hi this is Mark bodman I'm the senior product manager for csdm and seem to be here at servicenow and I'm joined with Jerome Orbach and uh Jerome can you please introduce yourself yes Sue I'm Mark hi everyone my name is doron Orbach and I'm product manager for the application portfolio management product which we're going to discuss today I think yes yeah well thanks for joining me and um you know I know we've worked together in the past life we have an interesting swap of roles used to be the product manager of the cmdb at HP where I was sort of on the Enterprise architecture side so it's kind of interesting background that we have yeah indeed indeed and it shows again the world is small you meet people on the same way you know in the same places eventually yeah so yeah yes so it's it's exciting to kind of talk about this topic here and um you know you could just jump into your product area and how it supports csdm but I think they're you're showing something here that's quite interesting and dear to my part and this is the new Enterprise architecture workspace um so you want to introduce that real quick for the users and and we can kind of talk a little about that product yes absolutely so APM indeed is application portfolio management and usually it helps customers to organize all the business application to understand the how to optimize them how to rationalize their portfolio and even just understand basic data or the owners and so on and what we're doing and actually we release it Marketing in not so long ago so it's just uh not even one month old so this is the new Enterprise architectural workspace so it's taking off where APM started and is delivering more value on top of the application portfolio management mainly to Enterprise Architects though we we don't see it as limited only to Enterprise Architects likely also solution Architects and even application owners can benefits from this platform or from this UI I just share in few sentences I won't go into all the features that we have here but in few sentences that show what we see so so basically when we go into this screen we have several sections now we are on the home page and the first thing that we are trying to provide those are the insights about things that we think should be top of mind for the architect so if they've opened things that are carrying on too much like certifications for data that they need to see or or they have broken things like business applications that are not related to business capabilities they can immediately step and see them and one of the nice things about this workspace is that all the information is seen directly inside this workspace so they will see immediately what is not related and they can capture also of course what is the application and who is this task assigned to so they can contact them and again it's all coming up in tab so it's very easy to track it they can also follow up for requests that are coming to the table Anthrax certifications or assessments of data so really helping them to keep the data on their portfolio and will soon see their portfolio is more than just business application we really have a broad portfolio that we cover and the last section here is the portfolio overview and health which basically gives them the notion of things that they own and also how they can improve the data that they have so they own business capabilities and information objects and business applications and there are all entities related to the I would say top level or design in in the world of csdm that you manage and any on the bottom they will see where they can improve the data the data that they're actually managing how they can improve it and get to understand for example if they have applications that do not have related application services so they will get to see immediately which applications they are and they are able to also act on this business applications so they can improve the data for APM and eventually for the cndb we're also trying to give some more notion of seeing the data in a way that is a dashboard like so they will be able customers will be able to see more graphical slicing dice of their data the business application by install type by technology stack and so on and if they want to dive into this data so for example I see all the business application on Unix platform I can dive in and see which business applications are actually running on this platform and I can take actions as they see fit on this business applications got it got it so it's more like an Insight platform there's some things you can do Based on data quality or maybe um potentially being part of a an ARB process or something like that or project steps where you have to approve an architecture diagram or is that a good way to kind of summarize this is It's just bubbling all the those metrics up in in quality issues to folks can in the EU team can take care of it yeah indeed so I I agree first it's a consolidation of all the data that they want to see yeah and then it also let them take action or trying to put their attention into the things that they need to take care of without the need to run around an important aspect Mark maybe to to mention on top of this is and we did in the last month few researchers and interviews with many Enterprise Architects one of the things that we see with Enterprise architect that the different types of I would say uh work that they are doing so yeah the price architecture are individuals are doing different things in different companies and because of this what we are doing here is we really allow everything that you see on the screen can be configured so customers can decide to see different insights to add more insights to change the order of the inside or to create different uh scorecards and change the logic behind this scorecard so it's really a configurable workspace where you don't necessarily need to see the same thing as your colleague on a different company will see it's really depends on your wall on your scope on what you are trying to achieve in your work yeah so the EA has a new home it's right there on the screen home and uh to come to look at their stuff in in service now and start taking action and and getting value out of the data that we're managing here uh absolutely and if we look uh we we started to create so so this is really the home page and this is really the the up-level data and when we we started to look into this we are also starting to we you can see on the left side we start oh some of the other features that we have here and I will start with the the very simple notion of being able to see the entire portfolio in one place so it's true in service now everybody can create a your your favorites or your bookmarks but we were trying to give you already what are the favorites of which items you should track as an Enterprise architect so we'll see all the business capabilities and applications and the digital Integrations and the the the how applications connect one to another and the information objects and so on and you can of course see the data uh in entirely you you can filter it you can sort it so this is really the standard or the the good standard the way that service now allow you to slice and dice data that comes up in structure of tables and you you can also if you want see the things only the things that you own the things that you you you are responsible for and this is why I said it's targeted to Enterprise Architects but also business owners so solution Architects if I'm a solution architect and I'm dealing now with five or six applications I can dive here and see it only in my eyes and the view that I have for the world so this is really a very easy way to get to your portfolio and so small is the side of the application portfolio management where you you can really see the portfolio that you have in your organization yeah yeah perfect and and so sincerely usually the the authors are the ones that are managing these um like the business apps and capabilities and information objects they're they have a place to come and manage that data as portfolios here all together because that's one of the things we didn't have for a long time is an easy way to you know bring it all together have one sort of One-Stop shop it all got lost in the Navigator it was hard to find everything um so so now this is sort of their new home and there's new their new world to come to uh things that are interesting for them uh specifically huh yeah and what one what one thing on top of this is of course that it makes their experience no different from the colleagues that are using the uh so if I'm an Enterprise architect I can now discuss the same items as my Cindy BP so my service management peers they will see same they will have the same user experience they will see the same data and indeed some of the things that you'll die here the more you dive into the data so if I dive into a specific application I will start to see the same I would say reviews that I will see also if I would dive to similar information in my cndb some of the information will be extended some will have more business context but in the general terms of the user experience I will be able to speak in the same language as my pills which will make the these conversations that we have between a Enterprise architect between the planning side of the world and the operational side of the world yeah a little bit more easier to discuss when when you use the same interface got it yeah so this essentially replaces the old APM home page and some of The Navigators that you had before and even some of the reports because now you have them all built into the workspace yeah at least this is the goal so we are I would say the APM product is uh passing through an evolution stage so while we are removing from the old the UI so we're adding more and more feature uh one one nice feature is here is the new capability map that we had so if you're familiar with the old world so we still have the old experience we still have the APM with uh I would say broader functionality but with time and 2023 is the time that we plan to migrate all the capabilities and all the information that we have and all the users screens that we had in the old APM to this new workspace and eventually yes APM should be the place where you go and manage your application portfolio management plus doing extended things that an Enterprise architect will want to do one is forcing the future and planning for the future and and so on so yeah indeed this is the new new experience for the application portfolio management got it yeah and and this is uh the new capability hierarchies yes so this is the new capability hierarchy so uh we what we did is we based this on the uh experience that we did before and what we can see is really the three of business capabilities so we can see a top level capabilities and inside them lower level capabilities we can see the scores of the business capabilities and we can upfront this is a bit a little bit different from the previous screen here we can see I've found this course that we have for the people or for process or for technology scores and we can sort it based on this so it's a little bit easier to manipulate the data in this way plus we can also see the business applications that are supporting so here in this case I can see that the application byte is supporting this capabilities of developing products and services and if I want to see more later on this I can see it on the right side and I can get all the information or I can navigate and again it will open in a new tab and I will get to this business application and going back to to the screen it's also a screen that I can walk with so if I want to add a capability or create a side capability or assign a business capability I can change it and use this screen to manipulate it and yeah so so we're still working on this so this is not a done thing so one of the things for example that we are missing today from the screen and we are planning to edit in the future release is the integration of the connection to our strategic portfolio management so this yes so if you remember we used to be able to open a demand so to open projects so so this is something that we are planning to add so you you can both use it to to I would say to assess your situation but also to take decisions we need to create some demand to to fix it or we need to assign some project to do it in the collaboration with SPM here is critical for us yeah so this is your your 1l workspace experience that you've had right up until this point there was no workspace experience at all for anything in your in your product yeah so it's indeed So eventually this will all be I would say a singular experience so so the goal would be that Enterprise architects and again it's an Enterprise architect but it can be Cloud Architects or solution Architects what wants to go into this they wouldn't need to leave this experience got it there are still cases where they will want to do setup of the system so I would say more administrative tasks and I'm not sure that all of them will move to the workspace but for doing the day-to-day job the goal is that they will stay with this within this screen indeed yeah that's awesome that's awesome and now there's a few things that I saw on the portfolios um that kind of piqued my interest and I know we've talked about these in the past but digital integration so that's new as well is that right yes indeed so digital integration actually was released in the same time frame of the of the Enterprise Architects workspace and here I think we are starting to answer one big questions for customers which is we know our business applications we know what so it's a great tool to manage them all and so on but we also want to see how they relate to one another in our one business application is connected to the rest of the world and with the digital integration and digital interfaces model we enabled to see the relationships between business applications so for example yeah so for example we can see the I would I usually call it the left side business application the right side business application but this this is the subscriber business application so we have one application uh that's for example servicenow that is connected to another application which is a customer portal and we can also see via which interface it's going to so we allow you for for this type of connections which of course helps you to see the world in a more realistic way it's not just islands of applications but everything eventually depending one upon the other yeah and this is more for the design view though and this isn't actually how it's maybe implemented in real life but it's really how you're capturing those Integrations maybe the intent the design before you implement them and then you know this can be used in a in a like a a design document that the build team would actually use to to make it work in real life yes absolutely so so what we see in this world is that that I would say two or three ways to to look into this so indeed what we are doing here is we we enable customers to see uh they are planning to build their business application integration so uh one business application could connect to another and and to to put also uh the some functional elements about it so is it an outgoing or is it scheduled integration and the interaction type and if we use any kind of middleware and so so we can see it but when this integration is actually being implemented in the field there is actually usually a connection between two production supplications and we know from the our modeling from the csdm world this will usually be or should be what rate is application Services yes so that's another steps that we are taking and we are working together with our Europeans and our peers in the csdm in in the cdb model to see how it will also be implemented in operational way and these are things that we are still working on indeed yeah yeah and there's a couple questions I want to explore on this one too because I know some customers are going to have questions about this is the the Integrations that you have here are very specific to APM they're not really part of csdm it's something that you implemented for for your product and it's not an out of the box feature is that correct yeah customers only want to use this model and this digital integration digital interface we we need to own the APM product this is not part of the csdm model uh rather part of the APM product indeed okay so what we're talking about here is that your your APM product you've got the business application here you've introduced an interface and then for each one so you can have let's say two different business applications with two different interfaces is that right or one and then show how they're connected through an integration integration is that kind of how it works yes indeed this is exactly how it works it can work with just one interface and so on but yes it's it can work with multiple ones and it's connecting a business uh application so yeah this circular and when you're pointing I just want to make sure this this doesn't need to be the same business application of course yeah yeah this is the connection between two usually two different business applications but you could say you're connected to yourself if you wanted to you know I guess but I I mean there's no point like a loopback connector right yeah it's yeah usually you won't use the API though but yeah I assume yeah you can do it yeah what one one interesting point mark may I don't know if you yeah that would be better I think a view of this one interesting point because you're showing it on the csdm what is that we also connect it to the information objects on the right so once you have this yeah indeed so once you have a digital integration you can also reflect which information objects are being transferred or been used during this so it's a good way eventually you want to track how information object is starting in one business application transfer to another business application and maybe ends up with the third business application this might be a good way to represent it but but definitely important to understand also the flow of data in the organization yeah that's cool so this can all be sort of defined a future State a new business application is going to be created for example it's going to Define an interface it's going to use this information and then the build teams eventually they can get around to building it and then it becomes a different model down here we're not going to cover this in in today's conversation but these are also now um able to show how we're connecting to each other as well there's a there's a new effort going on with my colleague Nick Ryan and uh he's he's basically or he's going to be tackling this space right so yeah and and this will not be just to be only this will not be separate world so we will we will want to show eventually the the fact that this connection between these application Services is based on this uh on the on the on this digital integration so so there will be a connection between this world so you you can track it down from the uh design level to the operational level but indeed we we this is not covered at this stage the lower level so yeah yeah the interesting thing is that the business applications representative operationally is the app service right so we have that today and now that you're capturing the Integrations between them here at the design level we can then connect it down into how it's implemented in real life in the uh data centers or in the cloud data centers or whatever yeah yeah indeed so so this makes it really a wall that you track or this is based on this digital integration in in the digital integration you can actually see more metadata about this integration and things that you might not see or know in the operational side so it gives you a little bit more context of of what the business reason what's the business critically of this integration I mean sometimes you see an integration and it's it's nice but is it critical for the business can we live without this integration and you know it's it's this these are questions that are important both to understand what you have but what you understand when you want to take things further maybe you want to move to the cloud or maybe you want to change things so so uh how do you how you should think about it that's right Integrations and and what you carry out and what do you leave behind I would say well that's cool I mean because at some point somebody's designing this right and then you gotta approve the design and that kind of triggers what you're going to deploy and how it's managed because if you have sensitive information you know we're seeing more and more breaches I I saw a report from IBM I think it was that 40 of breaches are apis that are unmanaged or not managed well where there's sensitive information going through these apis and uh operationally don't know what's out there they don't know what what's vulnerable yeah so you're able to establish that vulnerability based on the design and then of course manage how it's implemented down here it can be used more from a sec Ops perspective or even preventing somebody to put something in that the integration before it's even deployed you don't want to stop the deployment from even happening if they're putting sensitive data on an interface for example yeah and I think that's a good point because the sooner you know about this business application plan integration I think you can start to take more more steps to you know to to ensure that it will be secure properly and and based on the level of data that the the type of private information that you're passing there you it will need to have all kind of policies and so on so yeah as soon in the planning stage that you're aware of this I would say the the less chance that you you will be born to to this type of API Bridges and so on that's right yeah and and I know um this is a little sidebar but while we're on this diagram I know that you've we've made a lot of use of of trm the technology reference model and and TPM I think you know and and how that kind of bubbles up if people aren't aware it's these product models or the the vendor products which are related to the CIS and assets which are been related to the app service which is for them related to the business app to give you a score so there's a long series of hops to get the life cycle of the the vendor product here uh all up in here so that you understand the risk right is it is it a good you know your everything's okay and supported or not right if it's not supported anymore you can see that risk from that business at that point of view yeah indeed and this is like you said we have a lot of uh I would say acronyms trm and TPM but if eventually what we're trying to do and this is part of what we we released last year in Tokyo is a ability for a organization to set their own standards so they can decide which software they want to approve and which software is not approved to be used and because we are on a platform where we run also Discovery we can also tell them if they're actually following their standards so these are just a paper standards that nobody is following so we are able to set standards for Approved software and then track them and because we are in a company that also have software Asset Management we are also able to do the vendor life cycle so we're able to to look into this data and say if any of these business applications and on the lower level or in the if any of the application services is running with the software that is about to end of life or already maybe ended support or is about to end support or extended support even and then this puts this organization at a technical list and at the security risk if they are not going to get security purchase and so on so this this combination and being able to understand from the level of would say implementation to the level of discovered services and having the data on the software life cycles really helps us to reduce this risk of having a non-approved yeah blend software indeed yeah so the approval that you're talking about Ontario and maybe we can take a quick look at that is really the architecture say whether to use or not or use Technologies versus the life cycle is what your vendors are saying right in terms of their support yeah indeed yeah I I can demo it when we look go and look into the technology reference model so this is the technology reference model so what we can see here we can see which products we approved to be used in the company so for example we can see that from IBM we approve actually two products this is the HTTP server and the web uh Westview application server and on this products we can also decide notice that this web application server is approved but also which versions are approved to be used so here we can see that only version 10 or version 9.05 are approved and by the way we don't need to be strict with approvals meaning we can set different stages for approval for example we can say yeah it's approved to be used but we are on a divest mode with this software so even though you can still use it know that we are planning to move away to a different version or to a different software so in the future we we might tell you that it's not approved anymore and one important thing on this Mark is that we are having this I would say conversational or ways to approve new software so if I want to ask for news of I can request a new software for additional adding it to the theorem catalog so you can see because I opened it on TPM I can already ask for it on the IBM and because we already have the catalog of software from from the sample that we can already approve it from here so I won't fill up all the details here but here I can submit a request and I can submit it in a different stage so I can say maybe I just want to evaluate it and use it and I can save it and submit it in once I'll submit it it will go for the Enterprise architectural team to approve it and then it can be added as one of the standards to my company and I later can track it so we talk about tracking and having the so I just discard these changes we talk about having the ability to run our own Discovery and discover if the technology standards are being followed or not being followed and in this view we can actually see for example software so we see a business application that has several application Services any we could see for example that somebody is using this software the Microsoft server but we see that it's the life cycle of it we can look into the life cycle of it and we can see that the life cycle phase we have a moderate risk because it is a life cycle that is a already about to expire so we can see the expiration date about here and we can see though that it's still approving our company that the trm life cycle is in a poof state so from internal point of view we are still fine of finding it and this all this data is collected usually in an automated way VIA Discovery and Via our service mapping so everything here is collected in an automated way yeah yeah so so the trm process is kind of interesting so you can look at the universe of possible products based on our Sam catalog and ask for new ones to be added uh is that is that right is that what you're describing there yes so we come with the sum catalog it's a part of our sample so there you have all the vendors and the software that they maintain and it's the user I can ask for a specific software to be used and the Enterprise architecture usually and I'm talking in general terms in some companies it might be different owners for different Technologies they they can go ahead and design and approve which software they actually want to use uh there might be architectural consideration there there might be cost consideration there of course legal considerations of the right type of licenses and so on so all of this goes into the considerations but then there is a set of approved software and approved versions and if anyone wants something on top of this you can ask for it otherwise it's simply going to use something that is not approved and this will reflect down and in an automated way and then we can touch base with him or see why it's software being used and if it's not a part of the standards that we're yeah okay so we're connecting all those dots and I guess the only other thing that would be interesting since we're using product models we can easily interface that with our catalog because our our catalog functionality works on product models naturally that's kind of how it how it by default is expecting to work so people can order those Technologies once they're approved and their standard for example yeah exactly this is the same language that we're using the same language across the product so once you identify this software you can leverage it with this sort of model to to order more for me to to uh or to stop other information yeah to to reclaim some of this software if it's not been used any you don't want to approve it you can start to claim it and to ask hey this is not an approved software and we actually mark it inside the sum that this software is not approved anymore so now they can start to do some stuffing on the if you're a software asset management manager you can now start to do something that will actually eventually should save you money if you see this yeah you've been using people are using it still you can reclaim it you can tell the mate you have a 60 days to stop using it to move to this software which is now approval or or something of this kind but you can actually start to take care of it from the software Asset Management side of things yeah so everybody's on the same page with the architecture's decision they get rid of something for example the asset managers can now start you know proactively pulling it out or you know working through that whole process yeah yeah and this is I think one of the things that is nice that you because we have the luxury of working on a connected platform is that things are not hanging up in one product decision that is not translated to real to real execution so you can both decide on this platform and both sit in in a actual place where you can actually implement it like the software asset management for example yeah that's really cool I didn't know that feedback was there too and it really makes a lot of sense right when you think about the bigger picture and how these products work together yeah absolutely yeah well cool um yeah anything else to own I mean I think we covered a lot here today is there anything else that's in APM that you wanted to show me I think this is huge uh this workspace and this new user experience I think Mark once we once we have future releases maybe I will be happy to be hosted it again there will be a lot of new things coming up this year in 2023 for eight years yeah yeah to be able to come back and show more stuff here yeah that'd be good and I know that you have a lucidchart integration for example I'd like to take a look at that I know that that's available now uh of course you'd have to set that up and integrate it but um I know that that's another option for EAS to start doing you know visualizing the model of the data that's in the platform indeed this is something we added last year and actually we are continuing to work with our Pearson Lucid so now customers are able to export the data to lucid and in the coming up in the something I hope during the middle of this year or a little bit later they will be able also to model things in lucid and save them into service now so it will be a two-way integration very interesting be great yeah yeah yeah so maybe we can do another session on that one I would like to see that absolutely all right well thanks I know I'm out of time for our session here and uh but this has been very beneficial and thanks for having this conversation and showing me some of the new stuff in APM and now with this new EA portal and some of the the cool things like trm and digital interfaces and digital Integrations that you now have absolutely thank you thank you Mark for having me thank you thanks