process mining may not sound like the sexiest thing to a developer but today's guest is going to convince us why you really want to consider it in your overall platform strategy welcome to breakpoint the servicenow developer podcast here's your host Chuck tomasi hello servicenow admins Builders developers and all of you curious individuals and yes of course I say that always with the utmost love and respect welcome to or welcome back to breakpoint the servicenow developer podcast where we bring you the latest tools tips and tradecraft to accelerate your career in this episode I am very excited to be talking to longtime co-worker and friend senior staff outbound product manager at servicenow Mr Dan Grady how are you today Dan um fantastic Chuck appreciate the opportunity to be here with you today I'm a long time listener First Time guest so I'm super excited all right have you been on any other podcasts before uh no but uh amazingly now that I've joined this uh or taken this role here at servicenow I'm getting more and more requests to be a guest so I've got a few more coming up I'm excited you and I have known each other for several years as I mentioned but we really haven't socialized all that much together so now is a chance to get to know you a bit better who is Dan Grady the senior staff outbound product manager man that's a long title uh yeah I usually just say product manager but uh yeah father of three daughters Kate Maeve and Shay uh married to a loving and hard-working wife Nora sports fan and uh love sharing a cold beverage and a story with a friend or just a friendly face at a hotel bar in the middle of nowhere while I'm out on the road telling the process optimization story now I gotta ask you what did you do before you were a product manager at servicenow yeah so I spent 20 years at a business intelligence and analytics company called information Builders and uh nice thing about that I I started there as an intern so I'm very uh fond of any sort of internship opportunities because it gave me a nice start to my career and I got to do a number of different things there kind of growing up in the company I started out in quality assurance or quality engineering hearing I think it's cold these days and I moved into product management and product marketing moved into solution Consulting and sales so I've got the opportunity to work with lots of Parts different parts of the business about six years ago as presented with the opportunity to join uh servicenow right at the time that we were introducing performance analytics uh to the world um and it seemed like a nice opportunity to bring an in-platform analytics message to the servicenow community and since then I've kind of I started on a solution Consulting side um and then kind of we added additional in platform capabilities like predictive intelligence and the virtual agent was part of the teams that were responsible for bringing those stories um and the value that those solutions could provide to to our customer base that's about are pads intersected in those early performance analytics days I think you and I were in Peter's early class before we even had a real class exactly you were one of the first people when I joined this said you know what you should reach out to this guy Chuck he's a good guy to know here at servicenow and that was uh probably talked to you in one of my first couple weeks on the job here at service now and that in about seven bucks would get you a cup of coffee look how well that paid off yeah what do you like best about your job I I would say I guess besides the opportunity to work with some real smart people including yourself I think I enjoyed that there's always something new to learn and a new story to tell I mean I don't know how many episodes of this podcast you've done so far Chuck but there are probably hundreds more that you could too so it's for somebody who likes to learn a servicenow is a great place to be and in the current role I mean it's it's kind of we're introducing a newer capability to our customers so learning how they're using it and some of the insights that they're finding while they use it that's it's a lot of fun for somebody like me it is a lot of fun I don't know what it is I spent a few hours this weekend working on a project as well and you know if if this were any other jobs I ah I gotta keep working on this project Jake got to get it done before two weeks when the new guy starts or I won't have any more time like no heck I'm having a great old time like good challenges good knowledge good learning good sharing uh there's something in the chemistry about this platform that makes it a lot of fun or maybe we're just weird that's one of my uh favorite quotes or song lyrics that I use all the time or reference all the time it's a James Taylor song and he says uh the secret of life is enjoying the passing of time I mean I think that's a it's a nice thing to have in you know life in general but if you find a a job or an opportunity in which you get to enjoy yourself while you do it it's pretty good I'm so glad you made that James Taylor quota not the one that says sweet dreams and flying machines and people's on the ground I know that one too but uh I'm traveling this week and I'm gonna choose to leave that one out of my mind we are seriously nerding out here I'm not sure what's going on a couple more questions about you before we get into our main topic when you're not at work what do you enjoy doing yeah is nothing an acceptable answer um yes yes it is well that that would be it then I don't have a ton of hobbies I mean I watch sports I hang out with the family and friends I I try to exercise now and then but I think sometimes I think me being seen with a Peloton shirt on may be the reason that the stock price has dropped so much um but that yeah I nothing is something that I enjoy doing most okay fun question for you to close this part out if you could build a house anywhere in the world where would it be and why yeah you know so the funny thing during the pandemic uh we kind of paid way too much money or put way too much money into rebuilding our current home in our current neighborhood so we kind of made that choice uh and that has a lot to do with uh loving kind of being with our family and friends in the area that we are um but if if money was no object and we could transport the people that we love with us it uh probably be somewhere near the water right I live on Long Island right now but I'm not really near the water so maybe building a place out east on Long Island on the water would be something that would keep me close to friends from a traveling perspective I loved Hawaii and I loved the Amalfi Coast so so uh maybe houses in those areas would be our house in those areas would be like I just nothing like uh waking up and taking a walk on the beach and kind of listening to waves crash across the crash on the shore that's something that I enjoy so it would be a bit near the water I don't know exactly where but near the water for sure alrighty good answer let's get into our main topic then let's start out the new listeners and new the platform with what is in platform process Mining and why should the developer admin Listener Care got it yeah so the platform it's it's all about workflows right um and workflows that are meant to improve the way in which things get done in platform process money or process optimization which is the the brand name we we give the solution is all about x-raying those workflows and identifying bottlenecks non-conformant activities and Improvement opportunities in those workflows that if acted upon could improve the experience for anyone and everyone interacting with the workflow so it helps us answer questions like where is rework happening which steps in the process are taking the longest what type of work is consistently going into let's say an on hold or an awaiting user info State and then you know one of everyone's favorites is like which work is ping-ponging between groups and slowing us down so all about that that x-raying the workflow and kind of shining a light on where we can be doing better that would have been so handy when I was a customer it's I'm telling you Chuck every time you show somebody what it does for the first time they're like well yeah we can use this where was this when I was a kid yes you mentioned some of the features but what are some of the benefits of doing this in platform yep so three big ones that I'll touch on I say briefly but I tend to talk a little while so the three big ones that I really like to point out are one are data availability and access content and kind of creating an efficient closed loop experience so let's let's look at those each individually so like with most solutions these days process mining Solutions are powered by data and a third-party process mining solution there's a significant amount of time spent by day in different which systems the data they want to mine is in then getting the access to those systems then extracting the relevant data in the appropriate format and massaging it to load into the solution and you've got to do all of that before anyone can begin to get any sort of insights out of the data and it's just exhausting just saying all those things out loud and in a lot of scenarios that could be weeks of effort um as an in-platform solution data availability is not really a problem for us right I I always like to say if you can you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball or probably more appropriately if you can build a report you can visualize your workflows on the servicenow platform and process optimization has our customers finding insights in in a matter of many I had one customer tell me the other day that they found two virtual agent conversations that would improve an intake experience in the first 10 minutes that they were using the solution wow yeah it's it's it's really really powerful now another Advantage is the content that we provide so for our out of the box workflows we know some common inefficiencies that often pop up and that allows us to provide content packs that help accelerate the process of identifying those inefficiencies and think about like back in the day with performance analytics we had content packs with pre-built kpis we do the same thing now with process optimization so for incident problem change request HR case or an HR Service delivery and life cycle events or in customer service cases we provide pre-built configurations that highlight certain Improvement opportunities in those different workflows so that's another big advantage and the last one I'll point out is process optimization's ability to help customers create a what I like to call a more efficient closed-loop continual Improvement experience it so if you you think about what goes into it in improving improving a workflow there's really four phases uh detect analyze improve Monitor and we offer all those on a single platform which not a lot of people can say so you can use things like notifications on slas or targets and thresholds on performance analytics kpis to detect or discover that something's going bump in the night are trending in the wrong direction then you'd use process optimization to analyze why that's happening and how to improve so process optimization is going to give us things like visualize process map which is what everybody sees and gets excited about But it includes things like bottleneck analysis root cause analysis variation analysis and the connection with automation Discovery to speed the process of figuring out what went wrong and how to make it better then once you use process optimization to identify the opportunities you have to act on them right um and there's no better platform and the moral that acting on things and improving them and and that really is what the platform does best so let's say maybe you identify an opportunity to improve an intake experience using the virtual agent maybe with process optimization you identify work that is delayed due to ping-ponging and you use predictive intelligence to kind of help that work get to the right place the first time and eliminate some of the time spent in the ping pong maybe you identify a manual step in the process and you can automate a way into that away with like let's say an integration or RPA bot or maybe an identified an opportunity to improve that doesn't involve an automation at all right sometimes sometimes we just see things that it's a human thing that we can just coach up for or simply stop doing right I had one customer the other day tell me that they identified that they had two levels of approval on a request for printer toner like do we really need two levels of approval for for printer toner how did somebody not spot that in a process review yes well there was some complaints coming in but then you know when you visualize the process and you can see how much time that second level of approval is taking you can really justify removing that approval like it was adding some three extra days per each request which you hey don't need that second level approval we gain three days of productivity back so tons of opportunity in that improved phase with the platform and then finally we have the monitor phase right once we find these insights we want to make sure that they get tracked acted upon and measured and that's where the pre-built connections on the platform with things like continual Improvement management and automation Center coming right too often like uh insights get found and then they get lost in the shuffle and these applications help us track them ensure that and ensure that they get acted upon right the the fact that we have all four of these phases right detect analyze improve and monitor in a single platform this is a significant Advantage for our customers who want to make improvements a continual thing and you know not just one of these one-off science projects that we do it happens and then we we kind of never come back to whatever again I do have to stick in a little disclaimer here I know people are starting to get excited to go oh I want to look at process optimization uh unfortunately it's not currently available on pdis is that still correct as of that's that is correct and it's it's due to the fact that we use the machine learning infrastructure um to handle the mining portion of it so one of the questions that often comes up when you start showing people the the power of the solution is like whoa what like is that that's super powerful is that going to have any impact on the performance of the instance and the answer is no because we're using that that shared machine learning infrastructure so once you configure a project to be mine when you hit the button to do the mining it harvests the relevant data that it needs and it passes that off to the machine learning infrastructure does all the heavy duty number crunching over there and spits it back into the instance so you know and then visualizes it with the map um so the pdis today are not connected to the machine learning infrastructure which is the reason you can't but any customer can turn it on and try it out in their subprod environment uh if they'd like to all right good information just want to throw that out there in case anybody was wondering I know our developers always ask it's it's almost as predominant as the domain separation question supported hey answered that one I didn't even have to ask so let's look at some examples of how this would make life better you mentioned the the toner cartridge experience I like no one yeah do you have more well yeah I mean there's tons of stories but if you think about just the continual improved process for many today it's it's very manual time consuming and costly right it it involves combing through a whole bunch of reports and I don't know why people still do this but they still feel the need to print the reports out and then go through them with the highlighter um then after you go through some of the data it usually involves kind of holding in Virtual and in-person workshops um and that those are those workshops where you take a whole bunch of Post-it notes and you stick them up on a wall and then you take a picture of those Post-it notes on the wall and you posted to some internal site that you have to make sure everyone knows that you did this because the work really happen unless we're posting a picture of Post-it notes on a wall somewhere there's like there's an XKCD comic in there somewhere then once you do that sometimes you got to bring in third party consultants and ultimately after all this other stuff happens uh you usually have to get internal alignment on the best path forward at the organization at the rate that which most of our organizations are changing even if we get through all this stuff right the best path forward may have already changed so being able to visualize the reality of your workflows and opportunities to improve in minutes is a huge accelerator to the the continual improvement process so that's that's one place in which process optimization helps make life better the other area I see a lot of excitement from our customers is is something I like to call getting to the why behind their kpis um as we've talked about already I've spent a number of years at servicenow working with our customers in the performance analytics area now performance analytics is great at answering questions about how workflows are performing over time and you usually kind of stand up those kpis and visualizations in a dashboard but when they leadership had questions about what's going on in the dashboard like they see something let's say their mttr trending in the wrong direction or their csat scores turning in the wrong direction and they obviously had questions like why is that happening and it's been challenging for a lot of our customers over the years to answer those follow-up why questions you know with process optimization we can now start answering all those follow-up questions about what they were seeing on their dashboards and how to keep things trending in the right direction or increase the momentum that we have moving in the right direction moving forward so that's an area again if you're using performance analytics today I know you've got a bunch of questions that you've been asked that usually involve some sort of kidney twist to get the answer to over the years we make that a lot easier now we don't have visuals on this show it's an audio only podcast some might say some of our guests have a face for radio I'm not I'm not casting any dispersions on you Dan no I look like George Clooney on podcasts we'll go with that I'm not sure what happened to George in the last year but [Laughter] how how to describe what the outputs are that you get with process optimization sure sure I'll try to do it justice but uh I I probably won't so you can go out there if you search up process optimization you're going to find lots of recordings and content out there so you can see it in action but in three or four clicks you get a dashboard that that shows you common inefficiencies and non-conformed activities in the form of of cards on this dashboard so picture a card that says hey 25 of your tickets have been reopened more than once and you can drill right down into that card and investigate further via a visualized process map or maybe you get a card that says hey uh 33 of your tickets are ping pong in between more than two groups right now and again drill down on onto that to see and the opportunity Improvement on those same cards you also get information around kind of how much productivity is being lost so those 25 of tickets that have been reopened more than once their average duration is this oh and if we look at the volume that's there that's three years worth of time that you can claim back if you can improve upon this process so there's that initial dashboard that highlights those opportunities to improve right out of the box uh then you also get a visualized process map that shows you all of the individual routes that the tickets are taking and the volume and velocity between each of the Hops in those routes I often compare it to uh like when I see it it looks to me like a ski trail map yes I'm seeing all of the different paths that people are taking to get down the mountain I mean then when I see any of the lines on the map going up the mountain that's typically something that I that I I stop and look at because it usually is an improvement actually because some form of rework is happening within the process now I don't ski much anymore but if I think back to when I did anytime I had to go back up the mountain after I had started going down the mountain it wasn't the best experience and it certainly wasn't the most efficient way to get down the mountain being able to see those those negative process experiences at scale in a visual way is very very powerful for those who are interested in getting better absolutely I love that analogy I as a fellow skier or I don't know maybe I am a former skier I haven't been out in a few years I am most definitely a former skier every time I go my brain says hey you're not 18 anymore exactly exactly the body never listens Chuck I'm gonna be sore just from doing this podcast so um is that a backhand I'm not sure no no no no no no it's just uh well Dan you and I talked a little bit before recording this what can you tell me about the finding definitions sure so I I just kind of mentioned the the experience that somebody would have with process optimization and I mentioned those cards that show up on the dashboard the insights that are there as soon as somebody hits the mine button and the dashboard the summary inside pages is a bunch of cards um that tell them hey a certain percentage of your tickets meet these criteria it's an inefficiency and those are things that we provide content pack for Content packs for but customers also have the ability to create their own finding definitions and I usually compare these two like when I was a kid um playing hide and seek and when I was playing hide and seek at home I had like a home field advantage right I I knew the the three or four best hiding places so when I was it I was much more efficient at finding my friends than they were at finding me same thing with our customers and and the process owners service owners or the application owners out there when you start talking to them I'm willing to bet that they have a hunch or a hypothesis around some of the common inefficiencies within their workflow they probably know that there's a problem child group out there or they probably know that there's a problem child category of cases out there that they they just can't really visualize or get a handle on how to quantify the impact that those inefficiencies are making these finding definitions allow them to one configure hey here's the inefficiency that I think is happening and then when they run a mining have a card pop up on a dashboard that tells them hey 26 of our cases are going to this state and then they're going to this state and then they're going to this group and you know what those 26 percent of cases are impacting Us in this way from a a velocity perspective or a speed perspective it's it's adding three to six days every time a ticket goes through this path before we can get the closure so those finding definitions are really powerful part of the solution I mean they they help people uh kind of accelerate their path to Improvement I would say I like the hide and seek analogy another great visual what was Chuck let's ask you what was your favorite hiding spot when you were playing hide and seek as a kid at home did you have a favorite hiding spot I grew up in a three-store Victoria Korean home there were hiding spots that I don't even think my dad knew about let's see mine was the the cabinet next to the kitchen sink like well I could still fit in it it was a really good hiding spot nobody would think to look inside of a cabinet behind a bunch of canned soup to find a child the problem with playing hide and seek was well there was an advantage because we had nine kids so you didn't have to look very long to find somebody but to find that last child was usually a two-week operation there you go we could create a finding definition for that and then when you mind that last child would immediately be exposed on a dashboard we know that there's a relationship between process optimization and many other capabilities on the platform one of which is automation engine which we talked about a little while ago before and if anybody missed it automation engine is integration Hub it is RPA Hub and it is document intelligence as of the time we record this in Q4 of 2022 not going to say what the landscape's gonna look like in six months let alone out further into the future is there a relation ship and what does that look like between process optimization and say automation Center which is that that front pane of glass you get to your process optimizations and your your automations yep so that's actually um one of the things that I think is super important I mentioned it earlier in terms of that closed loop experience we create on the platform for folks and you know I've gotten away I've I don't once I've gotten away because I still slip up everything but I'm making it a point to try to remember when there's parts of the servicenow platform that work to get together to create a better experience sometimes people slip and say well it's integrated with this it's integrated with that we're on the same platform it's not really an integration it's a connection right they're connected together I mean we've done that with process optimization we've connected process optimization to both continue Improvement management and automation Center so right inside a process optimization we have something called the analyst workbench where you see the visualized process map as you're going through when you're identifying insights that need to be acted upon you click a button panel slides out from the right hand side of the screen and you either can create a new continual Improvement initiative or you can create an automation idea in automation center right from there so it's a simple step to connect the two and those are important because you know I always say like I've been doing analytics for a long time sometimes you you go out you do a bunch of you dig into something you analyze some data you find an Insight you go tell your friend at lunch what you found and that's where the Insight dies and nothing ever changes this bulk continual Improvement management and automation Center give us a way to capture that we found this thing this Improvement opportunity and that ensures that it gets followed up on right because we can prioritize the continue Improvement initiatives or the automation Center ideas to make sure that hey these things need to get acted upon first and the nice thing about automation Center is it actually then allows us to start tracking the value and the impact that the Improvement is making over time so anytime that automation gets run that was founded inside of process optimization you can see right inside of automation Center the impact it's making which I think is super important right it's one of the things that I I'm not think enough customers do is you did this awesome thing don't tell people that you did this awesome thing and use data to drive that and say hey look we made this change here's the impact that it made because when you start telling those stories it generates momentum inside of the organization around like hey we can continually get better right we want to make sure that these aren't one-time activities we just want to keep getting better over and over again having data and dashboards to kind of tell that story is always a benefit and it's so much easier I want to hit that that point again about a single database single platform if you've ever done development on another system or series of systems you may you you will appreciate this but you may not remember it you know Dan and I've been on the platform file and you need the occasional reminder but if you're new to the platform this is a serious benefit uh think about when you make a report on servicenow versus exporting the data and doing it in some third-party thing when you're on the platform you can click through the bar chart or the donut slice or whatever and see the actual data that's underneath okay that's a simple example that I think all of us learned in sysadmin class or system fundamentals whatever it is now and take that forward to say process optimization where it's got the data that you need sends it to machine learning but it gets the results back and goes hey there's an opportunity to not to go back up the ski hill here put that into automation Center possibly build an integration or or something else to help automate that away and you know this is all in one platform if you're looking at third-party tools to do this you lose that value of having the depth of that information and the breadth of those capabilities you know that's not to say that there are some bespoke tools that do some of these things really really well but once you've exported data off the platform you lose that additional value of having a single source of information that is hugely valuable I'm saying this to developers and admins because you're going to encounter this situation at some point with your VPS and directors and Senior VPS and you should be ready to go you know it's hugely impactful to have all of this stuff on one platform because the minute we start building Integrations you've got technical debt there the minute you start building going outside to another platform you've lost some visibility to the underlying data there it's it's just I gotta say it once in a while to remind myself as well so that's that's why I bring this up now one of the things that I we always show when we do a demonstration of process optimization is kind of you're on the map right you're on the ski Trail let's say I mean you see one of those scenarios where something's going up in the hill to be able to be in a single click to say I want to see these records or these tickets that went back up the hill in a single click get down to them and then plug for I think one of the most underutilized capabilities on the servicenow platform you're in that list of Records you see something that said I want to create a bar chart or you want to create a pie chart of just those records on the list but there's also an option called interactive analysis on a list that in a single click we'll take those records and turn them into an interactive dashboard right I always say that information is one of the most addictive and contagious things about that's out there right you give somebody a little bit and they always want more or so to be able to to kind of say hey I've got this now I got down to the details but I dig into those details a little bit further in a single quick get an interactive dashboard super powerful and that's just again a platform capability that you get um with the data that's flowing through the workflows on the platform okay time for my favorite question for product managers sure can you give us a hint of what's on the roadmap yeah uh so one of the things that we released in Tokyo so this is this is not a roadmap thing but it's something that we're super proud of and I'm excited to continually enhance is the ability to visualize interconnected processes it's something called a multi-dimensional process mining it's a ominous type of term but think about let's say HR onboarding now that's a process that has a parent life cycle event right in case that's there but then a number of subtasks uh through each of the onboarding stages that are out there we can visualize that process holistically in a single process map now so you can start seeing all the interconnections between the different steps of the process um and the different tasks that are out there or maybe let's use an example that's a little bit more familiar across workflows let's look at the request process right you've got a request then you've got a requested item then you have the tasks for each of those individual items so we have the ability to visualize that entire request life cycle there from the top all the way down to the individual test to see bottlenecks in that workbook so that's something released in Tokyo one of the things that we're recognizing is that process mining is a new muscle for a lot of our customers I mean for many of us here at servicenow in some cases so continuing to improve I was going to say the readability of those internet interconnected process Maps because it's not a skill that everyone out there is comfortable with just yet so making sure that those maps are a little bit more readable and kind of highlight the opportunities within them and something that we're focused on moving forward we're putting a bunch of effort into improving the connection with performance analytics so today there's a really tight connection already you can go directly from a kpi in performance analytics to a visualized process map of the data behind that kpi in a single click already there but what we wanted to do is we wanted to make it easier to embed performance analytics content on the process optimization summary and insights page so that same page where you see all those finding definitions and insights cards you have the ability to embed uh performance analytics widgets to create a more complete experience but today you're using UI Builder to kind of make adjustments to the out of the box uh I'll call it a dashboard that's there um and not everyone is a UI Builder expert out there that tends to involve some sort of development skills today um we're working towards making it way easier like a wizard-like experience for people to adjust and put the kpis on that screen that they want so they don't necessarily have to be a real heavy duty UI Builder user to to make those changes so that's another area and then we're always looking to expand our workflow coverage so today you can apply process optimization to itsm so like incident problem change request HR case and life cycle event customer service management cases and create a workflow so those custom applications that you've built on the platform and you want to start improving those you can use process optimization in that area but there's demand for itbm where I think it's referenced as SPM these days so looking at that idea of demand to project kind of workflow interconnected with that multi-dimensional mining piece there's demand for that or let's say governor and risk workflows so as part of our roadmap we're always looking to expand that coverage to make it happen so there's which with each of those individual workflows we're kind of working with those bu's to make sure that there's that coverage that they need because it's not just and technically you could do it today but it's that that content that I mentioned earlier that we want those be used to to kind of provide for us or work with us on um and then the last thing that I would say is we're constantly looking for ways to automate the recommendations of improvement opportunities um so today we we've bundled in automation Discovery with the process optimization workspace so as you mine data we apply automation Discovery to it an automation Discovery calls out like hey we've got out of the box virtual agent conversations that could help with this inefficiency um but we've also got other ways as I mentioned earlier to to automate things on the platform like RPA Hub or integration so we're looking for ways to expose those opportunities in a an easier fashion for our customers so they're not always digging into the map to find them the opportunities are presented to them right up front as often as possible Dan we've talked a lot about process optimization what about enablement somebody wants to get started or start looking into this where would they go a couple of options um first one is there is a now learning course on the now learning site it's a self-paced training about 90 minutes or if you listen to it on two two times speed 45 minutes uh to get through so there's a self-paced training called process optimization Essentials out there on the now learning site then in addition to that we've got a product Hub in the new community or it used to be called a community forum for process optimization and we put a ton of content on that page for you to learn up on your own if you wanted to do that and then another option is bi-weekly process optimization Academy so I host every other Friday at 10 A.M Eastern uh something we call Process optimization Academy where I'll get on I'll talk about a topic for about 30 minutes and then open it up to more of an office hour sessions for customers to ask questions we've got about eight of those out there at the time of this recording so everything from the why and what of process optimization to configuring your first process model to configuring your first HR Case Model which is the most recent one that we did so there's there's those recordings out there and you can find them again in that product Hub page or if you go to the community YouTube channel there's a channel just for process optimization academies I'll include links to that in the show notes and if you're listening to this on a podcast client that supports chapters I'll also put a link in there so you can go right to that while you're listening of course we're nearing the end and this is the part where I ask do you have any contact information to share sure you can certainly find me on LinkedIn it's Dan Grady servicenow is probably the best way because I'm sure there's more than one day and Grady out there on LinkedIn on Twitter you can find me at tweetgrady uh out there and then if you you wanted to send me a note via email I'm happy to take that as well it's dan.grady at servicenow.com oh thank you lots of different ways to get in touch with you and we look forward to that and thank you wonderful listener for joining us today don't forget to check out the other servicenow podcast you can find them all at servicenow.com Community under the events menu be sure to subscribe to this and all the podcasts over there for absolutely free these are free of charge you can get them automatically delivered to you as I mentioned there are podcast clients out there on your mobile devices your desktop whatever so that you don't miss another episode of this or any of the other podcasts that we have breakpoint is brought to you by servicenow executive producer would be me Chuck tomasi video captions by Earl Duque and find out more about the service now developer program we invite you to head over to developer.servicenow.com again thank you so much for joining us and sharing with us today Dan no it was great I appreciate the opportunity to be again test on something that I've listened to for years now please let us know what you think about this podcast you can leave feedback or ask questions in the servicenow community for more great information on servicenow development check out the servicenow developer portal at developer.servicenow.com thanks for listening ah technology it's a wonderful thing when it works change is hard change is expensive why you really want to consider it in your overall starting is always the hardest part next question let's talk about that's not even a question let's try this wait did we skip a question we did no no this is right that's right the finding definitions okay okay let's try that slow down I can only copy and paste fast I don't have much I I basically just dumped every piece of knowledge I have so that's called specialization oh we've talked a lot about enablement no I'm sorry I read the question before and that's where we'll end the recording all right that was seven minutes of our life we'll never get back good thing the recording's over