so change is not a one and done scenario you are in charge of your life you're in charge of your career you have the ability to make those changes but give things time things that initially might seem scary or might seem like this is not the right fit oftentimes they end up over time having a way of working themselves out so go into things open minded would be my be my response [Music] welcome back to Connected conversations season three we are in the throes of the Season talking about corporate real estate industry experts why and today I am very excited to have a friend on today's podcast he's somebody who I've known for quite some time we go back probably 10 years as competitors colleagues and now I'm lucky enough to partner with him and I really am happy to have the opportunity to speak with him today because there's a good inflection point in his career and where we are in our partnership together and I'm speaking about none other than Nick Holdsworth managing director America's Consulting CBRE hey buddy hey Bob how are you thanks for having me on today so Nick um what we like to do at the beginning of uh these podcasts is give the audience a little bit of your background so why don't you take us through how you ended up to where you are today oh it's a it's a long long story background box I took it a kind of an interesting route into the uh the workplace Arena you know finance and econ guy by by training and very very quickly I realized I wanted to be out I wanted to be in the action I wanted to be talking to folks and so pivoted to more of a sales uh role and got my start in the industry in the janitorial business so in Chicago selling janitorial services to Office Buildings to hospitals to any kind of as built space that company grew I ended up moving out west to expand and and open up some new markets in the western region and uh from there was hired by a company called brg brg hire V2 starts selling and talking about IW we're enemies we were Arch enemies we were Arch enemies yeah but to start selling this thing called iwms so my first day I said what does iwms stand for so I had to get the you know the workplace technology 101 training uh and you know from there grew into the industry met a lot of great friends from uh from brg and jll went to a prop tech company I caught the San Francisco kind of startup bug so uh so joined to prop tech for a while and really excited my firm building I was acquired by CBRE January of last year so uh welcome with open arms into the CB family and I'm now leading a uh a sales team focused on consulting services around the workplace locations strategy economic incentives leading the the sales team for occupancy management as well as the Legacy building on a group which is really focused around workplace Tech and your roles changed a little bit here recently right you've taken on a lot more responsibility yeah it has it has gone from uh you know someone out in the field and actually delivering these services and selling these Solutions and interfacing the clients and that's really my passion that's what I that's what I like doing and I'm still going to continue to do that but move more into a leadership role so helping the the broader organization think about growth uh think about what our clients are asking for Drive efficiency and consistency in that sales and delivery process so um yeah it has has changed a lot as of late we're on very parallel tracks I think um you know again when I think back to it I joke that once upon a time we were Arch enemies I mean we competed against one another constantly as two of the largest iwms implementers in the industry at the time you were brg I was CFI both companies were Acquired and bought and sold and um all those things which propelled us into different areas in our career but one of the things that I would I would like to know from you is I had a hard time um in the early days of elevating my career and the problem I ran into I same thing I delivered projects I wrote requirements that some people who believed me but it was so hard to break into sales they didn't want to let me on the sales team somebody was always throwing up roadblock and back then there wasn't a ton of opportunity for the younger generation it was a very guarded Department that he did not want to let the younger generation in did you have the same experience or how did you matriculate through your sales career yeah it's a it is a great question and workplaces we all know is a small industry I mean it's amazing how many people I see in a conference that I've seen at various events over the last 15 to 20 years and so there was a lot of um you know nervousness coming into a business that I didn't understand and selling into an audience that I didn't didn't know that well I think it's a couple things um one I had a fantastic manager I have to give a shout out to Alan Neal ala Neal was very very patient with me you know Alan uh was very patient with me was willing to sit down and invest the time that it took for me to really understand this industry understand the clients that we were servicing and was a really a mentor for those first three to four years still is today um so making sure that you've got the right manager in place to support your personal growth is is key I would say the second thing that I've always been very good at and never been afraid of well two things one is rejection um maybe that was from my janitorial day days of knocking on doors and and selling kind of those hard surfaces so it's okay if you tell me no it doesn't hurt my feelings um so that that helped me in this career um but the second piece was I was really good at asking questions I asked a lot of questions Bob I probably asked you a thousand questions early on when we got to know one another around um you know what clients were asking for changes in the industry what trends were we seeing um I would sit down with our various practice leaders every week and kind of pick their brains around how they were delivering projects and over time their knowledge kind of became my knowledge and so it really elevated my my growth me too me too and I didn't realize it until I got to a certain point my career I had the Imposter syndrome Nick I was always like I'm not I'm not a sales guy I'm not this I'm not and then somebody was like no you were definitely a sales guy um in a in a good way you know I think sometimes it's looked at as um you know looked down upon to call yourself a sales guy but to me somebody once said it's a privilege to be in sales and slowly as I gained all this knowledge and this is what I try to tell the younger generation is you gotta you gotta pick a lane and that's why I relate to you so well you we both stumbled into a lane and we stayed there for 15 20 years and it's just like this is just what I know so that when you're talking to your customers and Prospects you then become more of a consultant than you are a salesperson and really when you blend that and you know it's a consultative sales approach but again what you just said about their knowledge became my knowledge I can't I can't agree with you more because it's like holy cow I have all this knowledge I built up over the years and I really like sharing it I don't know about you but like even mentoring a younger generation um getting on on the phone with a cuss some of our joint customers that we've had we both know that they really need to be educated and that's some of the things that Kimberly Castle does with her team and then you know folks like us can come in in a real I guess meaningful way say no you want to do this first then this and let's we had a conversation about it yesterday about something that came up and you're like let's not distract them with that and I just think there's a lot of value in that I will tell you and I think you've experienced this for all the sales professionals listening and sorry you're seeing my hand move because I'm trying to get the light sensors to uh sales gets more fun the more that you know it really does so every year that I advance in this in this career it's it's it's more fun it's more engaging it's more meaningful because I'm able to have those discussions with clients and bring knowledge versus trying to promote a solution I'm focused on the client outcomes and their success not focused on my particular product or service and so you're able to to come in and act as a consultative sales professional that again drives meaningful conversations and and adds a lot of value and purpose to a sales career that uh that gets more fun as you age you know I I really do agree with that because I'm in a place where I do enjoy the day-to-day where when I was younger you just you know I I the Sunday scaries were everything every every day was a Sunday scariest it's like oh my God I'm gonna get yelled at and some of it were not so great managers if you will am I going to get yelled at today am I going to get fired today is is is am I going to lose this deal today and now now I don't look at it that way because I understand you know over the cross over the course of the sales process you're going to win and lose the deal five or six times right or if you do things the right way if one deal doesn't come through another one will and and you know it's it's a much it's a much different and you said it best I mean I really like what you said there is you move on and your career it gets a heck of a lot more fun and and for both of us we get a lot more responsibility and then we could take what we learned from maybe a good sales manager maybe a bad sales manager maybe a bad bad or good experience for the customer and then you know pass that along so that so that the the people who are working with us before us don't have those Sunday scaries you know what I'm saying like does that make sense it does and the stress the stress goes away um because at the end of the day you're not living and dying on a deal right you're living in dying based on delivering great client outcomes and so it becomes easier the older you get in your career or the more tenured you get to say no you know what the solution that I have is not the right fit for you Mr and Mrs customer and when you can have those honest conversations around you know I'm offering why but you really need X you've developed a relationship and you've built credibility that you don't know when that's going to come back to bear fruit so there's many opportunities that I've I've promoted a client move a different direction that has come back to bear fruit five or six years down the road so it's about being very honest with your clients and you're able to do that by having the knowledge but Nick I mean the and I wanna I wanna bolster that by saying when it comes to you it's very true I don't know anybody who has a bad word to say about you you know and it's like even even us coming from a place where we were competitors and now you know we became we were competitors then we were kind of colleagues when you're at salt mine and then now we're Partners you know we work together on opportunities so really you have done that and that that's I I want to give you a little bit of a pat on the back where you're a credible guy a lot of people like it you're very involved in the Coronet world and everybody knows you from that space and you've just done a really good job of making yourself a brand in the industry now I'm not talking about somebody's on LinkedIn trying to influence the world or anything like that people know you they trust you they value and I think you being at CBRE in your recent uh you know I'll call it a promotion or additional responsibilities I think it's very well deserved and over the last you know couple years that we got to work directly together I understand you a lot more and and I really see the value you've added to this industry well thank you thank you it um I don't know at what point in someone's career you go from just trying to figure it out to the light bulb clicks on and you're like you know what I I actually know a lot about this of stuff and there's value and there's coaching and there's leadership that I could provide and so it's uh it's been a fantastic Journey uh by no means done yet uh I think I've got a few more good years than me Bob before the before you hang me out to dry but uh long before you do you know that's that's funny like as you said that my my eyes kind of wandered because I was racking my brain and I think I can tell you when the light bulb went out for me um it was it was four or five years ago it was before I right before I came to navolo where I was like I don't I don't need to go through what I'm going through right now and then I moved on and I ended up at nuvolo where people needed that understanding they needed that guidance they needed that guy who had been there and done that in Mylene the corporate Real Estate Lane and the space planning place because we didn't have that at that time so that was that was geez what 15 years ago for me um so it or 15 20. boy we're pushing a lot of years so like let's say my light bulb was took me 15 years my light bulb took me 15 years so with all that said this is a great Segway so you've been at this a long time you started by you know selling Janet I do not envy you selling janitorial services I Once Upon a Time sold security not I was the account manager for security guards and my career started on the second day was 9 11. and it was a nightmare it was a nightmare dealing with you know folks not showing up to work folks showing up so I don't envy you and I started kind of in a similar way but when we look back on things and you talk about your janitorial services I talk about security guards why are you still here why are you still doing it like what was so sticky about it that you stayed all those years what's your why yeah it's a it's a it's a big question um and it's probably a variety of reasons right I mean for me Bob you've seen pictures and you've probably seen them on Zoom you know calls my kids I've got two young girls uh Eva and Isla four and and 17 months and so a big part of why what I do is because I've got a family to uh to look after and so that's a that's a major component um second component is is really the people uh I mean I have developed fantastic friendships that are much more than just colleagues they're much more than just clients these are folks that get Christmas cards from my my wife and I they we go out to drinks and dinner together we travel together so I've got some fantastic um friends I'm at the CBRE Salesforce tower on the 46th floor I like the I'm not just here for the view it's a great view but I'm here because I'm I enjoy the company and I enjoy the people that I work with and ultimately I like driving client outcomes you know I think as as you go through that you know there's there's a little bit of luck that comes with it right and that's that's what we're both Lucky in a lot of ways um because you know I wind up at nuvolo and this is me personally this isn't this isn't a product ad or anything like that this is basically personally saying okay there's some folks here that are gonna support me listen to me call me ask me my advice and respect me or maybe I didn't have that before and then for you when you moved over to building I I don't did you even think that CBRE was gonna you know swoop in and acquire and then you're gonna get to work on a great team like you are now I mean did you ever imagine that no no no no it was literally month three at building I that the the acquisition was announced and so it was a bit of a shock but change is a constant in our industry as we all know and um open embracing that change with open arms and being willing to step out and sell new services and put yourself out there and meet new people and and be part of new teams is critical I constantly advise young professionals find something new to do to create keep the creative juices flowing to keep you engaged and keep that growth continuing in your in your career um so the embracing change is a uh is a must you know it's so funny you say that because back in in the CFI days for me right the years just started to tick by and every year I was doing like you said something different something you know I found a way to make my way into the sales department from being a project manager consultant Nick at one point I sat on site at a large biotechnology company and managed their old facility Center application what as I started my my CFI career and it's like if I'm still doing that today um I wouldn't have followed your blueprint right that wouldn't have been and I was very much the same way but the point about what you said so the Years start to go by right and then it's like I'm comfortable there I know the people I work with I know and then change happened you know we were required by a different company so for 10 years there was all probably what I would say good change doing like you said the exciting stuff and then something you know I was having a lot of success at the not year nine year eight nine Nick I had a ton of success and it was like beyond my wildest dreams like some of the opportunities that I had to work with some of the largest companies in the world that that created this really great moment in my life and then change happened and I didn't know how to deal with it Nick I was because 10 years 10 years it was all the same it's what I knew and I just I didn't know how to deal with the change so my question to you is you know how do you do a change that maybe isn't so positive like how how did you how how would you recommend the Next Generation deal with something that that maybe isn't isn't the most exciting thing in the world it's a lot in your mindset um so whatever change if you're not seeking change but change comes to you and at that point you don't think it's positive try to take a step out take a step back from the day to day and look at it it's yourself three to five years down the road what does this change going to help me achieve what additional skill sets am I going to pick up because of this change what new colleagues and friends and co-workers am I going to have because of what change is happening and I think you'll not all change may stick right you may have a change that six months down the road it turns out it wasn't the right fit for you you then have the ability to go out and make another change so change is not a one and done scenario you are in charge of your life you're in charge of your career you have the ability to make those changes but give things time things that initially might seem scary or might seem like this is not the right fit oftentimes they end up over time having a way of working themselves out so go into things open minded would be my be my response recently I somebody said something and I anytime I see like uh somebody posting like a motivational thing on social media I check out immediately or somebody one of these motivation somebody said something that and it stuck with me what's the best thing that could happen you know the saying what's the worst that could happen it's like what's the best and you just describe that so eloquently it's like what is the best thing they could possible there's some change here and something just happened but what's the best thing that could happen as opposed to what's the worst thing that can happen and really Nick do you Mentor do you Mentor anybody currently do you do you have anybody that you work with on a wonderful I I I I uh I've got a lot of people that I connect with that uh may or may not think of me and that kind of that uh that context I don't know if there's an official Mentor uh mentee kind of title associated with it but uh I would hope through some of the conversations and folks that I continue to say in touch with not only on my existing team but in in past roles um there's there's that Dynamic there for sure the reason why I ask is like we talk we talk differently right me and you we talk we're trying to figure something out or we're trying to help one another out and we talk as peers right and we learn I learned from you you yesterday we we talked through something and I was like oh that's a good point I didn't think of that um but the point I guess I'm trying to drive at I think you have a lot to offer and I know you have a lot of responsibility and you have a very big uh roll their CBRE that's that's you have a lot of responsibility and accountability but I guess what I'm saying to you is I I really really compel you based off some of my some of the things I've seen um working for software companies working in the industry um people like you Nick are very important to the future of corporate real estate and I think you have a lot to share and it's part of the reason why I wanted to have you on the podcast is because you don't act you're not a self-promoter you're just not you're not but then you start talking and it's like wow um you know Nick has a lot to say and I want to give you a platform to you know kind of talk about yourself and kind of what you're doing at CBRE and I just compel you to stay out there and look for opportunities and help guide the next so there's another Bob and Nick coming in the future to fill our shoes right I've really I really compel you to do that so with that said this comes to my next segue which is something I I would like to kind of touch upon here as as we move towards uh wrapping up this this episode is what's the future of our space um broad Strokes um what are some of the things that you see are coming down the pike like having been there done that you know the the janitorial the iwms the the point solution you know now leading uh sales initiatives for the largest real estate company what's what's coming what are you seeing oh if I had that magic eight ball Bob uh we're just gonna be out of this industry much sooner than I'm not saying I'm not asking you to predict the future what are you saying wait so yeah we're still seeing a lot of our a lot of our clients trying to determine what their what their portfolio needs to look like in light of changing uh changing work habits changing work preferences Etc and so I think obviously we're seeing portfolio consolidation um pretty much across the board there's certain sectors and industries that are that are still continuing to grow their footprint but most are looking at the cost of unoccupied space and how they could potentially uh optimize their portfolio so portfolio optimization is is critical in almost every single engagement that we're um you know we're pursuing right now the second component is a is a more intuitive and user-friendly not interface but the entire workplace experience need to be needs to be more intuitive more user friendly and there needs to be more choice to it I don't think this is a New Concept people have been talking about this for three to five years but people want the option to come in and sit down and touch down at a desk maybe go have a conference in a small conference room then they want to go to their local coffee shop still have the same technology and connection and then maybe they want to go home and spend the afternoon with their kids because there's a dance recital and they want to get back online at eight o'clock and finish up their day so it's not only choice in terms of where you work but it's choice and how you work so what we're seeing is a lot more coming together and since you and I's first session at cornet 15 20 years ago we talked about the intersection of I.T human resources and corporate real estate those three pillars coming together is not a New Concept but I think the pandemic and what's happening is late has really expedited that and so you're seeing the workplace being more reflection on the people and less on the performance of the built environment yes those two go hand in hand performance cost reduction inner Energy savings Etc are all critical but it's the intersection of how that uh mixes with The Human Experience and the choice that those humans have in terms of when they engage and how they come to the office and where and how they work that has led that it HR Real Estate connection to bleed together more than it ever has and I think we'll continue to see that in the future I think we we talked about it that's where iwms came from right we talked about it back in our our brg and CFI days we talked about it but there was no compelling event like we like to talk about in sales what's what's the compelling event and it slowly started it slowly started to trickle uh the you know the aipac region was much better about adopting these new workplace models before the pandemic like they were doing it they were doing they were neighborhooding and free addressing and and utilization versus Alec they were doing it years ago but then the pandemic came and It sped things up to where uh companies in you know the United States and all across the world had to kind of react to this and it really created that compelling event and that momentum for this to really happen where where you know space had to become you know more of a reflection of the people like I think that's great what she said so with all that said and I couldn't agree with you more how can you and your team help uh folks out in the industry today like what could we turn to to the CBRE team to help them with that specifically with what you're responsible for yeah it's a great question Bob and there's a lot that we're responsible for um whether it's looking at economic incentive packages around location strategy um you know as a new Distribution Center going to be in Stockton California or Fresno California where's the where's the labor and the talent in those regions what's the cost to to build out or to uh to connect space um so that's one area around the consultative location and portfolio strategy the second area that we do a really good job at that's not looking at a particular product Bob but it's looking at a company's technology stack you've worked with Kim castle for a long time I've known her for many many years I think that's one of the most valuable products that we have is the ability to come in take a look at what technologies a company is using today across real estate facilities workplace reservations Cafe card management Fleet Management and help them determine what the future State roadmap looks like based on their organizational goals and objectives and not just their organizational goals and objectives from a real estate perspective but from a business perspective a human resources perspective and an I.T perspective and help them determine the right collection or Suite of products to support that growth and build out a very detailed actionable roadmap to help them get there and so that's a service that I think every CBRE customer needs and almost every client that I engage with is there are seven thousand pieces of property technology out there navolo being a fantastic one little plug we support you guys wholeheartedly and you're doing some amazing things but helping our clients to determine what the right Suite of Technology products is and help them determine a roadmap to achieve their goals and objectives that's that's I mean that's everything right it's that approach to say we understand your requirements and here are three three to five solutions that may meet your requirements and will help you narrow it down and decide which one what about anything pertaining to the new es and G ESG regulations is that part of your responsibility as well with the team you manage yeah it's a good question it is not there's a separate es and G group within CBRE that focuses wholeheartedly on those uh those Suite of services and products and so we'll work in tandem or or partner with them on Pursuits and opportunities and and be able to leverage their expertise but it is not a suite of products at my team particularly supports the outsourced space planning and things like that as a is that part of your world absolutely absolutely so we've got kind of a two-pronged approach to occupancy planning it's we've got a variable model so we've got clients who don't necessarily need a fully dedicated planner they may be a smaller mid-cap company with a a portfolio size under a million square feet so we've got a variable team that can come in and provide a percent of a resource or come in and help do a utilization study help do a restack um do a more Project based kind of of Engagement model we also have a dedicated team so for many large occupiers um they look at CBB areas and extension of their their real estate team so we've got embedded space planners occupancy planners planners change managers workplace strategists portfolio strategists that drive integrated services and outcomes for our clients around all things portfolio space and occupancy that's terrific so Nick here um I always I always take it from a stance of gratitude um I just want to thank you for being one of the real ones in the industry um I we both can share some wild stories uh that have happened to us and people we know but you're one of the real ones Nick you have a lot of lot to offer this industry you have a lot to offer CBRE and I'm happy that you're there and I'm grateful that I get a chance to work with you every day and it's really really refreshing to hear somebody talk the way that you do uh about sales and about the iwms space and about the corporate real estate space where I really really value what you have to offer and I really trust when when we have a conversation and we arrive at a direction to go uh jointly and I I just really appreciate having you as a peer in this industry Bob always a pleasure thank you brother um if I don't get my daily call from Bob masichetti it just doesn't feel like uh it's been a complete day so thank you it's an exciting space to be in I mean what as a as a father of two young daughters having the ability to craft the future of how they're going to work and how they interface with the built environment and it's it's amazing it's exciting we work with great people so thank you for having me I appreciate it and uh I'm excited to see the podcast go live yeah so with that said I'm Bob masuchetti from novolo that's Nicole's worth from CBA this is connected conversations thank you for joining us we'll see you on the interwebs [Music]