SEAN DAWSON: Hello, and welcome to the Distillery 
podcast, where we unlock the full potential of   ServiceNow, with expert insights and practical 
strategies, only on the Cask Distillery Podcast.  We’re gonna be talking today about solving the 
mystery of application development and ServiceNow.   I’m your host, Sean Dawson. I’m a client architect 
here at Cask. And with me is someone that I work   together with: Angi Williams. Welcome, Angi.
ANGI WILLIAMS: Hello. Thank you for having me.  SEAN: Angi is incredible. She has started out 
as an application developer in her career. She   got her Masters of Science in IT at University 
of Virginia. She really worked around aligning   digital to business strategy—which is one of 
the things that we’ll get into today—enterprise   architecture, and had been working in the federal 
space even while at school. She became ultimately   an ITIL four strategic leader and has over 20 
years of consulting in the federal government and   commercial spaces. Welcome, Angi, to the podcast.
And by the way, we’re gonna be talking with   Angi today about solving the mystery of 
application development in ServiceNow.  So welcome, Angi. Thanks for taking time out 
of your busy schedule to chat with me today.  ANGI: Thank you, Sean. I’m happy to be here.
SEAN: And I love your background. I mean,   you are, I know you’re traveling all 
the time, but my goodness. Thanks for,   thanks for bringing this to us today.
ANGI: I’m happy to. It’s   beautiful Washington State.
SEAN: Yeah, it looks great. I wish I was there.   I’ll be, I’ll be on vacation soon. So, let’s get 
into, you know, our, you know, the mystery of   application dev in ServiceNow. And the first thing 
I kind of wanted to talk to you about and ask your   opinion on is, “What is the mystery all about with 
ServiceNow and app development in ServiceNow?”  ANGI: Really, there are several mysteries 
that really encapsulate ServiceNow in custom   application development. One item is that 
sometimes the word “custom” has a negative   connotation, when really, custom should be 
embraced as long as it is done the correct way.  Then the mystery so far as custom application 
development is concerned is, you know,   “When do we need to make that decision, whether 
we’re going to use custom application development   or leverage an existing ServiceNow product, or 
it might make sense to do a mixture of both?”  SEAN: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a good point. I 
remember different things in my career. It’s   very similar, where you have to think about, 
“Are we gonna build, or are we gonna buy?”   And you could also look at buying as a module or 
consulting or help doing it. So, yeah, there’s a   lot to think about, but it’s a good point about 
doing it the right way is, is the key with that.  So is there anything else somebody 
should consider, you know,   within custom application development or 
why? Why should they even consider it?  ANGI: Absolutely. There are several 
considerations. First of all,   if there is a unique use case that is not a 
best fit to be developed on an existing PaaS   or SaaS product in their enterprise ecosystem, 
then custom app development is a great option.   Additionally, if the use case requires 
true innovative solutioning that does not   already exist in the marketplace, 
that is another opportunity.  Then an interesting aspect about that as well 
is that if there are certain accessibility   requirements for your users that cannot be 
achieved through an existing pass or SaaS product   in your ecosystem, then you will want to determine 
if a custom app development is the best fit.   Then finally, if the use case requires 
over-customizing an existing PaaS or SaaS   product, such as ServiceNow, that would 
result in an application that cannot be   easily maintained, enhanced, or scaled.
SEAN: Yep. And we call that, like,   “technical debt,” right?
ANGI: Correct. Correct.   That would result in technical debt.
SEAN: Yeah. And, I’ve also called it,   like, painting yourself into a corner. When I’m 
talking to people about doing something custom,   to your point, you want to do it right. You want 
to think about it and not paint yourself into a   corner. So as you’re . . .
ANGI: Correct.  SEAN: . . . two years down the road, and you’re 
trying to do something else, and you’re like,   “Oh my gosh, we have to either unravel 
and, you know, put resources towards it or   sometimes even replace for certain tools, 
not necessarily ServiceNow.” But yeah,   it’s definitely something great to think about.
So, is ServiceNow, in your mind, the best   place for custom application development?
ANGI: Great question. So, for determining   whether or not ServiceNow is the best choice for 
the custom application development, there are   a few factors you will want to consider.
First of all, for a rapid time to value,   with a high degree of flexibility. If 
you were looking for a shared data model,   for example, will the custom application leverage 
an existing data model in the ServiceNow platform?  Also, you can leverage the automation engine 
where you can actually use widgets to develop   a little bit faster than you would if you were 
doing a fully custom .net solution, for example.   Again, if you want to have a scalable 
solution across all lines of business   as well, you will want to look at 
ServiceNow for custom app development.  Additionally, another consideration is that 
if you already are invested in the ServiceNow   platform and you want to extract the maximum value 
of your investment, then you want to consider your   legacy applications and being able to develop them 
using ServiceNow’s automation engine. That way,   you can also leverage that through innovation.
And then, finally, I would recommend looking   at ServiceNow for app development if you see that 
there is an existing ServiceNow product and you’d   like to leverage some of the functionality for 
your custom application. That’s another wonderful   opportunity to leverage ServiceNow App Engine.
SEAN: As you were talking, I was thinking about,   you know, the background of ServiceNow. And I 
don’t hear it as much I . . . I don’t hear this   as much now as I used to, was “the platform of 
platforms.” And that was all centered around that   ServiceNow could connect and really do anything. 
And that’s kinda what you’re talking about there,   with App Engine and connecting, that 
ServiceNow was originally designed   outside of ITSM. It was built to connect 
things and build things. And ITSM came   first. So that fits right along with the great 
core of ServiceNow. It allows us to be able to   kinda build anything we want really cleanly 
and connect to stuff and build. I love it.  ANGI: Absolutely.
SEAN: So, you had mentioned a   couple of things. You have App Engine and existing 
ServiceNow product. So, should we use an existing   ServiceNow product, or App Engine, or both?
ANGI: So, that’s where you will want to make   that decision. And your consultant would be able 
to help determine what is the best combination,   or is it solely using App Engine or solely 
using a ServiceNow out-of-the-box product   such as ITSM. And that’s where the consultant 
will be able to analyze your specific use   case and determine whether it would make the 
most sense to leverage functionality from an   existing product and then also creating 
a custom application using App Engine.  SEAN: And on the other side, we had talked 
about, you know, is ServiceNow the best place   for application development. But do you have 
any markers or callouts, you know, to point   to know when ServiceNow is actually the right 
place to be at and the right place to build on?  So, a little bit of an an extension 
of that, if that makes sense, is there   something to look for in that regards?
ANGI: It might be easier to put it in   the context of when is ServiceNow App 
Engine not the best choice. And really,   you would want to think if there is already 
a specific niche technical functionality   already available in the market, such as CAD 
or Esri for geospatial products. Additionally,   the other item that you want to consider is that 
you do not want to custom develop a solution if   it’s already existing as a product and ServiceNow.
SEAN: Yeah, that, that makes sense. So another   side of this is the, is the business objective. 
So what are some examples of business challenges   solved through app development and ServiceNow that 
you’ve seen that we can, we can leverage and talk   about and highlight so people can relate?
ANGI: Absolutely. So we have actually had   the opportunity to develop hundreds of custom 
applications, leveraging App Engine as well as a   combination of App Engine and additional products 
in the ServiceNow line. One of the most popular   applications that we’ve done—actually, we’ve 
done it for many different clients—and that is   reservation scheduling. And this could be for 
all different types of reservations. It could   be scheduling for events such as conferences, 
meetings. It could be as simple as reserving   a space for an internal meeting, or even for 
external users who may have the opportunity to   leverage a space, for example, at a library.
And that is something that is not a directly   out-of-the-box functionality in ServiceNow. 
However, it does have the ability to leverage   workplace service delivery as well as create 
a custom application using App Engine. And   an example of that, we do have a client that 
actually hosts large events that is available   to watch on TV, with the entire world. They do 
need to manage VIPs. And for that, obviously,   that’s not gonna fit necessarily nice and neatly 
in the ServiceNow WSD product. So we were able to   leverage though the function from WSD, such as the 
calendar, which is a very powerful tool in there,   as well as create the rest of the unique 
use-case requirements through App Engine.  SEAN: And I, as you were talking, I, you got me 
kind of thinking: We’re talking about existing   things that we’ve done. But what about the the 
future? Is there anything you see coming in the   future? I know, you know, ServiceNow has obviously 
got a road map. But what do you see coming in the   future with regards to app dev, stuff that we’ve 
gotten from Knowledge 23, maybe some highlights   of, hey, here’s some things to look forward to. Do 
you have any input there or anything that you saw   from Knowledge that you, we could talk about here?
ANGI: I would say that one of the most   interesting aspects that I think 
sometimes can be overlooked—well,   when clients overlook accessibility, that is 
something that can actually have a financial   impact to a company or to an organization. And 
that is where we can really leverage ServiceNow’s   Application Engine to make sure that a solution 
can be developed so that your users will be able   to have the same experience as those users who 
do not require accessibility considerations.  I know that ServiceNow puts quite a bit of effort 
into making sure that their products can be as   accessible as possible without sacrificing the 
functionality. However, sometimes it’s going to   be very challenging to meet all the accessibility 
requirements that your users may need. And that is   where ServiceNow App Engine really does shine.
SEAN: So you’re talking, when you talk about   accessibility, you’re talking about 
it from, like, a service portal or,   you know, a front-facing thing, not exact, not 
like in UI16 or, you know, NextGen interface   and stuff like that. We’re talking about 
customer-facing stuff. That’s great stuff.   I know you put some effort into that too.
SEAN: So I have one last question for you   around how you uncover the value 
in application development. Like,   how do we determine is it worth it?
ANGI: Great question. And that really   is one of the most important aspects around 
determining whether it makes sense to use   ServiceNow App Engine or to use a ServiceNow 
product or actually to use a combination.  So there are a few items you’ll 
want to consider. First of all,   you want to make sure that you understand 
your business challenge and the audience to   solve for. You also want to be able to conduct 
a success planning and evaluation to know what   success looks like. What will the future state be? 
Also, you want to make sure that you conduct a gap   analysis of the products that you’re reviewing to 
your need and determine where do the gaps exist,   and can those gaps be met by doing 
custom application development using   App Engine or a combination.
Another important aspect,   and this is for both federal and commercial 
clients, is estimated time to value. Often,   there may be regulations or congressional 
mandates that dictate when you must have that   solution ready. And that’s where ServiceNow App 
Engine can really provide the benefits of being   able to rapidly develop a solution to meet those 
federal regulations or congressional mandates.  Additionally, you’re going to want to 
consider what do you own in ServiceNow,   and what does the platform already offer. That 
should be an important factor in decision-making.  Next—and this is another area where your 
ServiceNow consultant can really provide a quite a   bit of value—and that is being able to review the 
ServiceNow road map. So they would actually take a   look at what is to come in the ServiceNow product 
in the upcoming versions. They will want to   consider the cost estimate of addressing technical 
debt and rework. Should they develop something in   App Engine that may be forecasted to come out of 
ServiceNow’s existing product in a future version?  Additionally, along the same lines, 
tradeoffs: What innovation or   opportunities are we missing if we develop 
something that may come in a future upgrade?  Next, you can also think about if the ServiceNow 
existing product doesn’t meet your need,   you can leverage App Engine. And this, 
you will also want to think about,   well, maybe the product doesn’t meet our need 
completely, but it has some great functionality   that we can leverage. And that’s where you’ll 
want to consider whether using a combination of   App Engine and functionality from an existing 
ServiceNow product might be the best bet.  Additionally, App Engine provides another 
benefit: It allows you to ride under the security   umbrella of any existing security requirements, 
such as the authority to operate for the federal   government. That way, you can actually leverage 
the security controls that are already implemented   on the ServiceNow platform with just minor 
adjustments for your new application.  Finally, you can accelerate outcomes and 
reduce that technical debt. Everyone knows   legacy platforms are very difficult and 
costly to update, to maintain. And if you   are leveraging ServiceNow for App Engine to 
meet your business needs, then you can really   avoid that technical debt that’s created 
by maintaining those old legacy platforms.  So really, I mean, ServiceNow is an innovation 
engine. It’s built to empower you to innovate and   create customer applications, just like ServiceNow 
has done by creating/employing customer workflow,   ITSM, and others. And a point that I would like 
to make, as we mentioned earlier about sometimes   the negative connotation of the word “custom” or 
“customized,” ServiceNow is meant to be configured   in or customized using best practices and value 
scores to decide whether to pursue proposed   customizations. And you really can accelerate that 
value by creating custom widgets and applications.   The only, the warning that I would put out when 
you’re doing that, you just want to be cautious   when customizing the ServiceNow products 
by using the value scores that ServiceNow   has provided. But absolutely create custom 
apps and or widgets to increase engagement   and solve business challenges. That’s what 
it’s built for. It is an innovation engine.  SEAN: I like that. I like that term. You mentioned 
something earlier, you mentioned, it’s just the   word “business” in there. And I wanted to ask 
you about your opinion on this and what we could   guide, you know, our listeners to is. Typically, 
ServiceNow is considered an IT tool. It does so   much more than that. We know that. But you’re 
in that silo. Any advice for people that are in   the IT silo? When you’re thinking about a custom 
map, who should they be talking to? Is it just IT?  ANGI: Great question. It should not be just 
IT. You wanna talk to a few different types   of users. You want to talk to the business, the 
people who will be delivering the service for   that business need, but also your users. That is 
an important aspect. I think sometimes we in IT,   we like to assume that we know what the users 
want, but that’s not always the case. And it   is important to make sure that we understand 
the users, as well as the stakeholders in the   business, who will be delivering the service.
SEAN: Great, great. Thank you. Well, Angi,   I know you’re busy. Thanks so much for taking 
time out of your schedule to talk to us today.   And thank you so much for your advice and 
guidance here. And yeah, thanks a lot.  ANGI: Thank you so much. It was my 
pleasure. I enjoyed the discussion.