in the river analogy and and as Martin said sometimes it looks smooth on the surface but if you get underneath there's a whole bunch of turbulence and I'm gonna say on the surface lots of times there's dams that get in the way so it ain't always flowing and I love that analogy and the visual that values stream comes uh that that it provokes so when we talk about where did this come from I mean this is this is nothing new but I'm going to say it's really really critical and so the first time somebody put it the term value stream mapping was in this book that uh uh Jim Womack and Dan Jones put together 20 yikes 24 years ago or whatever the math is on that and um so they kind of it was interesting in lean thinking they said there's five principles if you will of lean thinking and the lean Enterprise and they said hey the customer the external customer the End customer are the folks that Define value and then what we need to do as an organization is really understand what that whole thing is from beginning to end what what is and they labeled it value stream from from that first request until that end user end customer has in hand or has available the thing that they're requesting what are all the steps that are required and and so they talk about value streams thinking and it's not just understanding what goes from you know that beginning to end experience it's also manage monitoring managing and improving the value streams and then real quick the other three principles was one of one was about create flow that's that River analogy okay how do we keep that moving that that water moving forward without hitting hitting Eddies and turbulence and and dams and things like that so we're trying to create flow how to use how do you reduce the stops and disruptions and the delivery of that value and the fourth principle is at the pull of the customer so when they want it at the time they want it and you know they might not want it to take a year to get that thing from beginning to end so how do we accelerate that in a in a in a responsible and an effective way and then the fifth principle is talking about continuous Improvement and pursuit of perfection and it's interesting when we look at these in organizations that have been doing trying to adopt these lean thinking principles um it's shocking how infrequent it is that that second principle of value stream understanding your value stream monitoring managing and improving the value stream the value stream thinking does not is not pervasive we live in silos and silos departments functions whatever it may be and one of the things we see is that hey within the different silos we may be getting our stuff together we may be optimizing we may be improving but is it at the expense of somebody else I wanna so again what is a value stream it's everything from beginning to end and I'm going to tell you a story so I'm based in San Diego um I've been doing this lean stuff for 25 years something like that and one of the engagements uh I've had over the years is with the U.S Navy and a specific command out here called Southwest Regional maintenance centers swarmac any naval ship that comes into San Diego Harbor actually anytime it comes in it's going to get some type of service okay anything that has to happen goes through this group called swarmac that's a big place I mean they've got something like 70 different I'm going to call them shops but they aren't all physical shops because there's a lot of knowledge work a lot of a lot of engineering a lot of um systems work and and as well as the mechanical stuff and so as a command what they did a number of years ago is they said let's look at these 70 shops and 70 work providers service slash product providers and they said recognizing that the mission of the Navy cannot be accomplished in the port how do we get shipped back out to sea as quickly as possible and they said let's look at all of these different providers and identify which of these are the shops that are most prone or at risk of holding up getting ships back out to sea so they narrowed it down they had a I I don't even remember what the list was they had nine or ten of these services and shops that held things up and one of them was they called it the misnomer they called it the paint shop what the paint shop did was this specific shop they took these ladders that you see here and what they would do is they would service these ladders on regular maintenance or repairs or whatever it was and what they found out that was that this was one of their bottleneck one of their constraints in getting ships back out to sea so we could look at it from a high level there's five different steps take a ladder off the ship QC does an assessment on it in the middle there the engineering and planning group does it puts the other work plan then they actually repair or do the service to it in the shop and then finally they mount it test it sign it up and get it back on the ship and that's done by The Dockside Personnel knowing what the processes is not enough and I'm going to say fixing everything is probably the wrong thing to do we only have limited resources to to to take care of stuff and so what this group did was they said where are the constraints they put some metrics together and they said hey what's the work effort or PT is process time and the second row underneath each of those blocks it says LT that's the lead time or turnaround time and actually a very revealing uh uh uh metric is this thing that's a percent C and A or percent complete and accurate so what percent of the time are we getting the stuff right in the first time and when they put this all on a summary timeline and visualize that it became painfully clear where the biggest leverage points were what we saw was if we start looking at hey our total lead time beginning to end the value stream delivery turnaround time was something like 66 days and within those 66 days there's about 120 some hours of work and if you do the math on this I don't have it up here right now but if you do the math on this it's it's just around 10 of the time the thing is actually being worked on or it's getting transformed the process time divided by lead time and so the constraints there we highlight the constraints then they say where are leverage points look at that 30 days to get it through the shop 27 days to get it through the engineering and planning group and actually look at that percent complete and accurate of 50 within the Engineering Group it's not about turnaround time or it's not just around turn around time or lead time but it's also about Hey what how are we doing where are the where are the biggest Boulders these aren't racks these are Boulders and what is it that we got to work on again without some type of Direction like this it's really hard to know where do we where do we where do we assign where do we commit those valuable resources whether they be people time money whatever it is that's pretty cool once they did this and this was done with leaders and let's go back to slide just for a second Mark please um when we did that when they did the current state map it was with the leaders of the different functions in the room so leaders the decision makers the people with the authority and or influence to make decisions not just on where to put those resources but what those resources needed to work on so um three big deliverables from a value stream map from a value stream mapping perspective okay one is what's going on today where's the pain where are those leverage points this is Pareto stuff 80 20 okay where are we going to get the most bang for our black so three deliverables current state map what's happening today where's the pain future state map what do we think this could look like what these guys did was their timeline was for this specific shop their timeline was their timeline was uh was 12 months where could we be in 12 months it's pretty cool now what this activity stimulated was focused workshops maybe people have heard Kaizen events whatever the label is it's a focus Workshop or it might be projects or whatever it is that say how do we bring this down how do we improve the delivery and what they were able to do um in the repair shop they were able to take it from 30 days down to five days and that's just pretty straightforward that was hey we just need to physically rearrange stuff physically balance the work I got real involved in the work plan with the engineering and planning folks uh their goal actually their original goal was bring this down to five days from 27 days and no bull when we talked about this they were able to take it from 27 days down to two days now did they get it all done in day one no they did okay but this took about 30 days before they transitioned from this is the way that the engineering and Planning Group works today to what it could be part of that was part of that was technology part of it was workflow part of it was cross-training it was uh it was pretty cool part of it was standardization uh and simplification pretty cool stuff check that out lead time in the far right from 66 days to 16 days this was not just a plan but it started with current state map future state map third deliverable from a value stream mapping activity is how are we going to get there what's the transformation plan so again the people with the authority the people with the influence have to be in the room to make those commitments and they were and now the people that did the actual Improvement were closer to the front lines people that understand what's going on on a day-to-day basis so um so Mark you want to hit this one yeah so uh one of the things that I got involved with is it for it and and we we developed that to be able to address running I.T more like a business and there's a lot of value in how we apply this thinking and what we do um there's a lot of opportunities to automate uh to make things more standard and efficient and there are activities I call them movements like devops um these dev-centric processes have always been sort of a a bottleneck in the it organization and then you need to have these fast production iterations and we've kind of made some definitely improvements in the industry like around that but the speed is not alone it's not just about driving faster but having better quality and control over how fast you're going and where you're going um to to basically look at other metrics like productivity or uh Innovation aspects that you need to invest in as well and uh the the thing that's you know happened in our organization of the world basically everything's become digital and so it underpins almost everything we do from the manufacturing process so just tracking the the ship process uh like you just kind of went through there might you know there's there's I.T involved in in coordinating and tracking all those things even if the work is all manual labor we're still tracking it and I I remember of having a a discussion with our own Dave Wright about this because workflows in themselves are digital and we are assigning tasks in our own platform based on um tracking and managing that flow based on uh workflows that we Define so it pin underpins almost everything we do yeah and it's interesting that you point that out Mark because the roots of value stream mapping actually some people attribute it to something that they were doing in the in Toyota and it was they called it material and information flow yes and TPS yeah exactly yes um the other thing you know I think Martin talked about you know all of these different systems and such in an organization and one of the things if I was listening well Mark Martin that you mentioned was hey the new hire process what's everything that's required from we need somebody to fill this role there's an identification of a need until that person is on in-house and executing one of my favorite VSM or value stream mapping activities was actually um it wasn't just the new hire process it was the higher to retire process and so what are all the systems that not that a person touches but that touches that person or touches the information about that person and uh boy was that a revealing exercise and the ironic thing was that was with a software development company and the man manual iterations and the manual uh touches in that process where uh we're painful but that was a great motivator what we're trying to do you guys is it's not about it's not about how to how well does each department work it's about that optimizing that overall delivery of services to the or overall delivery of value to that end user and customer and I don't know if you guys ever feel like this you know we're supposed to be doing what we see here but sometimes it feels like we're fighting each other and um we don't we're not even aligned on true north so the question is if we're not talking if we don't have a common understanding a truly common understanding of what's going on today how are we going to get going in the right direction so when we talk about value stream mapping it's from a high level it's a macro view of what's going on we're not trying to figure out what's keeping people from you know what's causing the backup necessarily and fixing that back up let me rephrase that we're not trying to fix everything within a value stream mapping activity we're trying to identify where those constraints are so we put the resources at the right place and there's a lining on that so again valuation mapping high level look at things making sure that we're aligned we've got a common understanding of what's going on in the current state where collaborating to make sure that we're we're all working towards a common future state that we agree on what we should be working on and what that performance should look like and we're getting consensus on yes this is what we're committing to in terms of how are we going to get there the fifth principle that that I talked about in that book was uh was pursuit of perfection continuous Improvement and that means you don't fix a value stream performance once we've got to go back and and look at it again and again especially in the environments that we live in customer requirements are changing technology is changing we're learning new stuff and so we've got to make this an iterative thing I really want to reiterate that this is a high level look at things I love process Maps this ain't a process map okay with just a process map we don't know where the issue this says this is what's supposed to happen but how often is what's supposed to happen really happening and where the metrics and where's the pain okay I don't have any issues with process Maps I don't have any issues with with swim Lanes okay I love the hey who's doing what and what are the handoffs but these are more detailed this is what we get into when we're actually saying um how do we fix it as opposed to what do we need to focus on hey Mike oh yeah can I stop you on this for a second because what you're saying here on the value streams and the process Maps is really important because sometimes people take the value streams as the process Maps instead of taking value streams and mapping them to business capabilities so we get those two together and you can do that on the servicenow platform your business process comes later your business process is not the value stream and I have to tell you we have a hard time with customers getting them there and so you know we have a kind of interesting way of starting them down the value stream path and then mapping it to the business capabilities and then we get the into the details of the business process later but this one this is so key because it's hard for us we're a partner it's hard to get the customer to get that headspace number one they don't have any concept of value streams they only have business process so this one is really important and so yes thank you to do that thanks for thanks for pointing that out Etta um and one way that I help people differentiate those what we're seeing here are steps within a process and a value stream map is the processes not the step so each process hey that engineering and planning in the example 27 days and 50 hours of effort that was not that was that was it was not one step that was dozens of steps to execute and deliver that so what we're trying to do is value stream mapping is kind of set that direction what is it going to look like down the road get that buy-in and if we do this you guys and it gets it gets everybody aligned and where we're going it can have this profound and very very impactful effect in terms of how fat can we move forward I think so Mike that's definitely uh my experience as well over the last few years and um I want to now address something called value stream management that is kind of come up in the last few years uh and maybe curated some confusion or maybe some misunderstanding of what the differences are what the similarities are and so when we look at Value stream management I like to look at some of where those terms are first coined and what analysts are saying about it and one of the first I would say uh trustworthy sources that I saw on on this particular term was from uh Forbes article I think in our uh four or five years ago at least where they defer basically defined it as a lean practice to determine value of software deployment development and delivery efforts and the resources so uh you can see that out there now the other sources that come from the analysts in the space have created value stream Management Solutions and platform Market definitions and as such they look at vendors such as ourselves that kind of instrument and manage and meter how the value streams are moving in the software space so more or less end to end from idea to to you know software produced and value consumed of the consumers and last there's there's also something called the VSM Consortium that we were one of the founding members of and that is a Consortium to help organizations kind of adopt these principles in the value stream uh space for the software organizations um and so there's other vendors uh that that are in that same space that can contribute to the VSM Consortium but that's just another area where you see the movement kind of getting picked up sorry I was on mute um this is just some simple uh form updates there's a couple of minor requests in there to update some catalog items other than that it's it's all very what cosmetic um there's not really any process driven stuff that's changed Wayne I think you're you're off mute now I don't know if you meant that for us he's doing a demo all right thanks we got them all righty um so let's do a quick comparison because I I know that I was confused when I first saw it and thinking what's the difference what are the similarities and they basically they're both based on lean principles so we can basic we can say that for sure um however mapping is that top-down executive oriented exercise to define the maps which I think is very valuable as Mike just pointed out versus a market category for software delivery and practices which is what we find the value stream management being all about um the the thing about mapping as you saw from Mike it could be about ladders or software or anything it's really any product for any customer and then on the management side really focuses on that software oriented um aspects not necessarily A broader definition in that market space and last is really the the mapping is a valuable tool to to use in aligning those different silos however in the on the value stream management side it's really focused on full life cycle software product delivery which is fine too but just keep that in mind now one of the things I really want to stress too at least is What We believe We Believe Management of any value stream should be applied so you don't you don't really do this for software only but if it's ship ladders that's fine it could be anything any service any product uh you know good that basically needs to be managed and then delivered to some consumer to provide value I I want to take a moment to kind of walk through the digital product value streams that we've created within the it4it standard and it4it has been around for a while and by the way I wanted to mention Mike that your book inspired the addition of the value stream layer in the architecture itself so um so there's kind of three four main layers that we have within the standard itself uh the first one being value streams and there's seven now we used to have four so those have expanded and and they're been reoriented to be more applicable to what happens in a modern delivery organization so we'll get into that in a little bit more detail there's a data object layer which are the metrics and the description of the digital products and services and the way you're offering those to customers and how you're tracking and managing the the as is um the functional components which are the work that's done their functional components because they apply to the people and jobs that are done but also the automation that can be applied in each of those jobs a lot of tooling is available there too and last but not least is the groupings of those functions because we typically see tools being integrated into these groupings and value streams may cut across many different tools many different functions and teams and groupings and then the it4t standard with the these are the different groupings we have at the high level uh you'll see digital product on the upper left and the different value streams kind of connecting the dots between the different groupings um and also you're seeing the release the service offer and the product actual product instances being defined within the actual standard um when we Define the standard we also considered people and machines as different types of consumers and also internal or external consumers one of the I think challenges organizations have is being able to treat each other like consumers or customers now you're not paying you know each other real money but across organizations across the if you were supposed to provide let's say compute as a platform as a service to others that's an internal consumer versus actually charging for compute uh when you're actually having an external consumer and and the standard we defined three portfolios we think we're extending that where you've got a a request to add another portfolio we'll get into that in a minute but it's really the market-facing digital products that you actually sell and be able to provide value to end customers who pay you and we organize that by product lines we have the employee facing um deliverables so those are going to be you know HR services like like you talked about their mic hired to retire those are all important then we have foundational Services which you build others on top of so shared I.T services are typical there or even platforms we're seeing as a shared component that others build upon to do market-facing stuff for employee facing digital products and last but not least of the tool chains themselves are manufacturing so those are automation those are digital products that are there to basically provide those products to those end users or employees or to be able to provide foundational services to others so so that's kind of what it4t defines and we also move into the the seven value streams if we get in a little bit more detail we got the evaluate which is all about the Gathering influencers between the market internal influencers existing products and services that you sell or use you want to be able to um explore potential Investments that you can make in each digital product again the product being a good service or both uh you need to integrate those which is about planning the release uh building it or buying it implementing it and then providing it to be used uh deploy is being able to deploy that new release as it's ready to be going going into production not every release will be provided to others uh if you do continuous integration you'll you'll know about that um the release value stream which is where we Define the offer and how it's consumed sometimes all we do is change the offering we might change the price to accommodate higher cost of goods for example and last but not least is the cons well actually with consume value stream there's one more after this but the consume is really how do we provide the ability to consume a standard offering once it's been described in a catalog and then for tracking those in terms of a status is operate which is where we basically detect and correct issues that are found and uh operationally and that could be you know something in the customer's hands or something internally that are used between companies or different uh business units uh yeah so you had a question I did so on this so so we would Define the value streams as evaluate you know explore integrate you know blah blah blah blah is would be the different piece value a you know gather influencers identify the gaps blah blah blah blah right and then under that you would then Define the business capabilities so it's like three layers right well and and what I'm looking at is because I'm looking at setting this up in SPM so I would set up the value stream as your one two three four five six seven okay I'm losing you is it me or is it you it's at a okay I think we can let let's continue and edible follow up offline to talk exactly through the the SPM components of that perfect thank you I appreciate that yeah and that is something that we couldn't have a follow-up session with I've been chatting with Caitlyn um Morrison Karina Hatfield about that so that's something we can definitely have another session on no no thank you thank you because I'm in the process of putting that together now and I think you know as we're bringing in new work we want to be able to follow this but it it we got to be able to configure it in the tool right yeah absolutely and we'll so I'll get to that a little bit at the end because we are we get a number of different Investments we're making around that especially in the Utah release where we now can capture value stream information within the platform so um just to finish out some of the other Concepts from the I within the it reference architecture we can actually map those value streams down into the functional components and the other objects that are actually managed within those uh in this case the integrate value stream has a number of scenarios to introduce new or initial product releases to configure off the shelf stuff uh deliver emergency changes or even update a vendor product as they're uh those are valued used by internal folks or by customers and so all of these are sort of different um triggers these scenarios are different triggers for the same steps that we would take in that integrate value streams and underneath are all the functional components that are involved so which which kind of cross all of those different teams or tools if you're using using different tools and one of the advantages of being on the platform of course is that some of these tools might be already integrated pretty well uh this is just the full view of the it4t architecture with uh the two of the main layers the data architecture and also the functional components and and groupings so you can see how that all kind of strings together the one thing I would I wanted to also highlight is that in the version three we added a value stream for each digital product the idea here is each product is participating in a value stream of some sort that you implement in a typical iot organization according to those four portfolios so we want to know uh how is this it investment contributing to the value streams either higher to retire or delivering something to a customer for example and well we recently mapped a lot of the products that we sell to the it freaky architecture so my colleague Ian Liu just published some work that a lot of team members here contributed to to show how servicenow provides value or tools in the in each of these areas um so that's something to definitely look at uh and this is just an example of something I've done with customers in the past where we look at a typical value stream of for a customer and we use the it4it definition to identify those steps um as a reference architecture you can extend it it's a good place to start and you can reference this to see you know what you're doing or not doing and kind of use this as a as a as a template in order to kind of Define your own um and in this case looking at the the integrate value stream we're identifying a couple issues and the first couple of issues that we see here are are basically the planning and design processes also the build integrate and test processes seem to be a bit higher in the correct and accurate numbers aren't that good the lead time is pretty high in the process time is pretty low you know it's it's there's not a good ratio there according to that and this is what we typically see in a waterfall development process where the match sizes are very high you know you're doing all your planning up front then development then Testa at the end and in this case we have a customer that's basically made a lot of configuration policy mistakes they don't follow policy they're not setting up the config files properly between environments and a lot of that can be um basically caught way at the end um so in this case we were able to reference what we do in each of these areas and we kind of look at a couple of things like product backlog and the product backlog area of the it for it architecture we find that we've got a number of products that we can help improve things to adopt agile methodologies to integrate with existing agile tools that that the organization is already using and they can put devops insights workspace in place to kind of look at the devops processes and start to measure and meter uh all of the continuous integration continuous deployment processes that you have um and the other thing that we also have in test area we have something called devops config and that's another area that we can automate the evaluation of your config files to kind of eliminate some of those challenges that customers might make and so when you apply these things we're going to address some of those problems by moving to more of an agile process which basically changes our batch size so our batch size was 50 before we were doing everything at once but looking at this in a 14-day Sprint exercise we're able to move the batch size down and adjust and make everybody's work much more efficient uh across the whole deliverable of the same 50 requirements we have also added a config policy tests devops config in order to eliminate some of the config problems that were happening and testing those configs for each for each of the deployments so we're not making mistakes we're actually catching them before the deployment happens um so yeah we've reduced in this case those same 50 requirements we've reduced our our process time to 30 53 days and lead time only 70s for the same 50 requirements all right so that's my it4it example applying some of what we know from a servicenow perspective some of our product areas and using as an evaluation criteria for what you do or don't do in an organization oh and so yeah go ahead Mike so it's it's interesting what comes to the surface when you get all the different players in the room and you're talking about um hey things things are working great in my area but that may not be true from a downstream perspective or even from an upstream perspective and sometimes getting our our colleagues in the room with us uh brings a lot of these things to the surface and I know you got I know no one here will recognize any of these issues but when we get our current state map together one thing I don't think I iterated enough is within the especially current state value stream mapping activity what we're trying to do is identify those pain points those are those rocks that Martin opened up with uh what are the Rocks some of them hit some of them sticking above the surface of the river that that we should be addressing and so some of the things they say is hey there's a lot of tribal knowledge or maybe there's a lot of Randomness we don't have standards we don't have automation where automation makes sense um we are looking at things not just from a Process Management but also from a technology or tools perspective within our silos and not necessarily integrating those well with the other pieces of the of the value stream yeah and I just want to I just want to iterate that on that Mike because one of the reasons I joined service now is because we are natively integrating everything on our platform the cost of integrating those silos is very low which is a huge value proposition for platforms by themselves and actually it goes I think it goes hand in hand with the next bullet here and we talk about um hey maybe the technology we've got the technology but are we really fully utilizing it yes and and I think some of that comes from knowledge silos or awareness silos and we don't even know that uh what somebody else is doing um as Mark's example showed way too often we see delayed testing or delayed you know if it's software in the I.T environment the service environment you know it's the testing issues um and then what happens after the testing's done there's just bucket loads of testing or I'm sorry of rework and sometimes we're behind the eight ball and maybe we're not even able to do the rework that that really should be happening and it's like well it's good enough we got a launch baby so um and one of the things that the agile kind of adds to the mix is with the smaller batch sizes you can change your mind or get early feedback and make your you know if figure out that ambiguity so you're not building something that's wrong you know at the end of the year you'll know it's wrong but uh it's too late there you've already made your whole investment I see Michael you got Michael's hands up but you got a quickie yeah just a quick one uh Mark I want to Echo what you just said which is the beauty of the service down platform is of course that it takes away that overhead of integrating because it's all sitting on the same platform so I just need to make the tables or modules talk to each other the greatest challenges there I think we all collectively might face is the I'm going to call it the old school mentality of go get best of read and bring them in because to this day I still have to continue to fight with a lot of I don't know if I would maybe push against the resistance of well I'm just gonna go get jira and I'm gonna go get the testing Suite from like no no no stop it use what you have here you've it's all in the same platform and let's take the cost of the integration right into adding more value to you and I think um I don't know if you if you have anything that some wisdom you want to share with us in terms of how do we make the case for that better absolutely I mean and you're you're echoing something from my own experience when I was in a my previous employer uh here at in Austin I used to make all my buying decisions based on looking at the magic quadrant or Forester wave and buying the top three you know those are the only three I would look at where in reality it's the cost of Integrations that add to the mix which you can't necessarily see when you're when you're making those kinds of decisions right it's uh Roi here right yeah yeah time to value is really and even implementing the tools and the automation that's a huge Factor even if we're not best to breed for a specific thing because we're integrated we make up for it in that fact alone hey Mark we also had a good question from Kenneth in the chat I want to call this out so he's talking about the vs inflow Kenneth correct me if I'm wrong here you're talking about the duration times I'm assuming that's the lead time cycle time some of those uh attributes that were captured and shown on the slide and Kenneth is asking if um if that view reflects the capability of servicenow uh and and you know what what Now can do um theoretically yes I it does involve other things like processes and other people changes like going from a waterfall to Agile process it involves a lot more than just the tools so but it is but it is you know going back to some of the things that Mike was highlighting you need to get everybody involved to to make that change to happen it's not just the tool but everybody leadership uh even the consumers need to be able to expect more frequent deliverables right because sometimes you're just used to the old way and waiting a year maybe it's faster and your consumers need to be ready for it which we're seeing because we're so fast now we're delivering our own products every quarter our customers can barely keep up themselves so we're starting to experience some of that already too pixel so a few other things that we talk Mark why don't you talk to this one too here yeah yeah this match designed the dev efforts and that's another you know pet peeve from my experience and once you do have a design you want to make sure Dev efforts match that design and they're delivering what you're expecting um you know so age-old problem is you know what you designed is not necessarily what you get but that's that's got to be tighter but more tightly managed and we have uh Partners actually on the on the call here to help in that regards too so one of the other things that we see a lot is when we manage by silos we manage our skills by silos and we miss opportunities for folks to actually get engaged not just get engaged but actually understand and participate in some of the work or activities of other silos another dimension of this over specialization I'm going to say it's over specialization or I don't know what the right word is exactly but we rely on our leaders to do the management and we don't develop and we don't let our people manage their own processes the things that can be Pro that that can be managed and so over specialization may just may not be just skills but it's also in the management role so we see lots of handoffs we see way too many handoffs uh some of the other things that we see are there's lots of uh big batches Mark was talking about that hey you've got you know whatever it is five-story five stories 50 features 50 requirements and I'm trying to work on everything at once and that can slow everything down big batches result in multitasking and slowing stuff down um hey I know I know where the bottlenecks are my Stylo but does who who really knows and understands where the bottlenecks are in the value stream yeah and I just want to highlight a lot of times it's the it's they're not talking you're not it's somewhere between the two processes and you don't realize it right you you sent something to this other team and it sits there for months before somebody actually gets to it absolutely yeah in fact the tip in a straight word process map it doesn't even show up on the process map because we don't have those reworks built in there or we don't have metrics built in and so we don't understand performance issues so hey if you're going to go from where we are today to where we want to be in six months nine months 12 months whatever that might be you gotta have a plan to get there three deliverables current state and pain what can we do about it future State and then the real important thing is a transformation plan that's being actively worked this is a set of hypotheses I mean we come out of a value stream mapping activity my experience has been 80 to 90 percent of the stuff that we came up with holds water and 10 or 20 of it it's like what were we thinking that day or no we've got to tweak it maybe it has to be done a little bit differently pretty responsible you know deliverable that's Dynamic yeah all right somebody asked in the chat great Concepts and experience in the future could someone show how to build and use the value streams in the servicenow platform do you think this would be a good example to be able to map into servicenow I'll let you take that one mark yeah yeah I I think it can again I think that's an area that we can get more I guess uh elaborate uh you know we don't have the time to really address that but I've already been you know discussing that with Katrina Hatfield as a potential follow-up to this session and I can go ahead yeah workshops is I bring all the silos to the table so it was I wanted to ask that question if Alan asked that question yeah you cut out for half of that at us so yeah I was gonna say Alan asked that question it was on that okay and what I said is I can help you guys with that I've already I've already got it actually set up but it was Alan good question Alan Etta can I contact you offline yes ma'am I mean yes sir oops I'm sorry thank you sir there you go all right all right we're running we're letting Noah on time here I want to make sure that we address the last few things here but um can some of the key takeaways here is that you know strategic planning versus ongoing management that's really the difference between the two terms you know and then of course you can go on to about the market definition it's not about the map itself and it's about the conversation and understanding across the silos what's going on and understanding how you're creating value for those consumers whatever that that might be um you must have the right people in the room if you don't have the folks that are uh I would say responsible for those silos they won't have common understanding you won't have uh folks recognizing where the effort improvements really need to be sometimes you're looking at a symptom versus the root cause when you're putting the whole value stream together you're able to see that and agree to that um yeah Management in action are actually critical it's not a a theoretical exercise you got to do something about it it4it standard can help identify some of those gaps and opportunities if you don't know where to start especially from a reference architecture point of view as Architects you you know it's a very good tool to use to get started and and leverage within organizations that are doing software to delivery and development and then last but not least is really management applies to any value Stream So as we kind of highlight this market definition that's been created around software it doesn't have to be always software more and more than software is a component of everything we do but not everything not always now how can we help so this is your book Mike and I still have my copy here that that I keep on my desk really close to the heart and I appreciate that like I said it's changed my world my thinking I think tea fry tea is available you can get you can get training on this you can download the architecture uh documentation you can browse on it and then we have two main things I wanted to bring up as possible next steps one is creating and managing value streams from an SPM perspective strategic portfolio management I think that that's one of the things you were you were kind of highlighting here um but we are a leader in in the value stream management wave for Forester and the Gartner's um uh product market definition as well so this we're already pretty I would say mature when it comes to the VSM and managing software life cycle from end too so something you uh we can actually have a follow-up on so false questions I know we're right at time we have like one minute left but we answered lots of questions along the way yeah I think um with with the few seconds just want to thank everyone I think this is a great session great collaboration Mike mark thank you so much for coming on you've got some contact information here uh we do share all the materials and recording on YouTube or our YouTube channel and on the uh the.com on our community so you'll be uh getting all this information as well but thank you everyone for attending and have a great Thursday thanks everybody thank you great questions great interaction appreciate that