thank you hello and welcome back to the service Ducks we are live please do not swear um yes so this is a episode 16 now um we'll be talking about a little bit more that we've been talking about recently actually around working from home we know a lot of people do work from home we talked about meetings recently this one's all about how do you actually stay productive working from home what are your strategies um are you actually more productive working from home compared to being in the office so yes I'll be talking through all those good kind of things the techniques and different things that we do from home will be discussing what we do as as uh obviously servicenow Architects and developers what we do working from home um and yeah debating it and seeing what works what doesn't work um so yeah but before we dig into that let's first about find out what Russ has been doing in the last couple of weeks yeah we've got our um 10 minutes standard obligatory waffle um so if you want to get to the topic just skip ahead 10 minutes um well yes well well the one thing I was gonna pick you up on actually he said please do not swear we can do whatever we like right well post pre-water shared or whatever yeah and when this gets thousands of views in the future demonetized well right let me tell you let me tell you let me tell you so and I write stuff down see I come prepared oh so there has been so it all it's all kind of a plan that we talk about different topics that are you know kind of planned um one of the recent things I've been interested in if you listen to uh last week's episode is around 80 of us work from home now and what does that mean and the whole informal chat stuff right so it's like a lot of us um spend time because we're working from home we spend time in formal meetings structured meetings where there's some kind of uh set forth um I can't think of a better phrase set forth outcome to those meetings right and then it comes into the question around what happens to those informal chats I mean you and I do this right so this is an informal chat I hope it comes across but this is an informal chat it's just a structured involve chart anyway so um waffle waffle coming off the back of that I went into the office last week so I like most people 80 of those people work from home I went into the office um I kind of went in because I hadn't seen a few work colleagues um for a few months and I thought oh I'm gonna go for a couple of drinks afterwards do a bit of socializing but do you know what I think there's only about four of us in right but we managed to have myself and another architect had architect had a conversation for 20 minutes and it was a oh have you got five minutes conversation with usually turned into 20 yeah of course yep oh excuse me um and we had one of those conversations where I managed well we managed to answer a question he was debating and one I was debating within 20 minutes and it was if you're interested it was about at repo it was about now we're supposed to be using we've done another podcast on this and now we're supposed to be using App repo as opposed to update sets how do you deliver two work streams so you be a you and your um Enterprise Project work stream yeah or velocity product work team sorry at the same time without taking someone else's config how does that work in the real world um so 20 minutes we managed to bash that out and disprove some stuff and then I had a number of conversations just outside perhaps having a beer while having lunch they're informal just general chaps that for me was so productive they were so productive and and it was just I don't know if it's just good fun so I've been doing that um that was in London of course I got my scooter in fact I will um I don't know whether you can see this right oh actually scooter gate so I do this and I send it to the kids um here you go hang on you can see me I don't know if you can see this right let's see if this works gone is he me there he is yeah I do that and I send it to kids because I am a big child and my kids think it's funny um but that was the day that my children's scooters got stolen from mate there's been those are the first two that went after that there's been about another four that have gone so my plan is I'm tempt I said I'm tempted to go and buy a second-hand scooter right for like five quid 10 quid there's a GPS tracker on it yeah um anyway so yes I got my scooter um in London um we had um a couple of beers one this was interesting actually so the the office that I work in downstairs they've got a kind of swanky bar and it is quite Swanky right it's nice it's got um brick walls and wooden floors and everything right quite quite New Age I'd say I I feel quite old when I'm in there let's be honest um but it took and it it's kind of a um a funky bar and it took for a moment I said can I have four pints please to them actually being delivered bear in mind I'd been served was an arrow one hour to which we get the and I said Is it supposed to have you ever tried a Belgian sour beer where it's sour yeah right I was like is it supposed to be a sour beer no I thought maybe feel really weird right because I tried this beer and everyone else on the table is me right we're all quite old um and we all agree this is either off or it's a sound of beer right yeah yeah there's one of these craft beer things and I took the pipe to the benefits of working so I took the point to the barman the bar manager and I said is this supposed to be sad I said try that now what normally happens in a is the barman takes a sip and goes no yeah no no this guy went actually went oh no I can't do that well he he then he then took us and I thought oh he's going to sip it put the straw in the point and that's it yeah he took a straw dipped it and nicked the end of the straw now I thought I find that found this quite amusing um and I discussed with my work colleagues who also found it quite amusing but I was like is that what kind of covid has turned us into where people can't possibly touch that oh come on man yeah yeah almost about I know a few people like that who would be the same or you know they would they'd wear gloves bringing in the shopping where Tesco delivers your home stuff like right gloves on let's leave them a few days to uh yeah yeah some people really like suffer from the anxiety I think of potentially catching covid yeah yeah and there was one other Tale on the train on the way home that I don't know whether I can say in this podcast so I'll talk to you about it warship but it was it was one most moments um not of my life because I'd leave the sad life if that was case but it was one of the best moments I've ever seen or heard um better than the neighbor falling over in the snow it was it was on a part pulling on the float it was poo related okay yeah right yeah I think our audience can resonate with who related um anyway moving swiftly on um been doing more design-based stuff today data table schemas um data stream I've been getting involved in data stream actions influence oh yeah playing with those expect a YouTube video out some people keep your eyes out and the other thing I've been doing haven't I had me oh God enjoys your update they don't and the other thing I've had is I've had quite a few people um on LinkedIn direct around let's talk about next gen and how we bridge that okay the next gen person and I've been trained and how do I get this get a job so I've been having quite a few um conversations with different people I spoke in Florida uh last week because it's something um there and keen on I've got another couple of calls I've got one tomorrow one next week just trying to find out a bit more about what's going on um in that space and how I can help out as much as I can so that's been quite useful it's busy busy yeah so this one you've obviously opened up on your own service nerd website the ability for people to kind of put on these kind of chats I have I I've got some calendar Lily app which is on my website which to be fair is WordPress plug two minutes and it allows people we said it didn't we um it allows people to book like 30 minutes slot with me over my lunch hour so we can just chat and I will say if anyone's um listening and fancy the chat go for it but right bear in mind you are using my lunch time [Laughter] comes with a very structured format no no no no no yeah let's have an informal chat but you've got to have this as an agenda no it's got to be about me yeah it's all about me no the point I was going to make is Google Hangouts and stuff but I might expand that to other platforms because I have to walk my dog at lunchtime and I have to have lunch so I'm quite happy yeah yeah yeah I don't think that's okay that's my update really yeah build up some sound effects so what we'll do somewhere yeah no one's interested in you let's get to the topic yep okay so today come on come on tell us I have any meetings been in let me ask you a question let me ask you a question right yeah how many meetings were you in six you're gonna go for six all right well I'm sorry I'm gonna go straight to my calendar and I'm gonna tell you last Thursday have you got access to my calendar one two three four five five I was close okay yes so that was a bit of fun so yeah anyway what have you been up to I mean that was that was majority of the day as well these aren't like 15 minutes 30 minutes meetings either so you know by the time you have all the meetings we've got about an hour left to do stuff um but yeah what I've been up to um so last uh last week um I was invited to do a tech talk um which was quite interesting so it was internal to hand in the jar dxc um so it was to The Wider DXE practice um to talk about servicenow so obviously dxc do a lot more than just servicenow service now is just one part of their Enterprise apps offerings and um we were there to just demonstrate um the power of service narrow and I had a nice little section around low code and AI which is definitely the area which I'm trying to kind of pigeonhole myself into a little bit more um to you know demonstrating the the abilities and capabilities of that I think I want to make yeah yeah pigeon holders yeah yeah okay you can't use um but in terms of talk and uh well basically what I want to know is the podcast you had a captive audience there did you do it I did have a captured audience I mean there was I think there was over 600 there watching I didn't no I know we could have got all them followers on LinkedIn we're above 300 now um yeah no I didn't I didn't but I do push it quite regularly internally they probably hadn't heard enough of it by now but gotta get your foot and RAM it down the throat yeah so you're not following are you um yeah no it was it's good to be involved in them sort of things because there's a lot more than just servicenow out there it's about understanding how like we can work together creating more of an Enterprise offering and you know um just showing what we do it's good to because a lot of us are part of Partners who are you know quite big and you know a lot of times you can just be siled and just your service now thing but yeah was the much or was it just you talking because there's nothing worse well it was a webinar so a lot of interactions were through just questions on the chat and things like that um there was a lot of like you know oh that was really interesting to hear and learn about what you do but because I want there wasn't specifically servicenow people you know at the beginning we did like a poll of right who's actually heard of servicenow and you know who's actually had experience with it and majority of them was like yeah I've heard of it but I'm not an expert in it but it is it is a challenge I could say ourselves before the end of the year is each of us have to do one of these podcasts on our own to see how difficult it is can you imagine that people actually do that though didn't they they just talk yeah yeah that'd be weird that'd be weird um anyway that was fun that was one thing and I guess the second thing that was that happened last week was sports day um I think that's uh Global thing isn't it generally you get Sports dating kids schools um thoughts tend to be Global yeah I'd say yeah but sports day specifically and I think one thing which we all get excited for and something that we do specific maybe in the UK only I don't know but there's a dad's race there's a dad's race there's a mum's race and you're guaranteed that there's at least one person that's going to fall over there was it you please tell me it was you it was not me it was not me oh that was quite interesting is that halfway down the little strip and it was about 100 meters Dash I think it was it wasn't like a 20 meter thing will do it there was a little dip in the middle there was a few people that came for all of that but um did people fall over did they actually fall over yeah yeah yeah full-on face plant yes can you imagine if you're the kid and your dad Falls over how embarrassing yeah when your mum did this yeah oh where did you come then you win uh no I did really badly um as you know we do running but I consider myself more of a long-distance did you do really badly but from the winner or did you do it every really badly and you'd have lost well I didn't get a sticker you know oh sorry but you know I did second last I'm going to come out and say it second last that's right who was last the person that fell over on their face [Laughter] that was all right um I never I never get to make it um and I don't think they um a dance race they're not no I don't think so I've never done yeah I mean come on look at me I'm like some bolt kind of 40 year old bloke my excuse is that the school's quite near a lot of like you know army bases and RAF bases excuses coming in excuses uh no please so we've established that you ran a race which is good yeah are they badly yeah I participated that's well done um yeah come on let's get let's go back on topic how long have we spent now talking rubbish we're spending 17 minutes yeah I can't even edit this out it's live I know I know right let me start the topic then so this is one that obviously um we take turns a lot of time to choose a topic and we're on the same theme as you know homeworking and you know mental health and all this sort of thing and productivity is what we're talking about so it's about the being able to master the art of remote working but um looking into those strategies and techniques they use to stay in productive from home but I guess this is my first kind of leading question into this is that do you feel that you are actually more productive working from home compared to when you were in the office yes yes let's move on let's just delve into why is that it yeah yeah I'm frankly he wanted to talk at the time yeah no um so yeah so essentially the the facts actually back that up so I'll be doing a little bit of delving into facts and things and it's yeah no this is what's happened you've done some research yeah and you've you've you've orchestrated the topic of the podcast to be around your you can go according to recent research yeah I know your game well the LinkedIn [Laughter] I mean it backs up what you've been saying to be honest because it is apparently 13 more productive compared to being in the office I think in the office there's always the I've already talked about it like the informal chats you know there's always people that's going to come up and having more informal chat at work because they're suddenly not sitting in your office with you at home to then just annoy you um but there are destructions from home as well um and basically I've been asking a few different people what they've been doing to try and you know maximize their day um you know whether there's distractions it could be your mobile phone could be you know your other half or your children that keeps coming in or your dog that you have to let in every few minutes yeah um yeah it's just to kind of discuss that and see what see what you do and see what I do and see what everyone else does just to kind of maximize the you know productivity so for me this topic is really quite simple um am I more productive at home than if I was in an office foreign okay okay maybe it's not simple right am I getting more work done at home than I'm in the office absolutely 100 hands that have done because I can zone out I can stick my music on I can just crack on right yeah am I more productive for everyone else I don't know maybe not right because those again that 20 minute conversation that I had with someone in the off yeah they were probably more productive because it allowed them to answer requests yeah I lasted a couple of weeks in that kind of sense maybe for other people at the level that we're at I mean you're a you're a uh to you I'm a bit of a mentor I guess an elite Dev if we're all in one room in the office it may be more productive as a team but as a personal individual I'm fun um yeah oh excuse me sorry that's direct coach that one of the diet coke moment are available home it's quite easy for me the only thing that distracts me is I mean the dog's quite old now so she keeps yeah but other than that I don't get an engine but the amount of delivery drivers oh ringing the door that's an annoyance yeah but you know I get distracted and go oh I'm gonna go to the park or I fancy going down the shop or I'm gonna go make tea for everyone for three hours yeah it doesn't happen just no never yeah I'm quite disciplined so yeah but back then because I get for some people this might be a this might be a topic that some people either don't want to discuss or be honest about right in terms of yeah yeah I do nip off and go and get my hair cut for three hours or whatever right yeah is it like the demographic of people right is it because you've got different what they call like you've got um gen Z Gen X yeah Boomers and everything is it different did I mean do we think in different demographic types will have different answers maybe yeah maybe and I think it probably depends based on your own um circumstances as well for example um I'm Reliant to do the school run so a lot of the time you know there'll be a period of time in the day hang on hang on hang on hang on with the school run after just coming second to last in the school let's go walk the school walk the school yeah the school amble yeah yeah so yeah there'll be there'll be times where it's you know I need to be able to do that whereas if it was me back at the office then potentially that's you know it's more of a taboo thing it's like whoa why are you leaving the office you know to go and do the school run it's a lot more flexible these days part-timer yeah yeah exactly yeah oh you're going home early are we yeah yeah yeah whereas um yeah it's a different yeah it's a different time where you know it's a lot more flexible for you to do that but I think generally you probably end up working a lot more time in the day as compared to when you you were at the office I think because at the office you'd maybe turn up at nine or something you go home at five or whatever the situation is at home I think majority of time for me anyway I end up working through a lot more lunch times like lunch breaks um there'll be the odd call in the evening where you know I feel that it's okay for me to do because yeah yeah you know I'm used to working working through lunch for me is just a no-go you need that time I think if I'm being honest before covid I always used to work through lunch always and and I was working from home then right after covid um it's more of a uh out that hour that I can have to myself right yeah anymore at all yeah yeah so that's that's me yeah no that's definitely something that I would I need to improve on and there's something that I'd hold my hand up and say I don't do that enough um it it makes me then kind of like you know take smaller breaks during the day and just fine food at that point when I'm hungry which may not be the best thing for like my own lifestyle and diet you know just kind of pick go down to the fridge grab a chocolate bar or whatever yeah that's the bad thing is it nibbling nibbling yeah so you said you'd asked a bunch of people is like I saw your LinkedIn Post in terms of productivity and and what I guess what concerns people have in terms of um working from home what's the answer you got yeah oh and if I only put it on LinkedIn not too long ago so there's only so so many responses but it seems to be when I asked this internally as well same the same things were coming up and it was number one was time management in terms of um being able to block out time to achieving your kind of goals for the day um yeah I think they find that a lot of the time um they're after you know join ad hoc meetings or you know their ping during the day and these things happen we've you know we've gone through this before but um yeah that and both uh this phone so I've been having a distraction of your phone and um I don't personally go through it I kind of ignore my phone unless someone calls me or whatever um what tends to work for them is to lock their phone away unless they need it to you know do some kind of multi-factor authentication um you know sign on for some kind of system um they will tend to lock the phone away to kind of create this kind of vision of just concentrating on their work um so I've got feedback from two particular people and they're happy for me to name them as well so bin and Ryan from DXE pounding the jar um so they go back to me and they told me their techniques for managing their time basically and I thought I'd run this by you and see what you think um so Ben came back to me and said that what he does was he blocks his time almost regimently like even as granular as 15 minute blocks in his schedule um so he plans out his day all beforehand um and he understands that there is some you know unforeseen situations where he needs to jump on calls and things that happen but generally um it works for him to kind of time block things in his diary that sort of thing it's essentially the mental effect of having to concentrate on that one task then you move to something else you move to another for him he removes uh distractions um such as having like a Chrome extension to block any of these kind of like procrastination websites and things like that keep your phone hidden and on silent yeah um he goes for walks so he goes to original walks without headphones there is a Japanese theory for probably says that you should concentrate and work hard for 25 minutes on a particular task all right support your thunder you just take a drink you just do that instead yeah the promo Focus stuff is what you're um talking about what's what promo Focus so what that is is a Pomodoro Pomodoro Technique right which is the 25 minutes exactly as you mentioned the 25 minutes thing of being able to focus on certain tasks in your list for 25 minutes and then you take a five minute break and then you kind of increase that kind of iteration of doing 25 minutes yeah um so Ryan left one of his techniques he uses um to concentrate on tasks he says he doesn't actually make to-do lists too much anymore but he uses that technique to get things done so that was really really interesting he also his phone lives in a drawer um yeah I don't think there was too much Chelsea mentioned the blocks timeout yeah I think is that generational thing with the phone because I mean you've seen my mine's on my desk right I'm just I'm showing you a picture it doesn't distract me it's been doing work um yeah yeah I I I don't see this thing on my phone that I wouldn't have on the web on the web on the desktop do you know what I mean it's like yeah I don't for me it's a social thing like you know social media and like I don't know that might be the thing then isn't it I mean refresh Twitter all the time and you know you know yeah I tend to stay away from it I think for me the one thing I do is um in the morning so I start about quarter past half and that window between then and nine o'clock is about me making to-do lists for what yeah but also I'm a freelancer right so not until nine o'clock not necessarily every day there's other stuff I might start but I I time box it and say nine o'clock when I start so everything before nine is about me right so it's either what I've got to achieve that day and I do um I update uh my socials so I'll put out I'll think about topics that we're going to discuss I'll update the website you know what I mean it's like today I was looking at Google analytics for our website and stuff like that don't do that I posted a short as well this morning all before nine I'm I'm good to go but I don't yeah it's weird I don't and maybe it helps having this this environment right so this is my office this is my this is this is my office and it's my place right so I don't tend no one really bugs me yeah no one everyone knows if that door's shut I'm working leave me alone so it's I don't know what about you did you get people both in the office you know what I mean yeah I'd say in terms of my like biggest distractions for me is uh I kind of need to sound proof this room so I have a one-year-old um a seven year old so the seven-year-old's obviously at school but the one-year-old you hear all the time you know describing and you know she doesn't wander in but I'm sure in the next year she probably would start to just wander in the office and say hi Daddy I'm hungry or something but um yeah about the halves obviously we'll we'll take care of that most of the time but it's just noise for me I prefer you know quiet um atmosphere I don't play music like when I work or anything like that or put headphones on or anything like that I prefer just you know silent and head down and just getting really no see I I have I have music on it just helps me crack up there's nothing better it's like today I looked in my diary and thought oh of a day with no meetings I'm going to put my music on and I can just crack on with stuff yeah yeah and I think for me for me managing my time what I tend to do is I'm very very big on lists um I do everything by list so in the morning it's been a tour to you I mean I'd write down everything that I plan to achieve for that day anything that's kind of burning or you know things I had to do immediately and think others like stretch go exactly what I do I use this app called which is great for making like tassis and I just literally ticked stuff off it's got an AI capability um but yes absolutely um what I do yeah and I wouldn't mind like trying to use some other techniques like going out for a walk and that sort of thing I've not tried it um I I've always kind of found myself and maybe this is the taboo thing that I've always think I'm too busy I'm too busy to go up and you know go out for a walk no man see yeah I was in the same pre-covered it was always a lunch I was always too busy and I don't after covid or the or when I started becoming a freelancer when I made that mental switch yes um because they were both at the same time I started Contracting and um they the great I mean the great unleashing of people can go with happened at the same time so I don't know which one it was but at that time I said that's literally my calendar you cannot walk between 12 and one yeah um and that's my time to walk the dog to have a Wonder uh out on the sofa outside [Laughter] me time yeah um yeah and I think that helps yeah so I think yeah another thing if you do if you're so set to like lists and things like that I think one argument against doing that is if you don't get through everything on your list then you kind of get that downbeat feelings oh you know I've not been able to get through all these things all you end up working later just so that you do get through all them things um which is probably not not great so maybe it's a mindset changes no but but it helps because if you're working with the project manager engagement manager that kind of understands the importance of um I guess one in one out right so stuff to do and you've only got certain amount of capacity to do it if you've got more stuff coming in and nothing going out you're never going to win right you're never the case of prioritizing and I'm covering my face there it's about prioritizing but but that's part of the PM and Em's job for us yeah you kind of say well this is what you've asked me to do you tell me which order I want to do it not exactly exactly yeah yeah it says no no you you've got done what you can during the day prioritization is probably the The Way Forward yeah here is a question to you then so so you feel fall over when you're running so you're quite old like [Laughter] that wasn't me we're both old I guess the point is we've both been around in the industry a bit uh I'm certainly just servicenow industry but yeah working industry of how every um experience so for new new people people just coming into the industry or people just starting work and whatever do you see any trends that that distract them from work and if you do what would you say to them so you're a mentor right someone said oh James I just I'm trying to do work but I keep getting distracted by Tick Tock all the time what kind of stuff are you saying how are you how are you weeding that out you know what I mean are people being on how does it work um honestly um so from those those that I Mentor so some of them are junior or you know grad sort of level as well um I don't I don't hear too much of that in terms of you know this is what's being um like distracting me sort of thing um I tell you what it is mostly it's balanced with um knowing what is important I guess on the day so it could well be that you know they're on a project which is full time and there's no time to do things like you know learning or training or fitting in um you know what's coming up in the next release and they'll end up just going through project time and not concentrating on other things that are just as important so it's a lot about just managing time if the probably the biggest challenge and knowing what to do with it you know if you're you know completely booked out to a customer and you feel that you have to do just that for all the time um you know maybe that's better people but but are people likely to be honest with you there right because time management has always been and it always will be the biggest factor in people not achieving what they're setting attitude yeah things that go well how come you didn't do that well I just need some management time better or yeah and so and the answer from a manager will be well you need better time management yeah and you're delving into that will new people go yeah well I didn't get it achieved because I sat on Tick Tock for three hours and then I decided to go and get my haircut for two they'll never say that never I don't think and I don't think that would be the case either because a lot of people I've been speaking to are just they're incredibly eager for their work and to learn and to you know pick up bits and pieces but um I think it's more about just understanding how to manage their day more efficiently um and what I do here is a lot of people will use their evenings and weekends to you know cramming and things like that and just yeah you know while you're young maybe that's fine and you're happy to do that and you know to progress your career and things like that which is great for eagerness and you know shows that you've got willingness so so here's another question right because I like this kind of topic right it's not necessarily technical it's it's subjective yeah and if we relate this back to a topic I've been really interested in recently which is about the next gen people coming out um you've been through the course right the service now I'm going to train you up course and send you out into the ether yeah you've been through that you've learned about the itsm work cool world the this is a flow this is a business rule which you're not supposed to do um you know this is an incident this is changing whatever you've learned about so it's kind of the you've got those servicenow skills but is I don't want to say time management but is working more productively at home and one you should look for when employing someone and two how do you train that because other than other than saying oh you're not being as productive as you can do you need to manage your time better how do you train it like service now you'd sit on you'd be a mentor and say this is an if statement this is a yeah so how do you and you think that's really hard isn't it because I don't think that even fits in with those kind of like core soft skills either um or the kind of you know generic company training that they get you to do for health and safety or it's kind of like one of the subjects this has not talked about um about how to how to work from home yeah you know it's almost just expected that you should just know or maybe just kind of Garner opinion from your colleague say oh what do you do or you know asking that question is it okay if I go for a haircut at lunch time it's game like that though isn't it because I've worked from home for many many many years and and obviously something I take for granted that I've just learned to do and it's just normal to me yeah but you think about these graduates coming through brand new probably never worked in an office before hmm it's always been virtual so it's kind of like it's not normal for them it's not natural um so maybe there is some kind of specific training that that needs to happen yeah a lot of it becomes to mentorship because you you touched on it earlier about a lot of things these things are kind of personal circumstance and things that maybe people don't want to discuss and that could be also the reason for for not too many responses on the LinkedIn other than me just being rubbish at social media but you know it's a personal thing it might show badly on you if you're opening up to these distractions and people feel that if they you know say that they have to do the school run uh that might be marked against them uh in any way shape or formed or you know yeah interesting one I'm just I'm just diving into LinkedIn now just have a check because yeah post it as well and then I'm constantly with 45 40 41 minutes in we spent 20 minutes just waffling um so we best wrap this up at some point but let me just check to see if if is LinkedIn gonna load so what we're referring to is James and I kind of um primed people with the topic we were discussing today and just trying to figure out what distractions people have at home um and when the excuse me would they be honest about it and my theory is I don't think people would be I'm not saying people will deceive but come on would you outwardly say you know I get distracted all the time yeah or I lack motivation to work I don't think people would it's more of a um I just I just think that's that's what people do and they do we just need to I don't know from a from a recruitment an employer point of view you need to learn how to spot it yeah and help people to get past and from an individual point of view you also need to learn how to spot it and it's okay to say I'm getting distracted I need some help to to manage it because the worst thing in the world is you're not delivering projects if you're not delivering your workload because you're getting constantly distracted or um you're not getting it done on time because at the end of the day we're there to do a job right yeah exactly yeah yeah there's got to be that kind of happy medium where you do work with your employer to understanding what is acceptable for your employer as well as you know what you need to do from home as well because they should also understand that if you are working from home there are some things that you can't avoid working from home is a benefit to the employee because they don't have to pay rent rates but it's also a benefit worse right it can't be both ways it can't be all the employer gets it we don't have to pay any rent but we expect you to work nine till five and be there all the time no it doesn't work like that you're allowed to be distracted but at least acknowledge what they are yeah yeah anyway that's that's for me so should we wrap this up then yes I think we should I think um so we'll come into this obviously talking about this whole subject of productivity and we've understood that yeah absolutely we're more productive working from home on the most part um there are going to be distractions and there are going to be things outside of your control with distractions and we believe that you know employees are aware of this I think they're becoming more flexible in terms of what you can and can't do from home um there's lots of techniques out there um like the Pomodoro Technique we've discussed around the 25 minutes rule being able to create lists being able to um you know block book your time and your Diaries I think the important kind of message is these sort of things you're gonna have to find out for yourself what works in terms of your productivity it can be very specific to your own individual circumstances whether you have family whether you have pets coming in and out all the time um yeah I guess that's my kind of summary of this is really you've got to try these different techniques and different things to try and work in your your life work sort of balance um yeah and you you missed that we've also learned that you're quite old and if you put you in front of 100 meter dash you're gonna fall over yeah and if you do want a free scooter uh Ruskin if it's addressing the link yeah there's someone out there you may not be tracking you it's got a black market ring on scooter mongering anyway so I guess that um that's uh thanks for wrapping us up there James um I think that just reminds us to say you can go first yep I've been James I've been Russ and this has been the service ducks