hello and welcome to the service Ducks podcast I hum co-host James downs and I'm Rush here and we're here to chat about all things servicenow everyday life as a servicenow consultant new features implementation successes and perhaps more entertaining when it doesn't go quite so well hello and welcome back to another episode of the service Ducks podcast this is episode number yeah we'll go with 17. um so yeah today we're going to talk about how or what tips do we uh would we say James to to help people bag their first service now job all right so I guess it's all about you've been through the training you've been through the the next gen you know service now you've got a bag your very first job right you're fresh into it what tips do we provide or what advice would we give to help people do that all right and that's going to cover different aspects such as CVS interview techniques yeah I'm perhaps expectations around their oil as well right so we're going to touch on that but before we do that right so let me just call out the the star this has been disastrous right isn't it setting this up um yeah so for those for those who can't see because I've got a background on right if you're only listening I put on a specific background you can usually see my office at the background we're having some work done on the house we've got the bathroom getting done which is right next to the office next week we've got the stairs getting done which is right the office so I'm downstairs in the living room here's a question right Living Room lounge or what's the other one front room room what do you go with do you know what I've I've probably use all three but I think out of anything dude you're talking to I don't think I don't think I'd ever say Lounge no I never say Lounge no living room yeah living room will go with laryngitis person yeah that black so I'm drinking diet coke again we're not sponsored by Diet Coke but if Coke does want to sponsor us then feel free to drop us a line um so anyway so yeah I'm downstairs um I'm about to move and we'll come on to that in a second however yeah however I am gutted right but when we came to meet today to record this that you didn't hit record straight away had you would hit record the start of this podcast would have been me literally on the floor in hysterics and if you can't see James right yeah picture a life-sized Orange [Laughter] size orange a life-size orange or perhaps a maybe a crayon maybe an orange crayon yeah that's not bad that's not a bad joke I'll just stop this is papaya rather than orange papaya is important when you describe let's just describe what you in fact describe that's what you're wearing James what have you got on there okay yeah a little bit of context I guess so what I'm wearing no no no no no it's not Lego context it's not just the case of yes I've got an orange hat on orange orange and that's it come on come on talk to us okay so recently I've been at the Formula One British Grand Prix um being a formula one fan since I've like five um complete like fangirling over certain things I went to the museum at Silverstone and they got all the old cars from the 90s and stuff like that but anyway um yes I'm there to to bought I followed Lewis Hamilton for quite a while uh now I'm kind of making that move towards you know the more up-and-coming British drivers and more uh Lando Norris who's number four that people watching can see on my cap uh who drives for uh McLaren which is exactly what you can see here so if you're one of those people that do go to the to the Grand Prix or the Formula One you'll see the majority of people would be wearing what I'm wearing right now very minimum cap which costs 50 Quid um hang on hang on stop there the cap that you're wearing right let's just describe it is an orange baseball cap with a black keeper right Peak that was 50 pounds this was 50 pounds yeah yeah well bear in mind that even the food and drink at the venue was you're talking about you know 10 pounds for a burger five pounds for a bottle of coke so bear in mind this this podcast topic is around helping people to get into the servicenow job and to almost talk to them about expectations around salary and we all hear that oh it may be massive and I'm about to say let's lower those expectations for your first job you're talking about a cap for 50 pounds right let's just put that in cold day yes it's called the hoodie the hoodie which is yeah equally as I'm not gonna give you the price you're like the Tango man Tango you've been Tangoed why didn't I think of that before I'll put this up to the camera of those who's listening onto this obviously but I got myself a little McLaren car a little dude 350 quid only 12 pound for that one uh but you know if you work hard and you know you've got to spend your money on something that's true what about the hoodie then come on how much was a hoodie I Wanna Know Hoodie hoodie 120 120 hundred and tweets about outfit of you hang on stand up have you got any shorts on no well I've got something literally but I did get a t-shirt as well which is similar to this so I think overall you're looking at over 200. damn which is a t-shirt I think the T-shirt was 60. wow so you've got sixth grid t-shirt 50 Quid cap this is all about um by the way if you've just joined us welcome to the let's talk about James's spending habits um podcast I've never spend money on myself by the way so I don't I most of my clients come from supermarkets and things like that so this is like one of those one-off things to be involved and yeah it's allowed it's allowed I'm not being mean I'm gritting you however it does you haven't got to answer to me right yeah does your other half know well did you play she likes it she likes it yeah yeah she's all good with it she might like it does she know the real cost no no no no that's what I mean does she like thickness no them details get um you know moved aside a little bit should I give you a tip because I'll give you a tip come on this is how my wife started I've noticed that my 10 year old started with this as well they start the sentence with that it used to be the insert value there right so if you start so when you're talking yeah you starting with the cap oh it used to be 130 quid but I got it for 50. hmm discounts yes yeah is it another bargain we can't afford to miss I know um but yeah we digress so yeah no you're looking good you're looking trim it suits yeah being Tangled so how was it and it wasn't a worker then no no it was a work event I went with my mates we've been planning it for a while and I've never been to the the British Grand Prix the only one I've been to is actually in Italy the Monza one which was equally as good yeah but no it's a really good event um I was there primarily uh because my my friend's 40th was last year so we one of the lifetime sort of things and yeah it was very good there's a lot of entertainment around around the circuit and uh like I say lots of food and drink and Ferris wheel and you know the rudimental and different Black Eyed Peas who have played on stage and stuff so did you have a boogie I bet you did you look like a boogie yeah yeah not even in your Orange Cab not now man no so what um and what work related stuff have we been doing since we last spoke um well since the last spoke um so a few things so I've been um so the thing I've been talking about recently about cmdb and cleaning up the cmdb and doing like regular oh yeah yeah that went live last week which was good um so we're now um yeah push it into production it was about four months in the way in so a lot of a lot of work went into it and that was I've got a question on this yeah this is relevant something on the other minute around um cmdb I don't want to say health but it's around service population yeah yeah population of services and stuff yeah have you got um so one of the ways in which you can monitor the the health or the correctness completely so whether you've got the right fields in the right classes yeah these rather seem to be held dashboard so you have you stood that is that something you've used in the project have you stood that up and not only have you stood it up in terms of saying this classes requires these mandatory CIS uh manager attributes have you gone a step further that says and this is for the cmdb manager role this is the person that's going to manage out and This Is How They you know what I mean the whole process Shabbat yeah and for this particular uh customer they um they have like a centralized unit or a seem to be team who are the ones responsible yeah what they will be moving to eventually is more of like a Federated model where yes the different technology owners will be owning the portion of the cdb which is what we're really pushing and um there's a lot of ocm and you know training and and stuff that you have to do as part of that to get them onboarded with that idea um but it makes sense yeah well we would definitely utilize the the health dashboard yeah um but this goes beyond that it goes a lot more into more data quality rather than just population um you know should this be connected to this rather than you know Services it's absolutely fine but is it csdm compliant is it what you're expecting is it um so you end up kind of fixing a lot of things that were you put in through like Integrations and or even Discovery out of the box you'll find patterns which are not csdm compliant or goes against what they're yes no that that's a good um that's a good takeaway for me actually because it it's you're quite right so a cmdb health yeah have you got the right attributes in but it's also the relationships it's not necessarily yes technically it's other relationships in place but actually you're right the tagline is is it csdm compliance I suppose yeah I like that I like I think you're gonna be stealing that um well the ultimate value really is the biggest leader for doing this is around the service impact so you mentioned around services and populating services and being on that kind of maturity journey of going to going from these kind of manually managed app Services um to a more dynamic or automated service mapping um and you know you can't get from one point to the other really quickly you have to have like a maturity Journey going into it um and obviously it's going to benefit everyone on the platform once it's done so yeah um that's interesting yeah I'm I'm totally mad and I'm stealing it and I'm going to pass it off as my own so aside from that cmdb stuff anything else to report that we should know I went to the dentist yesterday for absolute years and then I went because I've given up with the NHS dentist so I thought right I need to go private interest to actually be seen I've got a story on that go on behalf of yeah to finish off my story I guess is I went and I got one of the general kind of like new patient checkups they do in our in our dentist and they were like this was three months ago and they said right you need to get a filling here uh immediately because you're getting there's a hole that's going all the way down to your nerve um and the other side you've got a problem as well but don't worry about that for now so I went back yesterday and got my feeling done you know like nope this one's not working seem to come back immediately for that yeah it's annoying but you know what I hate tooth pain mate I I have to be honest it's the worst pain in the world um I don't know about this I can't vouch for this but I would assume toothpaste is worse than childbirth I'm gonna go I'll let them and say that and and let people roast me for it debate teeth issues right and I I this was it happened over lockdown so obviously they kept delaying And Delay right and I was NHS and I had to go in it turned out this is a disgusting story what are we talking about but anyway I needed an implant they said I needed an implant NHS patient now you need an implant and she said well it's going to cost you I can't remember two thousand pounds right um oh but if you if you um but if you do this this um plan with us you pay like 10 quid a month then then it all it comes down to this and whatever anyway I'm sat in the dentist chair thinking yeah all right then whatever 870 now that I look back and I realized it was at that moment they converted me to be a private patient right so it's like literally NHS patient one hour the next hour I'd signed up to say oh well if I sign up I get a deal on that implant why wouldn't I do it did you know what I mean it's like because I'm paying for it on tick so yeah and also like that's how they got is that how is that how we should work as service now do something for free go well actually now you've done that we'll just convert you over to paying a month to this paid service yes but yeah I'll tell you what all right I'll tell you what as part of my monthly subscription to my dentist I get like I'm not even gonna say free but a hygienist appointments two a year oh yeah yeah I don't bloody miss those I'm turning if I'm paying for them I'm going yeah yeah absolutely I don't delay loads they they've sorted out all the issues so yeah it's annoying and um I'm with you while the dentist they've got me yeah it's very easy to kind of push back and back because I know you don't you don't think that's not important it's all right I know I've lost two teeth up here one with the guy I think both of them were both from jelly beans I've seen I should have learned from the first time oh like really hard jelly beans the first so do you remember the Wham bars back in the 80s right my daughter had one of those she got it from Halloween Halloween yes I took it off and I went you're not having this you'll take your teeth out I put it in and it pulled my tooth out and that was the start that's exactly what literally within the same minute I went you're not having this it'll take your teeth out and I ate it it took one of the tooth out um anyway so I'll tell you what I've been up to um this week rather than well you've been here horror stories uh what's the to call out so yes I'm downstairs I'm in living room new setting new office look I like it yeah bathroom guys are in so it's quite noisy um work wise I've been playing with item so we've been doing some stuff around event management alert management event rules um rules but not on the standard typical it technology so different kind of operational technology so that's been done yeah that's good fun actually that's good fun um so having some I like the fact you gotta challenge yourself uh and and come across issues that you may not have seen before because of different texts um so they're still storing stuff in the cmdb still matching and doing that yeah do you know what I've been on many many projects now over the years where the cmdb is not and maybe this podcast in its own right right it seemed to be has kind of gone from this I.T place to store stuff with relationships to hey we can store other stuff in there now you know they're doing like um you know you've got points of sales and you know manufacturing operational stuff you've got telephony yeah but it goes Southern like you can you can put other other stuff that I can't think of right now um there's some stuff in there to build like a CME base so yes it's the same concept but just different um notes I guess nodes see interesting so is that event stuff is that with uh observability as well is it that side of things like dynatrace sort of thing or is it um that's pure like event alert there's more advances to the project at the minute it's just event alert insulin yeah yeah there's different phases um and in true agile we're kind of doing it um I can never say the word say it for me iterative this is iterating so yeah so the other thing I've noticed um that I've been looking and you might have seen some kind of support on LinkedIn around this and it's a real bug bear of mine this week and last week is there is an increased amount of chat GTP fluers so someone posted a comment and they put chat GPT fluids and I liked it right yeah logically liked it but although I thought oh that's a nice phrase or um yeah a a influencers DNA influences I don't know there must be a term there's gotta be a better terms they're appointed let me rant for a second the pointer is an increased number of people that are painfully obviously going to chat GPT writing in a phrase copying the whole thing and putting it on LinkedIn and and I'm going to say it right now that's not acceptable right because one it's not been sense checked to some of the information from Jack to chat GPT you gotta remember this is only trained up to 2021 right so it's not today yeah and you've got people that are less experienced perhaps are reading it and going yes that's good thanks look why not convince one LinkedIn is the right place to put things like code Snippets somewhere but I'm not convinced it is I don't know but it is kind of like is it archived how do you search for it um is it useful or is it you just happen to see it at the point in time in which case it might be useful but you can't look back I don't know but it so you know your problem using chat gbt no your point is it's okay to to use it it's just sanity check it and is make it more personable right we said this right at the start these tools are going to be with us and we need to learn how to use them you know I think that's fantastic I'm not a hater don't get me wrong yeah but I think you need to learn how to use it I need I think you need to understand the subject topic that you're talking about and if you don't that's why you you can use jumping T to educate yourself but then put in your own words you know if you can't explain something within three sentences to a child then you probably don't expect don't understand it enough right so yeah my bug bear is the copy and paste and put it in and you can tell it's been company based and the last two weeks I've noticed other servicenow um industry technical um people calling those out saying hey we know that's chat GPT and I think all that's going to happen is if people continue to do it they're just going to get unfollowed I've got three strike rule there right if you were to put a chat GPT thing on three times a row I know so you're getting on follow disconnected not interested yeah but what if it was obviously chat GPT written but the content was good is it still a problem for me yeah yes it is because I can do that it doesn't mean so I've understood it yeah but if it's useful information to be shared or worded better no no good no no not happy no chat if you're gonna do that take it off readjust it add it to LinkedIn that's fine put your own brand on it that's the whole point of social media you cannot in my book copy and paste from chat GPT into LinkedIn don't care yeah you want to take me on send me a comment send an email in I'll have a conversation about it no problem I'm annoyed yeah I think uh social media I think I completely agree with you um about it's you it's not you it's not a picture of a robot on your picture yes it's you that you're representing but it should be your ideas let me not downplay what you said there because you raised a good question I hadn't thought about is it okay to take it off chatney BT if it's useful and post it into LinkedIn is that okay if it's useful um and my goal reaction is no it still annoys me and I don't I don't know why I can't tell you exactly why but it still annoys me because you've got people out there um I can name a few James Benson Robert Frederick um Alan uh Andreas posting in the Tim Woodruff there's loads posting useful stuff but you can tell that they've thought about themself right the the there's some thought behind it I guess I thought leadership right you can't just copy and paste and chat upt and say that's my thought leadership over and done with yeah is that what you're following for you're following people for them and their original thoughts yes rather than following people for a copy and pasted on to that you could have got by just asking about PPT absolutely yes I like that or go with that but you asked a good question I hadn't thought about but I'm still annoyed by it yeah I'm I'm still not sure what my permission is on it to be honest I mean I I know what you mean you can obviously see it when it happens yeah it doesn't particularly annoy me or maybe there's something that people just need to get used to as well perhaps like we're gonna see it more and more often and a lot of us foreign how are you going to tell the difference between you know in years to come are you going to tell the difference between James um the the orange Tango darrens and unless you actually know me like you would like you would know I mean you'd call me out straight away it's like ah what you've done there yes that's not you yeah you're like it's not you but anyone else like you know I've got hundreds of connections on LinkedIn who don't know me personally who may have heard me on a video or something but don't know me personally wouldn't wouldn't no no you make a good point um and I think I'll cross that bridge when I come to it but for now I'm gonna remember him to be annoyed if you copy and say free strike you're out of there yeah warned let's get back on topic so anyway so I've been having a lot of conversations with various people in multiple different countries right around the whole nexian thing because I think I've said before it intrigues me how we go from this um this service there at BM off that says well I want to train a million people in 12 months or whatever it is right and they've got different mechanisms to do that you've got next gen rise up different apprenticeship extra um ship kind of things going on and it's intrigued me that people come out of this training brand spanking new and go right let's get a job rub their hands together yeah and I'm ready yeah it it it's kind of how do people make that jump how do they land that job and what jobs are out there for them to land because yeah we gain people it's it's okay to say yes these people are trained but are the jobs there for them to walk into okay and and the way I'm I'm looking at this and this is again I've had multiple conversations is that there's not always that buoyant Market um that we're led to believe out there ready for those people to walk into right so how do you that's true how do you walk out of the trading and get yourself in such a position you are best placed to get baggage opens up there yeah okay so that's the topic for today is a good site it's an interesting one well it's something that is in is intrigued to me a lot and the one thing that I I've spotted with jobs that are available is a lot of places are asking for experience there right I need two years experience on the platform yeah yeah you know um yeah if you think about it you know everything's moving faster nowadays isn't it everything's going quicker people want more they want lots of things and they want it quickly are they expecting you know are they expecting to to say yes okay we'll take someone with no experience and train them on the job I would suggest probably not because they want stuff done quickly you want some Educators some some experienced people so they want that return on investment pretty fast I would think in terms of yeah who they hire yeah and would you say that the lay of the land kind of changed since when we first like got involved with so is now like I think it has but I think I think the message hasn't I think the message is still the same right I think there's still let's face it right we've been in the industry for over 10 years and I think it's always been the Market's been quite boring for service now there's been I don't feel bad saying that because that's the whole point in the whole Rise Up program it's like we've got a massive demand for for technical or servicenow people got huge demand that we can't meet therefore we're going to train someone that tells me the Market's good yeah it is good right so that is a fact um but at the time so going back years ago it was like the market is good therefore all the salaries are quite good and I still think that's the case but I don't think that's a blanket statement across everyone I don't think you can I I think the whole carrot that's been dangled in front of people that are getting trained saying the Market's really good you're going to get a good salary I think that's the wrong expectation to set yeah you're saying to these people that aren't experienced that are go and get trained get your servicenow admin exam um get that certificate ticked off and you're going to get a good salary I think that's wrong to set that expectation yeah no I agree in mind yeah and I remember when I um when I first joined a partner and this goes back to a video that we did our first episode actually the holy pigeon the only pigeon we talked about our Journeys into into service now and um I think back then a lot of the kind of entry points into it is being like a customer first I think majority of people who ended up being a service now expert is people who have just happened to come across it being a customer and it's a tool that you've you know your organization bought into and you would have had that working experience right exactly you'd have you just have that working experience of being an admin you're you're the dedicated person as an admin for your instance sort of okay and then that's your experience you can get into you know being a service now professional that way so let's let's delve into that Gap a little bit there right so yeah if from what I'm seeing and I'm understanding and again these are my um these are my views that and things I'm figuring out right so if we say the the jobs are when you're looking for an entry level job it's looking for experience how do you if you can't physically get like this how would you get experience that aids that right and one of the ways that you could say worked with servicenow on the service desk that is a level of experience and then it comes down to how do you display that experience in interviews how do you display it in CVS yeah yeah and yeah that's going to be key I think how are you how you tailor your your CV um to highlighting those particular areas and I think for me when I when I joined I didn't have any service now experience I think maybe I locked into it because I knew somebody um which is probably another point we're gonna come across in terms of networking um being one of our tips but being able to I think we've talked about this loads in the past about it's not just about showing that you've had servicenow experience as well it's about showing your core skills and maybe in the next gen programs and these other programs are not as concentrating in them particular skills the kind of skills that we've learned being on like service desks having communication skills customer skills yeah um you know problem solving skills which I like it I value a lot more compared to you know someone who is servicenow expert but it doesn't have any of those skills I like it I like it so let me let me see if I can just just phrase that slightly differently so so what you're saying is it's about you might not be able to get servicenow direct experience right so let's say the job you come out of next gen you've got your qualification and or any other training program not just next gen you've got your color forget you go over jobs that says entry level or x amount of experience that you may not have service now specific experience but you will have transferable skills that you can display and I think that's a massive key so in terms of your CV and certainly an into the interview process focus on the positives that you can bring to the table not on the things that you haven't got not on the oh I haven't got a service day experience oh I haven't mucked around cmdb much focus on the transferable skills that you do have have you worked in a customer service role so I mean how does that transfer to customer service module or application service there yeah exactly how does it help you understand that or do you see what I mean have you worked in a warehouse therefore you understand a bit more about Hardware Asset Management than many people yeah perhaps you've been involved in agile teams and been involved in you know how projects generally go with service now have you as definitely a key tip yeah focus on the transferable skills that you've got and tailor in your CV and in the interview and help get that that across and what kind of how you can transfer those skills and what value they bring to that situation that's number one I like it yeah you know what I'm going to throw into the mix oh no go on go on you were going now I was gonna ask you a question like because I do a lot of interviews mainly at like the architecture level or senior tech level but yeah um when it comes to interviews for like Junior techs or you know Associates or something like that um how much do you go into understanding the actual platform or asking questions around just servicenow itself I don't feel German you can be so siled in terms of yes servicenow can do this and that but how much do you actually understand the Journey of this is what servicenow is what kind of platform it is where they're going um I don't tend to answer questions that's kind of an open thing in terms of like you know is it a good thing for people to spend time just understanding what servicenow is where it's come from I like that that is that is brilliant right so let me ask you this question yep if I'm trying to think of how to phrase this right if I said to you I'm only in the servicenow industry for money would you look down on me yes right yeah so so I understand no exactly you don't you'd understand but I think those of us who are in the servicenow industry are passionate about service now this it likes a weird cult it is it is right I feel weird saying that and palmy doesn't even like it but I'm gonna do it anyway but I think those of us that are in the industry are really passionate about what we do and we I'm yet to meet someone that hates doing what they do I think we all enjoy it yeah so the reason I asked you about the the in it for money is because I think someone needs to that people should display how they are passionate towards service now yes so if you're coming that's probably something that's my point quite nicely actually yeah yeah you're coming into the industry and going all right okay I I want to bag this job for me you've got to display your passion for the platform to whoever's interview yeah because if James and I are like that the chances are the person that's interviewing is exactly the same they're going to respond to that passion yeah um it's like guy Martin do you watch guy Martin you know so guy mind does Audi TT racing but you always say he's like an engineer and does things like um does speed challenges or whatever he is the most passionate enthusiastic guy you'd ever meet and even if you don't like Motor Racing or TT racing you can't help but get enthused what he's talking about because he's so passionate yeah so I think that's another topic is this part of the problem for us because I mean this is a very difficult question to ask like those in the next gen program or why are you there why are you doing the program you know are you doing because of this passion that you know is this amazing platform you've heard about and you know can do all these cool stuff and all the AI stuff coming or is it because you've heard that it does good salaries probably the best salaries out there you know an itsm I think I think only the people have been through the course and that are in the process can answer the why I think that that's a good what be your gut reaction though would you say it's 50 50. what's your gut reaction in terms of people who how many people as a percentage are in it for the money or they do why do why do I think people do it I think the initial pull is probably to do with the salary now my gun action but again so I'm based on I'm basing that on no facts At All by the way people you can have both can't you you can be passionate and still be you know enthused by having good salaries but if you've been through the course right let's say you were pulled initially to do the course based on Saturday so I told you oh yeah this job um or you know go go for this industry it's well paid I think one you need to lower your expectations I think that will come like it will with any other industry but you have to work hard to do right you have to be passionate about what you do along with editing if you're going in it going oh I'm going to get a good salary straight off the bat I think lower expectations straight away um yeah but I think you won't Nothing in life I mean you'll get pulled into something based on salary right but are you gonna stick at it just because of that all because you actually start enjoying it yeah generally it's not just this yeah this is just my opinion we've got transferable skills highlight those lower your expectations initially yeah it would be another um key one yeah and I think display your passion for the platform that's a brilliant one um would be one of mine what about in terms of looking for the role so again if you think about how how you look for a rock let's say you come out there at the course um whatever it is where do you start your search right because my default would be probably I'd have a look on LinkedIn I don't know whether things like read or total jobs is a thing anymore probably not for Iris I don't know recruiters I know but that's because I know of them if you're threatening to it you don't know of any so you're probably just going to go on Google Google servicenow jobs yeah so a part of this is not just tailoring your CV it's tailoring your personal profile on social media platforms as well so you can be found and yeah and and tailoring your search criteria yes yes yeah so if I Google I mean I'm going to do an app service now jobs UK right so I'm this is this is why British people will do this is what envisage people will do top hit LinkedIn Bang Yeah top hit LinkedIn yeah I answer it should I pick it up should we see who it's gonna be cool hello yes no that's that's all right I'm okay thank you right people like with Carphone Warehouse yeah anyway sales calls sorry yo jiggling upgrade on your phone it was that was like no you're all right and then they hang up on you but they realize oh I'm not gonna scam that guy right so anyway I've typed in sir I mean I think this is jobs yeah LinkedIn is is really I don't know if it's just kind of come out of nowhere this kind of community on LinkedIn and that's how you get your job so that's how you you know connect with people and or it didn't seem to be as much back it back in our day no it wasn't um Joe I mean you'd speak to luxury or total jobs or something like that or you'd you know maybe try and reach out to the companies themselves um to see what's what's happening what's going on or you go to their websites to see if they've got any any jobs yeah that's a good point that's a good point but then but then yeah yeah I mean I mean I've just typed in servicenow jobs UK and linkedin's the first here and I'm scrolling through and it's not easy to identify what experienced people are looking for right but you you just made the point there is directs the website so absolutely I would suggest go direct partners and go direct to customers that perhaps use service now and you can find that out quite easily on LinkedIn you know um yeah go go direct and that's that's definitely a consideration like you said maybe maybe think of that route whether partner is the best route for you or whether to be part of a kind of wider team or a customer where maybe you're involved with other things not just servicenow um so it's that could become too complete you've been on both sides of the coin there being a customer and being a part of the partner and Contracting so um you've seen it from all all kind of sides and what you're going to get from it is going to be different absolutely I mean I'd say when I was a customer we had that time to learn that that time um to be able to learn on the job I think with a partner you're not I don't I mean it it depends which pilot right because you you've got um your Enterprise Partners you've got your boutique partners and and one one yeah is going to give you more time to learn than the other I would guess um I don't know which way around but they're going to look at different things it depends how you'd like to learn as well so if you maybe if you are thrown in the deep end and you're do not mean go you've joined a partner you've been chucked onto a customer to do with an area service now that you've never heard of before or you've never read up a boat and let me tell you that's common that's gonna happen oh yeah come across some situations where you don't have the prep time and you have to think on your feet and this is where it really comes down to your core skills again about how you learn and how you kind of prep and how you read up on these things and how you adapt so rather than your call so there's no skills absolutely I mean I I'm just while I've been listening intently by the way but whilst I've been listening absolutely intently I've been doing something else but I've just been looking at these jobs right so you know if I'm looking at servicenow admins on LinkedIn I'm just looking so not one so I've clicked on three not one has said years experience required that's interesting this one this is for admin roles this one's looking for implementation of itsm management tools um one has got uh one's got experience of SN admin or similar again if you've been like Azure I mean maybe you can probably play the transferable skill one's got uh hang on demonstrated so designing and developing processed based Solutions again if you worked in McDonald's and perhaps implemented a new way of replenishing the straws you could you could sell that in an interview so I think it's by um how do you look at these criteria and kind of tailored for what you've what you've previously been doing yeah I think um yeah before I get too distracted on that I think we need to start wrapping up I think for me I think the key points are this I think coming straight into the industry um with no service no background or experience I think one highlight the transferable skills that you have gotten do that so do so on your CV and within an interview to really display passion about the service now industry um talk about what apps you built talk about are different issues or um challenges and that's a good one it's an outcome based delivery so not just on your CV hello I implemented a new straw process for McDonald's it's why and what did it achieve so it managed to achieve a two-minute reduction in turnaround time the drive through Windows yeah think about the kind of the why right I think lower not lower reset expectations around I'm coming into the servicenow industry this is what it means and this is the journey it's taking me it's not just a quick fix I think just understand that you're on a journey you're on a journey it's the same with my accounts um white kids watch TV right they get really annoyed and frustrated with adverts because they're used to Netflix they're used to Disney they used to Crime Prime still has habits but they're used to things happening so quick they've got no patience for a delay so I would say yeah realign expectations in terms of um what job and salary to to come out with initially and that'll come um yeah and I would say look in terms of when you're searching for a job don't just try LinkedIn there are other um servicenow job websites out there but also looks but I mean I've just done a hitting service now I've got a LinkedIn with servers now I've got over 40 pages right yeah so perhaps start refining it based on words like admin or sis admin or administrator or entry or something like otherwise you're going to get lost in things like specialist technical lead you know what I mean technical consultant probably a bit a bit too high yeah yeah what I would say is if if you are listening to this watching this and you're one of those people who are looking to bag there first servicenow job get in contact with us I think speak to people uh networking was another thing we haven't really touched on too much but yes speaking to people getting opinions um of people who are in the profession for years people who do the interviews you know day in day out and will be able to guide you in terms of how you should tailor your CV how you should present yourself how you should showcase your um you know your skill sets and equally for any recruiters that do watch this and I know in LinkedIn a lot kind of follow-up page as well and you know plug plug if you don't follow something go ahead and do that yeah um yeah any recruiters out there uh who are maybe even specialize in this particular area and finding you know first jobs for service now professionals just reach out to us as well may well be that we can help you find these people um or help you help them uh we founded their first job so yeah recheck okay so thank you for listening to um watching our podcast um I've been James and I've been Russ this has been the Seven Stars that's all for today's podcast thank you for listening and if you want to get your question answered by the service Ducks get in touch through talk to the doc at service hyphandux.com or just use one of the links below thank you [Applause]