[Music] hello and welcome to the service Ducks podcast I home co-host James downs and I'm Rush here and we're here to chat about all things servicenow everyday life as a servicenow consultant new features implementation successes and perhaps more entertaining when it doesn't go quite so well [Music] [Applause] [Music] and welcome back to another episode in fact it's episode 10 of the service docs podcast today we're going to be talking about how how to get help or how to ask for help right so um in our roles we get asked for help by um you know people that just perhaps gone through the administrative course or perhaps Junior devs Arena senior devs that might ask people for help it's it's a universal thing not just service now specific but how would you articulate what you need from someone and do it in such a manner that you're going to get a response back that's going to be helpful to you that is what we're going to talk about we're going to cover all that however we've got a few things to discuss because the man is back in town I've decided to turn up for this one James is back so we missed you last time huh no I know I feel absolutely awful but do you know what Harry was absolutely brilliant in my absence um I thought it was a really good uh episode and good to see how the video works as well for the service Ducks um as viewers and listeners enjoy that yeah yeah and well and and sorry I'm gonna drink the tea this is my first video one little time was spent on here um but yes first video one uh yeah let's see how it goes I guess yeah okay so I've just realized that as I'm drinking tea because normally we don't do this on video right so no one can sing oh well I know usually your face absolutely puts me off to turn off welcome so I don't end up in a fit of laughter so what you've been up to though what was um what was the deal yeah so obviously last last few weeks have been absolutely Manic and I know you uh called it out actually in the last video which was which is great um because it's a real thing obviously being in projects and you know everyone's busy and there's deadlines and you know very tough customers to work for sometimes and um yeah it was just all became you know bad timing for being able to record something but yeah incredibly busy on a uh seem to be maturity project um which is right nice an interesting journey to say the least knives and I don't think I don't think people realize that it doing these things together is a challenge because you have to find the availability at the right times right and and it is you know we don't just we don't wish we specifically don't just organized the time we turn up every every time they just doesn't work like that does it the nature of the Beast is some things will happen after reschedule so he's a bit of a shaman but we're here we're here for the for the people um Nova blasts they're bus threes I have I have a recommendation from yourself no less so um yeah to be honest I'm really really enjoying it obviously for those who don't know there could be people who don't know running will be like okay what the hell's Nova blast you've been recommending some interesting toys or so yeah Nova blast free fantastic pair of running shoes um I've been really building up my running um over the last few weeks as well yeah um building up to a half marathon in May so by putting in the miles um did it almost got my 5K PB this week which was amazing and I put that down to the shoes because I was only one minute off and you know what I think when I did my PB I was at least 25 pounds lighter yeah what what's your what's your bb uh 26.47 that's there that's incredibly nice service yeah 27 of the heart with the wind behind you yeah but that's like so so what did you do the other day 27.5 27 yeah 27 and a half yeah yeah I was really happy with that yeah absolutely what you've been up to but y'all talking about you come up a bit more hang on be your father I'm interested in the service you'll you'll find the more mileage you do if you increase your mileage and you go back and then do that again you'll find it even quicker but yeah yeah absolutely yeah yeah it's better to build up that kind of Core Fitness yeah for sure helping denied I've gotta because I'm the same as you we're both doing um showing for a hot marathon on me um not doing the same one this time have a little tease using the Vapor Flies I think might increase the speed yeah I literally you did a 15K the other day so you're building up the old little distance you know what I've done a couple of those now um I did one with my neighbor opposite um who to be fair he hasn't run above 13k before so we just gotta run water because I didn't want to destroy him you know what it's like when you're going past 14k your knees start going I see it so I was like right well run more we'll just get the mileage done um but yeah it's good good fun so what have I been doing I hear you out right no no I made a note I broke some notes oh oh in these last few weeks you're starting to prepare enough of those to talk about in fact we're gonna struggle to actually talk about the topic today it's just gonna be me ramble usual yeah yeah standard um normal service yeah service now meet up in the right place hope everyone could hear this if not all we'll try our best to edit but I mean some right difficulties if you haven't um service now meet up I went to that last week um I know we talked about it on our last um podcast together a few weeks back number episode eight go and check it out and this is a lot of good stuff yeah I went to the Meetup I was working in London for the day uh I got my course I got a scooter from water those gotta be done fantastic but do you know what one thing I did think actually um and I wanted to bring this up because I wanted to ask you this because you all get this is on the way in and this isn't servicenow or meter related by the way on the way into London this is the dynamite face on the train every time every time I catch a train do you and it's quite busy let's not say it's Ram so you've got to stand up so you've got you've got it's that kind of Middle Ground busyness where you can stand and you won't people won't think you're weird or you can sit down because there's ample seating however you won't get on your own see you already have the choice do you take Destiny into your own hands right and you select where you sit so you've got to sit next to someone yeah do you sit down and let someone sit next to you because when home Spike should not tell ever and every time I sit down and I allow Destiny I allow people to to make my faithful I always get are you gonna alienate some people here of different shapes and sizes or I either get the wine I was bid on it since six o'clock in the morning right well yeah my the businessman that sits down you know what I mean I like this that's it comes to McDonald's as well you won't know that hope isn't it it's that little bit of hope when you get on one of these trades I will go into work into London or coming back out that you're like right please try and leave before anyone sits next to me please please and then the inevitable happens the waft of people comes down there then the trade you're thinking please don't let it be give you please don't let it be you know that's an idiot yeah are you a choose or a newer there's a double C I'm going for it but I completely get the perspective that if you have a choice as well if you can choose who you can sit next to it and if there's good candidates I'm sitting next to that you know it's going to be a comfortable Journey yeah that's the thing you've got to hired that could be the better option yeah that's that's another fact you're going to walk in and quickly assess the can because you can't you do you have a you have a quick scan that's it and you're deciding these things very quickly and then you make your choice and then you you regret it if you're dare him you're down you can't think it up again you would look a bit odd if you walked up and down the carriage trying to assess people you know are you worthy of my time no but if you get any food out [Laughter] [Laughter] the meet-up yeah it was good um there was um people food from obviously various different partners and and customers there it was good too for me these things and I think I said last time are all about making those connections having a chat talking hey what you've been up to what you're working on oh I'm doing that and there was some really good conversations I met some some uh great people I've never met before uh I even met one guy that worked on a project and never met face to face and I had to remind him before I think he got bored and went yeah yeah I know yeah you go for that don't you so yeah yeah I remember you so it was a well attended I think yeah there was only like um a 20 limit 20 limit I said also I figured out oh okay so it was a limited thing yeah it was limited but I think one they could have got more people in the office it was in the service now offices in London which is a lovely office that's a big Point yeah I think they could have got people more more people in the room um but if not I think maybe if there were there was there was obviously enough call for it because there's like people on a wait list there's like this so I think if they couldn't have got 20 people on the road then maybe perhaps start looking at other options because it's all about being inclusive isn't it it's all about getting people involved about you don't want to be told oh your name's on my list you're not you're not on the list you're not coming in you know I mean we're not we're not back in the 90s trying again yeah but the only thing well actually I was thinking about when he went in they did take your name like the the reception people took your name uh check your on the left so I was just wondering what happens if you turn up you're not on the list yeah surely surely they can make up a temporary badge did you get a badge I got a badge that I had to have had him back um so not quite a serious no match nothing I can stick on the wall of fame uh Beyond yeah one of the highlights for me I've heard the big question is what I say did servicenow put up any goodies that's what I want to know if you're in their offices what did they did they were they involved at all yesterday did they you know get involved with the structure or was there any swag in me yeah we all got a MacBook to say go we got it if you don't go you miss it now um it's under swag to be fair they do um I'll put on a good show in terms of beer all right and so there was in up beer there was Guinness there was wine there was pizzas floating about other kind of healthy based things that I don't even know some kind of salad there's some description who cares when you see Pizza whatever um but there was a good show so yes it was well okay um so if you're going for perhaps if you you just know what the if you've ever just heard the name service now and get yourself on the the Meetup list go because then you get some free food and drink there you go yep we like the leader I like me was and they do a quiz and one of the answers was um who is responsible for 50 of the demo data in servicenow instances and has it their own Twitter account now of course the answer is able tutor some absolute genius thought the answer was I don't know why this made me laugh so much um able to that [Laughter] brilliant so that was um that was uh yeah that was the Meetup Borman uh B Saga the other one thing I do want to mention because I keep driving at home The Saga for me getting a PDI continues oh no still yeah I have still yet in fact you know what I haven't upgraded my um my my Tokyo ones yet so I've still got them just they're sitting ready to be upgraded for a Utah series we don't know what happened I can go and just let one slip but I have even I requested it sign awake this I I even did some YouTube shorts on this um because it just amused me to be honest with you nothing nothing else oh I went back in I thought oh I know because I someone else said to me oh I have enough to wait at all you have to excuse me while I log in I can't think yeah um and I went in and I I thought well they've got theirs I'm going to come out the way list and I'm going to try and get it again and yeah I went back on the white list so I've probably gone back but yeah [Laughter] absolutely genius you just got your account blacklisted right I don't think they've got to be blacklisted as a pest I think they're just cheating you as a pests would you know what I do need an instant because it means I can't do any um any YouTube content without it are you you have to put up with me just talking you have to stop nicking mine yeah sign on talk about something interesting for a minute on logging in that's where the request an instance career saved look I'm gonna share I'm gonna share my screen oh this is live people which screen I must admit I had one instance which was sleeping and it seemed to be sleeping forever I've been trying to wake it up and wake it up wake it up it took 20 days for me to wait the bloody thing up here we go look I am still wait wait listed for an instance I'm still there that has been now I'm not joking got to be 14 days got to be um let me roll the dice should we should we do it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it that's me and we'll either wait there you may as well just for giggles this is gonna read my pie on the face because we're going to start building again I'm excited for this now right oh now I I so presumably you got that far before I've not this far but look it says no instances available for everything right I laugh so every time I've tried Utah now what shall I do come on Sunday hey yeah that's kind of yesterday's news yeah I mean if it says no instances available across the board then you have to be a waitlist for Sunday anyway I don't know I don't know what I was expecting to happen then although it'll be more dramatic than it actually was I thought I'd go way you can have it now but no all right here we go no no no no you're back to the back of the list why did you do that and that is ridiculous though isn't it yeah it's made um no difference at all um maybe you still sign up with a completely different account I mean who do you actually go to for these things you know if some if if you can't get an instance that is um you know not waking up or if there's a problem with your PDI that you want to recover um is there a team that you can go to for that sort of thing you know what it's a good point is there a team that you can go to and when you get there how do you like to put help should we talk about that subject how do you pester them yeah well after hang on I was trying to segue into the theme of the podcast here and you missed you yeah oh God I missed the hook you missed the hook so 100 other things I can talk about right but let's get on to this and if um I'll have my emails up on the other screen and if I get an email from service now that says you're worthy enough to have one of our special pdis I'm going to interrupt lucky enough we're a live broadcast that's it this occurred to me the other day right so in my role so I act as a kind of well architect lead senior in different capacities and I don't think it matters walk capacity no the point is when you're asking for help how would you ask in such a way that you're going to get a positive response back or a response back to me because one of the the traits I see is people are quick to so almost kind of panic and just kind of um shotgun you and what I mean by that is just give you a load of information all at the same time I've tried this and it's not working I backed it down and it did that I need to difficult yeah and I'm the kind of information overload to digest and think and and kind of go through devotion so what are your thoughts or your opinions talk let's go what do we think yeah so what what I think is is that um obviously you need to think about why you're asking for help in the first place I guess is my first point in terms of maybe you've got to that point where that breaking point where you've you mentioned the word panic yeah exactly that Panic point where like you know you spent so many hours maybe trying to fix a script and we've all been there we've all been there and to deep into a script you just just can't get it working for love no money and you've reached a point like I need a second night set of eyes on this to yeah um to just help me out yeah sort of thing um so yes it's about understanding at what point that is because it's all about when when should you actually ask for help yeah I guess what I wanted to just go into a little bit is um when is it acceptable to ask for help because there's this almost this notion or um this this Unwritten rule or something about technical consultants or developers that it's a weakness if you ask for help um you know if you're in this kind of bubble of you know it's your job to go and develop something it's almost on you to try and figure it out yourself and I don't know where that has kind of come from because you just don't think about the bigger picture so I wanted to get your feedback on that in terms of understanding the bigger picture of maybe you're as part of a project or delivery and you're stuck in a problem oh you're not allowed to buy it back to me that's not that's not the game um that's not the way things usually go but no no no switching it up that's a good question right so I think now more than ever we've talked about it before community and collaboration and how important it is to get involved in the community in some capacity and collaborate with your pet and I think years ago you you're right I think years ago maybe it was oh he needs help right it's kind of an old-fashioned way of looking at I think he's is yeah and and I'm I'm one of those people right I I specifically thought oh God I don't want to feel my face but help I I don't want to feel like I'm failing therefore I'll stay awake till three of them up in the morning oh and in some instances I think that's that's okay that's a writer package that's what some people do right but no absolutely let's just dispel that myth right now it is a hundred percent acceptable to ask for help right I will absolutely and things that I don't know I will myself project management stuff well that's the help because it's not mine skill set it's not something that come left with me so that's absolutely okay um I think the the difference is for me is if I'm going to ask for help I think I need to show that I've I've at least looked into emptied myself did you know what I mean or or I don't know where to look therefore I'm asking help can you give me some pointers I might come back you liked so I think 100 is fine to ask for help but you need to take Destiny into your own hands and then take yourself some of the distance yeah I mean is that almost dependent on the role that you are performing so it could be that you are a junior technical consultant you've been given a a particular job and um maybe there is again tight deadlines I mean I don't know why you'd give a task to a junior Dev if there's really tight deadlines I think that's another thing but um you know if they've given it a go maybe they haven't gone back and read dock sites or Community Forum to try and figure out the problem themselves they don't have that kind of troubleshooting skills yet yeah is it at that point acceptable to just put your hand up and say I think so look hey I'm struggling with this can someone just give us a hand yeah I I think so I would rather again you've LED teams right um I would rather know someone struggling will need help as soon as possible unconscious I might be slightly contradicting myself but I'm not I I'd like someone to make the attempt to tell themselves and then say hey hang on but think about how the team operates so don't wait until the end of a Sprint yes to go oh hang on this last day has been oh I've only just realized I've got to do this story because I've only just noticed I've only just paid attention now I'm gonna need some help perhaps think about um so it depends on that bigger picture is what we're saying here yeah I think so I think but when but when that time comes I'll let him try something difficult I'm gonna put you on the spot when that time comes yep it's about how you ask for help what so yeah absolutely yeah mine Johnny gifter and I know from my perspective how I try and do it it's like when whenever I raise the case on on service now uh quite important it's not high portal that we all call I portal that thing um yeah probably find talking to all those chat bots on like Skye or something areas still on there I'll just try and blow them up how how are they to approach you how are they to to ask what what information do you need yeah well I've got some I've got a couple of virtually examples from um fairly recently where this has happened actually in one of my previous projects last year on the phone you've done research haven't you I've prepped get prepped well it's not even research just my own personal stuff that happened last year so this was just writing it down though because I had them ready we good examples to use last week because there was no one to do any prep it was just me Harry Winged It that's it yeah so I was uh I Was An Architect on a particular project and one of the team members one of the technical consultants um was in that same situation where there were they were stuck and um they've spent a lot of time in the Sprint trying to figure out this same uh problem and what they ended up doing was they emailed me um a whole War and Peace novel on what the actual issue was started with this is the story that I'm working on uh here's a few screenshots here's the process flow here's a like 10 paragraphs describing the actual issue whereas of course what they could have done is just pinged me on teams and say hey are you free have you got a couple of minutes to just chat for a problem um and another example is so the other example is actually the polar opposite of that which is more from an exec level them asking you for help hey can your heart after um go on a call with this particular customer this is escalating there's a technical problem um you know not telling you any information about what the issue is or any background or anything like that you just have to go on that call and then you don't know their names there is an expectation that you're an expert of whatever their problem is um and then you're you're kind of fighting fires at that point trying to build up the relation with the customer and trying to understand what their issue is what it's about and in that example I didn't know you know I wasn't an expert in that particular area so I had to take it away with me and again that's a poor experience for the customer because they're expecting you to be the person who is um an expert in that area but because the person didn't ask well the exec didn't ask what the issue is about then they couldn't go to the right person with the right kind of knowledge yeah yeah yeah so yes I'm very much in line with you in terms of um if someone's asking you for assistance um you don't want to read War and Peace you equally don't want to receive absolutely nothing so if you just have at least just you know the cold hard facts about what the actual issue is I guess a bit like a test case or the acceptance criteria of the story saying I'm trying to do this and this happens do you have a couple minutes that we can just chat through this please yeah okay sometimes a screen share is all you need yeah that's interesting so I guess it's uh what we're saying they're halfway between nothing at all and War and base um I get the War and Peace and I think people are doing it because they think I want to give them all the information so they're not going to ask any more questions yeah I want to show and do what I've just said right show that they've done all the information up front and they're not just basically your time yeah [ __ ] this is probably a failure on my ball if I see War and Peace email I'll read two sentences and go okay let's have a call um because I just it's just a lot easier so from my point of view uh but the other thing is you don't just want one sentence because you you want to go and prepare you don't want to turn up to a call someone say can I have some help on business continuity management you go and you go oh I can go up come back to you because we don't use it no we'll never use it I'll have to figure out what it is yeah I think there's a halfway and um I've just realized that my mic this mic isn't working I don't know why I'm talking into it's something else um so we'll sit a bit it's a prop hey price you pay but I like doing podcasty stuff but I'm I'm a hard way Paris kind of person if someone's coming to me for help I'm like you don't need more in peace however what I think is good to is I like to know very short and sweet what is it we're expecting to happen what it isn't doing and what it should be due right and then only when we know that caption that has to be in my eyes something really brief and then anywhere we've got that is what step we take to replicate the issue and what have they done to try and fix it so far and I can I can relate that if I'm walking in the community and again I think uh there are some Community posts on this but how to ask the help on service their Community but that translates to things like stack Overflow as well right how do you ask for help yeah yeah make sure it's clear make sure your short description is clear you know what are you actually asking it's the 16 and the prob almost the problem description problem statement is clear yes yes um problem statement of goals outcomes what are you trying to achieve yeah and I think yeah I think it doesn't need to be formal to do that but I think so many people just go into it I've tried this I've tried this I've tried there's nothing topic yeah okay what are you expecting zap what do we wanted to do what's it doing how do we replicate the issue and then what steps are we taking to try and fix it and I can get it for me yeah um but what I was going to do I I did say this earlier before I got distracted with my potential like issues oh hang on hang on hang on oh he's still on the way was it an email no we're still avoided um but let's do some role play here we go let's try this right so if I I'll ring it you can be you I'm going to be someone else where we meet but I'll be someone asking for help so we'll see how it goes right bring bring no I'm not gonna call you but do we call it or the piggy on things hey dude can I call you dude is that all right should we go with some Elves dude I'm busy all right [Laughter] oh actually my default thing is probably just to leave it in teams for several hours I've seen it's popped up as a bold but then I'll come back to you later no no oh this is how it goes right hey make you free now I'm busy there you go several hours then I come back don't worry sorted myself exactly yeah no okay I'm busy you got two sex yeah sure okay let's jump on whoa jump on a call Rick I'll do that we're on a call right I've got this email it's just not send it in and left click Send and I've been in the out box and I've been in the Inbox and I ran around the street for a bit and I had a cup of tea then I came back and found my dog was messing all over the carpet and I didn't know what to do help oh right stop you there let me stop you there yeah I don't care about your dog trying to achieve you're trying to send an email yeah what happens when you try and click on send well let's go through the basic steps and I think this is a very good point actually because I think and a lot of our ethos are behind service Ducks is let's just go back to basics let's take a step back yeah and actually what you're really after is for a fresh pair of eyes to see the obvious that you've missed yeah so when you start talking it back to someone and talk to your duck that's what we keep saying talk to your dog explain all the kind of basic facts to your duck and it will help you finding the answer yeah I don't think it's the same situation here isn't it I think you're right because uh when I click saying oh there's no send button but there's no send button I was just tuggling it just send miraculously ah you find me a Jew thanks Jack there we go yes yeah more than welcome yeah that's why you're that's why you wanna be but more than enough and it is something stupid isn't it yeah I think I think that the broad play didn't quite work but but it did Illustrated point right it did a little straight Point let me stop you there let's go through the basics um yeah link exactly so I think we are we're always there tell him right so we we need to start wrapping this up so I'm gonna try and do a bit of a wrap up I'm just going to do a wall quick last check on my PDI still talking into my mind which I know um but yeah so just a low PDI but I think what we've learned today we've learned that um if you're catching a tray maybe think about who you're going to sit next to play the destiny into your own house whether they eat pizzas and beers and wines at meetups we know that you've got some Nova busts and you always did a PB but more we've learned there's also at um my PDI is still not there in terms of how to get help we we've learned and this is the key key message it is absolutely fine I'm accepted and more than um more than accepted for people to ask for help uh and and ask um as soon as they they possibly know they need it right or so when you're doing it yes exit synced keep it to the point um and try and display that you've done some research or you've tried to help yourself to find the answer before Bank help um but it's absolutely acceptable and please if we can finish on this note no War and Peace okay and if you've just listened to the last sentence of the podcast because he's meaning about explaining that's it there's our title we've not gone back to the 60s so on left notes um Jane has been an absolute pleasure to have you back and I hope you've enjoyed the video um good to be back and I haven't distracted you too much with my team drinking my weird cups but until next time I think it just reminds us to say I've been Russ I've been James a mess is service duck that's all for today's podcast thank you for listening and if you want to get your question answered by the service Ducks get in touch through talk to the doc at service hyphandux.com or just use one of the links below thank you foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music]