hey Caitlin um thanks for doing the session with me this is our csdm and product sessions um I I am the product manager for csdm and and Caitlin uh what's your title role here yeah hi Mark I'm the product manager for digital portfolio management and I also own products called service portfolio management and service Builder awesome yeah we just did the service Builder session last time this is going to be a continuation of that kind of series that we started on and we're going to cover DPM today which was one of my favorite topics yeah I'm excited thanks so much for having me back this will be a great session I hope that it gives uh customers a lot of value sure it will and you know one of the things about the name it's kind of a broad name digital portfolio management maybe we want to explain a little bit backstory how we got here and you know what is the digital portfolio anyway you know no it's a good point and I tell you what there's very few things harder than naming something at least for me and so committee but I don't know if I added a ton of great input there uh yeah a reason why we landed on on digital portfolio is um kind of this concept around having a I'm going to try not to use the word portfolio over and over again but basically a grouping of things that somebody owns and manages like collectively so we did a lot of research that led to this product and one of the main initiations which you were at the Forefront of Mark um was really what's what's this kind of overlapping connection between application portfolio management and service portfolio management and the key roles within that namely the people who own those apps and services and I mean I I don't know about you but in owning service portfolio management I would get so many questions from customers about you know what's the difference between service portfolio and application portfolio management when does it make sense to do one versus the other should I do them both how do they like build upon each other what are the roles that are involved and how are they related and um so This research I think really helped to provide some some clarity specifically related to the key roles of you know someone who owns services and apps yeah yeah and I I kind of grew up in the application space right in the APM space I was the product manager for that product was when it came out originally six years ago now boy um but it was um we had the same questions like what's the difference between an application and a service and you know both coexisting on the platform gave us a unique opportunity to kind of bring them together and there's a few things that are kind of kind of doing that you know what you're one we're on the same platform so why not you know it's kind of like you know we could do it um and the second thing is that we're seeing this this focus of product teams that own both they they own the application construction and planning and all that but they also own the the experience for all the consumers they own the service and they currently had to implement two tools and see them in two completely different places because there's no place to see them together or maybe bind them together in a way to say you know here's the app end service I own absolutely exactly and you know when we talk to different folks I mean regardless of terminology because I think you'd probably know this better than anybody when you say service it can mean an app to someone else and so those words and in product it becomes all very entertainable and so one thing that was so great is with the csdm we can really ground ourselves in the definitions that have been outlined within those white papers and within that data model and best practice so when we went in and we talked to you know end users or people who would consider themselves an owner or you know very deeply responsible for something so often like you said it's not just the app but it's also the service I mean with even in with service now you know we talked to a few of our um we know they would call themselves a service owner but they are listed as the you know it app owner related to a service that's being delivered so it's it's kind of marrying these these two different sides but the way that we were solving for them was so disconnected and was so separate yeah exactly um but yeah the worlds are converging and that's kind of the exciting thing about why I'm here at servicenow too because I see this opportunity to do things um differently than what we've done historically you know um having the the service management World being completely different and separated from the app development world so devops basically realized here on the platform yes exactly I feel like surface Nails really well positioned um to help basically solve for this this Persona and for some of these challenges and so yeah so DPM was really born out of that research and the main goal of DPM was to provide a place for um an owner who again kind of going back to that that initial question around portfolios who owns a combination of services and applications that kind of come together to deliver an outcome or that are so interrelated that if one is impacted or if one isn't working then the the other Spectrum or the other end of what they're delivering um becomes affected as well and so trying to again bring these different things together and visualize them more holistically um and collectively so that's kind of the the reason why we named it uh digital portfolio management well and first of all DPM we delivered it as a door app yeah so you could find it on the store and we wanted to make it as accessible to anyone as possible so customers who have an itsm standard a a formerly itbm or now an SPM standard license or an application portfolio APM license if you have one of those modern licenses or skus you will have access to DPM on the store okay okay so it does you do have to have a certain SKU in order to get to this that's right um yeah one of those okay yes and and we we do rely you know quite heavily on performance analytics um so if you have standard you won't have quite as much you know visibility and flexibility that you get with Pro license um of course but we do offer DPM the standard so I like to call that out okay and then within here you can kind of see we have a pretty light like we pull in um you know of course business applications we also pull in services and that includes application Services I think we pull it we show it here related with the business app but then we also have portfolios and there's two kind of key types of portfolios we surface at the moment Enterprise portfolios which right now are represented by service portfolios and I can kind of show that in the product and then also this concept of a personal portfolio which is like newly introduced with DPM and then to access the workspace you can click here or if you're using our next experience we have it within this little drop down so you can click here um yeah I'm logged in as an admin so you can also kind of see some admin things here and kpi group stuff which we can talk a little bit about um but the main role is actually a DPM manager role and so once somebody has that role and they log in um they will actually see uh this is a sample user Jose Hamilton for us so we'll just impersonate him and I'll just kind of show you what it looks like than when Jose is logged in he can come here to his workspace click on digital portfolio management and this is um his home page got it you'll have to bear with us a little bit because this um is a demo instance so some of the data isn't that accurate um and and all that so no no no no problem I mean I'm more interested in the functionality and uh of course demo data is always never great but we do what we can that's right that's right so um if I'm locked in with that DPM manager role I see things that need attention here on the home page the two main use cases are is there something kind of blowing up in my ecosystem or related to things that I own or that I am dependent on um and then also giving quick links into things that they have created for themselves like a personal portfolio if they know something they want to go look at we also again have this Enterprise portfolio so we have a quick link to go look at the Enterprise portfolios here um one quick notice is for the needs attention so here we surface different kinds of Records we can service changes critical incidents outages on its risks these are things that we ship out of the box but this can be edited or added to we use the contextual search framework so this is very flexible um to pull in data that's you know relevant for uh you know your organization's particular needs and and what these owners are responsible for so I wanted to call that out the nice thing is it's actually kind of based on the personal portfolio so in our demo data Jose Hamilton He's listed like directly in the owned by field of services and offerings and then um you know if he's also um registered as an I.T application owner we will pull things automatically based on his being an owner of a service or an offering or business application or even an application service but then if he creates personal portfolios anything that he puts in there we will also surface those um or like any critical issues related to those items because if he's added it to his personal portfolio it likely means that he cares about it and then he wants to know when something's going on got it which is kind of nice because sometimes you have more than one person who's like kind of responsible for that particular solution being delivered or portfolio being delivered right so here you can get to all your stuff and can configure it based on your own personal needs exactly and then this is the first time that you know Jose Hamilton is is logging in so he doesn't have a personal portfolio but one thing that we did create is when he clicks on this module on the left here that says personal portfolios we actually will automatically create a personal portfolio for him um if he if he is listed as an owner of a service or an offering um or a business application so um we pull this together it's kind of a starting point so that the person doesn't start with nothing but if they aren't registered as Like the quote owned by or It app owner Persona they can really easily create their own personal portfolio right so I'd love to kind of walk through that quickly okay so when Jose clicks on that button we open this page he can give it a name um so it could be like my team's portfolio and he can add a description if he wants here he can add editors and viewers so I would like to like kind of call out the fact that editing means editing the portfolio so these fields and what is in the portfolio and this add items step it doesn't mean access to edit the actual records themselves so they just have visibility on stuff not the not changing the stuff itself yeah exactly exactly because because it's around different you know you know what and so we don't overwrite anything this is just related to the portfolio itself and then viewers means the person can look at the portfolio but they can't edit it um and so the nice thing is is if you have a team or if you have multiple people who are contributing to the delivery of this particular portfolio and the services and the apps that are in it you know you can really quickly and pretty easily um you know add folks here in that way right okay and then on the next page this is where you can add what you want to put into the the portfolio and so again like we mentioned you can create a portfolio that includes your services your apps your app services and create again like not just what the you know what you're kind of building out and but also what you're supporting giving that more in a holistic view yeah now is are these portfolios kind of like a folder structure on your hard drive and you can create multiples or a like a a portfolio portfolio so to speak or or how does that work yeah great question you can create as many as you want um and you can always edit them um and they're specific to you so it's not gonna disrupt anyone else's portfolios so you can add this it service management business app to as many portfolios as you want and then someone else can also add that to as many portfolios as they want um it doesn't it it's very flexible in that way okay um so if I do if you know for example if I grab this one and I add it um so I I did add Marshall as someone who's on my portfolio team and then I'm here with my services and offerings I can add I can also search so the nice thing would be like if I search for my name in the owned by here I can see all the stuff that I own one other thing that we did was we we made it so these can this can be personalized so if you want to edit what columns are shown this is nice because then you can also search within the column or you can filter the column if these uh columns aren't satisfactory for what you're looking for right whatever you want to search for yeah yeah exactly I'm trying to find a good example of some services that we could look at so this is these are pretty good from a from a data perspective so I'll add the service in these two offerings again you can see here um that relationship and then let me add these and then we can look um for an application service oh okay no data there yeah this instance isn't updated with that so we do we do include act services but again the demo data might not be perfect on this instance when I go and review the portfolio here then I can see what I've added to it and this is the same flow that someone would use if they want to edit it which is nice um so I can see the details that I added I can see what I've brought in here and then I can go ahead and I can just create that portfolio and it's as simple as that which is nice it's easy it's quick and then you know you can see what you've created and then this is also a place that you could share or again very easy to edit okay so if I'm like a manager of a group I can create the portfolio that the whole group should be able to see and manage share it and now they can see it too exactly exactly and you can see things that need attention so we also brought this from similar feature that we have in the home page got it um and now if we jump in we can actually look at um a particular um solution type so we kind of use the word solution to represent any like Ci type that you would manage within DPM of course um and so for this example with business applications um and for whatever reason we're not seeing our roadmap tile but for business apps you can notice we have our our heading here we have key metadata and then we have the these tabs and these Tabs are consistent and there's actually this whole layout is consistent so the other nice thing that we did was we tried to bring consistency to how we view different types of solutions so services will look very similar to how business applications look and the reason is that we wanted it to make sense of where someone would go to find a certain type of information and to treat these things more consistently versus again having them solved for and visualized and managed in very different ways which is kind of difficult for this user then to have to try to go back and forth between two very different experiences yeah this kind of Harkens on one of the things that we talked about a long time ago around the this whole product centricity and what if services and applications were treated the same way and they were a quote unquote digital product and um yeah this this kind of bridges that Gap where where you're enforcing that consistency so to speak to to consider the like the app team would a lot of times not consider the runtime stuff right or vice versa a service manager doesn't understand or considers what's you know coming next in the next version in the build but we're we're kind of presenting all of that for both sides of the equation right services and apps here exactly exactly that's the that's definitely the idea um and you know it's not perfect but we're no good starting point and we'll continue to kind of mature any ball that yeah and I'm just curious because I I mean from from my history of of being an APM for example I mean I know a lot of customers have both on the platform what do you seeing are you seeing most customers do have both Ops and services and they're they're trying to manage them together like this that's a really good question I think it it varies pretty widely um and the interesting thing is which you you know may have a deeper understanding of even than I do but it seems like there are different sort of teams that are involved in each of the practices so to speak so yeah you kind of have your service delivery teams or your service management teams and and they think about the services that are provided and how they're provided and the processes that are driving that and who's responsible for what and then you also will have you know your your APM side like you know your Enterprise Architects and the people who own the applications themselves and so sometimes I'm talking to one group or the other um where both would benefit right from looking at more holistically and having them brought together so I think those conversations are happening more now um I will say that typically when I talk to folks it's kind of from the service management side of things yeah um and I also I don't know if it's because I sit within the I.T service management you know business unit technically so yeah I'm not sure if that's also how conversations are funneling through yeah I I think it does I mean I tend to talk to both almost all the time it's it's a and it's interesting when you get both the the developers and Enterprise Architects as well as the service folks in the same room uh this really resonates um you know it's like we're not talking about apples in you know oranges anymore we're all talking about fruit you know it's all on the same page you know yes definitely and I do kind of get the one of the initial value adds that we weren't expecting but we've been hearing from people from customers and even from our own um like solutioning folks is that this product is helping to visualize that and tell that story in a way that we had a difficult time doing before like it was there it's not like we built all this brand new functionality like this stuff existed we're bringing the pieces together and we're trying to tell that story yeah we're just showing it all together which which traditionally we haven't done we've been in different product teams different business units you know catering to separate audiences now they're kind of mixed together now they're all like uh all in the same room so to speak exactly and so it's like easier to have that conversation when you can actually point to something and see it versus it having been a little more abstract or you have to try to draw something on a whiteboard to get people aligned you know and I'll talk oh yeah so yeah so this seems to be helping with some of those conversations because I think people really want to get there and a lot of you know folks are of course so it is a spectrum definitely yeah okay all right we'll keep going I didn't want to just detract you but I think that was a good um summary for me at least in on the context so yeah no absolutely very good questions and um yeah so for the plan tab one thing that's not showing up in this instance at the moment is we also have a tile that represents the road map so we have a link into the alignment planner workspace where you can visualize road maps and actually build them out so it's really nice to be able to then see and manage the road maps and have access to it from you know your applications from your services from your offerings we also surface a summary of data related to planning um and then we have this build tab that represents some of the things that are currently in flight now this has been challenging from like a terminology perspective in some ways because bill has such a strong connotation with you know like devops and agile and and seeing commits and and stories and releases all those kinds of things yeah and we are starting to build that out uh actually right now much more with the devops team we just released um a devops basically like data alignment uh within DPM so we surface key devops data for business applications that's part of our most recent release our 3.0 DPM version which is compatible with Tokyo and I should say it's built on Tokyo so if you have San Diego it won't be available yet um but once you get you know to Tokyo then you can access that um and but we're also basically saying anything or the way we're thinking about this is anything that is being worked on that you are actively working towards related to your business application or your service or your offering we're it's almost like a tracking so we're going to show you the status of it we're going to tell you what is actually being worked on and then try to highlight anything that the owner may want to pay attention to you know are there key missed Milestones or are there critical issues I need to focus on that I'm going to dive in and I'm going to learn more so these are all clickable to drill down to the list of those projects and then actually like getting to the project record itself um and then we do pull in you know agile 2.0 data as well so if you're using agile you could see your epics your stories Sprints and releases and then we do also pull in some some change data as well cool so everything that everything the build team is basically doing where can we can Surface against that business application and is that true for services or is that you know there's some maybe some some of that is there or not all of it yeah great great so it's really we just have the projects and we have changes and then we do also have continual improvements so yeah within itsm we have that continual Improvement management which is like a lightweight project management tool um so we do also pull that in I like to say like we're trying to show the art of the possible so it's very likely that you're not using both projects and continual improvements um yeah I used to say you're likely not using projects and epics but I'm kind of walking that back now having talked to folks because a lot of times like bigger initiatives might be managed through a project and there may be ethics or stories or tasks that are done um kind of in the vein of that project so what we wanted to do is we wanted to provide again more that holistic picture into what's being worked on yeah it's a mixed bag out there you know it's teams aren't going to do one or the other they're usually going to do multiple things at the same time and that's where you know the flexibility being able to kind of uh bring it together at least so you can see it all no matter what you're doing uh I think that's the real power here exactly exactly so that's the idea um I will show you what we did introduce to try to make it a little bit easier to like configure this um so if you aren't using projects you can simply hide them and I'll show you how to how we introduce that um but I'll just quickly kind of go through the rest of these so with the Run tab this is where we pull in data related to like the operation side of things the interesting thing is we've gotten a lot of like kind of questions and I wouldn't say pushback necessarily but confusion around why we're surfacing this kind of data against a business application where you know maybe it should be actually against the service and the the long and the short answer is when we talk to customers people are in so many different places you know in terms of how aligned they are with the common Services data model what Journey they're on what they've licensed how they think about um what they provide and how they run those things in those processes and so we didn't want to make it so impossible to actually use our product where you had to work in such a specific way that we wanted to there to be some flexibility so for those customers that we spoke with who are more application oriented um and you know they're looking at their business apps and they have their app Services what we wanted to do is we wanted to surface that key data that they would be tracking at the app service level or even if they're opening it directly against the business app we do still provide that option so we try to make these widgets like kind of as flexible as possible and we're continuing to evolve that right like what our model is yeah yeah I where what I think you know how I see it is that services and applications need to look almost identical eventually and then they will be won eventually because you're now talking about the same thing so whether you're whether it's an app or a service or it doesn't really matter anymore you're just looking at incidents regardless they're right you're looking at deployments regardless yeah and then of course customer experience so or risks right all of the information that you're that are that is around it doesn't it doesn't really matter anymore you're just this is what matters how many incidents are open against the thing whatever it apps service or what or even device if you want to go there but that's the idea yeah exactly exactly so we do like you mentioned like deployments we will be ultimately I think relabeling this to application Services because again introducing you know more of that devops language and deployment means something different so we want to be really clear that the SE are the application services that are related to this business application and um we also have the technology Risk by deployment so this is a key feature within the APM space so we do surface that and you can change the deployment over here to see what the risks are and then of course drill down and view those actual risk records awesome yeah and one thing about those deployments which is interesting is we've struggled with that name app service for a long time you you called it deployments here other people call them app instances you know app stack there's there's a lot of different names for this thing what what we're looking at in csdm is to go to a what we're calling system it's this is the system and all of the underlying things are part of it right which is what the app service is all about and you know from a service mapping point of view but system tends to be a much easier way to communicate what that app service really means yeah no that's a great point that it is confusing to people because it's like a service but it's real you know very closely tied to the business application and so yeah you know it does I think cause some confusion and again for especially this Persona that we expect to use this product they're likely not going to be versed in the csdm you know all the Nitty Gritty terminology and what does this mean they call theirs their stuff you know whatever they call it they might call everything service they may call everything an app or they call everything a product they don't know what table it lives in and so yeah and they shouldn't care they shouldn't care you know totally exactly and and we had a lot of trouble with what do we call stuff how do we make it clear how do we avoid confusion where people are like I don't know what table this lives and I just this is the name of my thing and so um again I don't think we got it perfect but we we tried our best and we'll keep getting feedback and trying to refine it so it does work really well for that that Persona yeah we're bringing it together I mean that's the hard part you know we're we're starting you know it's like if you get married and you start living together for the first time you're you're kind of having to adjust to your partner you know so that's that's how I like to think about it true um absolutely before we're pulling in the governance risk and compliance again this is this is through that that linkage with APM and ngrc um and then the last tab is this info tab which we pull in key data from the record um you can see we would link any like business capabilities we'll show you what personal portfolios it's in we have the contract um business unit strategy goals and then that important information object record list we also have this um view relationships which is pretty cool so I I want to show that but I guess before I do I could cover the rest of it so similarly we have the needs attention which works the same as it does throughout the rest of the product but it's specific to this business app yeah we have contacts so we can Surface like who owns it or who's the team that supports that are related to working on it anybody that that you know could be a good point of contact for this particular entity right and then we have these create options so in this case you know you might want to create a demand the idea here is like continue Improvement right so we do want to surface more action and we want to drive more action from DPM um we started more with visualizing data and as we mature this we want to learn more of like what is the right level of action to take versus in another product you know where we can have like strategic linkages into other places to take those key actions and so this is kind of a work in progress but one thing we started with was being able to create a demand So based on anything you see risk related run data related or even processes around build maybe you want to create a demand to improve any aspect of that so it's really trying to get back into that continual Improvement Loop right makes perfect sense and then if we jump into relationships really quick so this is intended to show really like that csdm view um again we're a little bit limited with how much we can show and how we can visualize it um just with how this component Works frankly so not to bore everybody with all the little details but um you know you have to kind of map from top to bottom or from side to side and so the approach that we've taken is showing like up up and down relationships so we would also show the business capability um of course and then if the business app is related to another business app you know from a you know kind of parent child or dependency relationship we would show that and then we show the application Services yeah and then one of the big things of course everybody wants to know like how what is this business app related to from a service point point of view so yeah a lot of customers want to see like I want to see the service on this View we couldn't figure out how to do that technically so what we did do is we said okay we will um allow customers to be able to like kind of redraw this map to from different nodes so for this app service what we can do is we can redraw this relationship map to from that app service and unfortunately this is not showing or this isn't built out yeah no data there yeah you could see the offering too okay yes so we do try to show that because this really is like a linchpin in the csdn model yeah as you know the the csdm kind of maps it all out so if you did have a full data set you can TR you know uh travel or Traverse around it and see things from any point of view right so that's the idea exactly exactly um and then if I pop back really quick I'm just going to show a service offering for example just so you can get a sense of that we're maintaining that consistency um with the layout view relationships we have this um again the create buttons the main difference I would say is kind of on this run Tab and one of the one of the reasons for those differences is related to the um like the slas that are associated with services and you know so what those commitments are and then also we have this feature called kpi groups and for whatever reason my instance is being very slow um but I can show you different metrics how we can Surface again kind of related to that Service delivery side of things um and it's something we are wanting to introduce to the business application so the option to create more flexible reporting so that's when it's coming um but here for example we can see you know different kpis different metrics different types of again service related data for your offerings um and then we do application service dependencies so trying to bring that visibility so we can Traverse to the business app um yeah and then here we also show availability commitments and service level agreement commitments and and Reporting on that um cool so I do apologize just the data isn't that great no no that's fine yeah I think I think I get the gist here in the fact that you're bringing all the data related because if you're doing change management you know or uh tracking incidents you're able to see all that and the metrics over time how you're performing against your commitments and you know whatever those slas Olas happen to be exactly yes and we do have this other module that I mentioned Enterprise portfolios and so here's where we get into the service portfolio now I mentioned this actually in our service Builder conversation where we're starting with um service portfolios um the main reason is that we do have this kind of you know hierarchy of reporting that's flexible uh based on however customers organize there or think about how they organize their services so we are going to introduce this for business applications as well and then I think eventually even app services and when you know when we're moving into that more digital product space having that open up for digital products as well and so the idea would be you know you can use this to create very flexible portfolios of whatever you want eventually and then you know this is a service and it kind of rolls up and so you can get this reporting at each level and really the difference between the Enterprise and the personal portfolios is Enterprise portfolios are like this is how our organization thinks and delivers something like this is these are all the services that we deliver or these are all the I.T Services we deliver and it's a shared understanding of what is delivered and how it's delivered whereas a personal portfolio is more of like here are all the things that I own and I care about and I want to see and manage together yeah yeah and one of the things I've been talking to people about is really how do I structure those Enterprise portfolios to account for all business applications and all services regardless of how they're consumed but have a way of structuring them so I understand sort of the you know let's say the the stuff used by employees which is different than the stuff that's used by customers or the stuff that's used by my manufacturing teams right there's there's different um I would say Investments and outcomes and when you're dealing with you know kpis coming from your uh from your product portfolio that you sell that's a big that's a very different thing than what it means for bad kpis coming from employees or even your manufacturing so absolutely yeah so yeah the idea is to have that more flexible um approach with the taxonomy structure that we do have yeah but it is a much more I would say uh like official it's a standard official portfolio structure that everybody now so for like inter like executive reporting this would be used in that kind of activity exactly yeah yeah well and that's why I think you know it brings that service world and application world together nicely here because I think the struggle was you know like an app TCO versus service experience metrics you know there's there was no way to bring those kind of things together in one way but here we can do that we can we can kind of talk about the same thing in the same portfolio yeah so we um we're you know again this is just Services now but that's the vision of course um and you know we are actively working towards that so hopefully we'll have um some good news to share you know soon I'm not gonna promise anything but no that's cool I mean it is it is kind of converging at that official portfolio kind of level and I've talked to the PPM folks before and there is an app portfolio too um and it and so you know we've got lots of ways of structuring or managing the stuff that we're talking about but not one that's used you know quote unquote enterprise-wide you know yes yes yeah yeah and and you know with the with the flexibility to say I want to organize this like you know what you were talking about by consumers or by organizational structure or buy a particular outcome or teams you know there's all these different ways that you can do that and so this would be a way to do that where you can really create any type of a structure that you want yeah yeah and then our last our last module is the like lists it's just another way to access the same information that's kind of throughout the the product you can create your own list of course and um again just kind of find things that way too so so this is just sort of the the higher level um approach with with DPM and and the different things that you can do and view with it um and then I'm hoping what we could do is talk about because this is a question I get all the time and this is where I would love to get your expertise and and sharing is like where do where do I start and I always say you know if you are aligned with the csdm um even partially like not everything but if you have some alignment or if you understand the csdm and you're on some sort of a journey then you will get quicker value yeah yeah yeah so I can share a few things on where you start and also maybe talk about um so I'm going to take over the sharing is that fine yes all right and I'm going to also talk about those portfolios for a minute too because I get a lot of customers that ask for advice right how do I structure those Enterprise portfolios exactly and you know just tell me how to do it and I'll just follow your advice um well and that's how csvm came about right I mean people weren't were stuck trying to figure it out on their own they just wanted somebody to tell them what to do um so here we go that's this is csdm and and really what it comes down to is when we're talking about what you just showed you're bringing the business application together in DPM the business service together and offering right so that's kind of together uh the technical services any of these and then in the offerings so all of these are sort of included and then the app service so you're all the major components that connect the worlds together are there foreign so so this this is sort of the core to everything and under of course underneath you have uh CIS which is the cmdb and and you know I would say the physical world is down here but what you're doing is sort of tackling this logical world that surrounds the physical world this this represents computers running in a data center uh and code running on those computers uh or in a cloud data center right this is really at that physical tier the the trick has always been you know how do I manage or see it from different perspectives so uh but yeah we're solving for that here and I would also like to say we do include the dynamic CI group so we kind of bucket that under the application service when we talk when we talk about what we we surface but we do we do have that included as like a type of app service um yeah yeah that's awesome because you know these infrastructure guys are managing infrastructure in what I call a fleet right it's just an inventory of stuff they don't even know exactly how it's going to be used day to day you know the context is really that app service because what the server I allocated to a team today is going to use be used for one thing but they can you know reallocate it and do something different with it and it's now a different business consumer and different app service um so so that accommodates their needs really nicely so that's great and and how we get there at least from a csdn point of view is when we're talking about this model we actually start with you know this stuff down here when you're bringing data in from a from a cndb or you want to know the location of a business consumer or who's subscribing uh from a location or user perspective we have to get this Foundation data right and we have something called that crawl walk run fly methodology um and this this isn't cast in stone but this is sort of where where customers get that breakdown so start with that foundational data on the bottom like the locations are right so as you're starting to populate other information and referencing this information in here uh it's right it can be referenced right if you don't have locations you can't reference it um the next stage is crawl where we all the reason I that I like this approach is because it connects the development World early on um and this is very conceptual right what developers and teams are working on to The Logical world of what what deployments do they have you know it goes back into your deployment conversation or system or app service whatever we want to call this uh right now app Services is where what we're officially calling this and then down here the the physical world where where you can inventory what's in a data center so it it starts to connect your Architects your app portfolio to a service type you know and then underlying infrastructure but you could certainly start with other areas if you have a more mature service portfolio you can kind of connect the dots from that point of view as as well uh earlier on yeah exactly and what we're seeing a lot of is is folks kind of working on the walk and crawls yeah good degree so it's to kind of again depending on what the customer is using and what they already have or where they already have data um we are seeing quite a bit of work around the app services and building out those Technical Services and offerings uh yeah and having those be surfaced and viewed in DPM you know it's a good starting point and they don't have anything else like they may not have their business apps yet or they may not have their you know business services and offerings and that's completely fine and acceptable um in how to get started yeah well and I I find that a lot of folks are trying to you know uh kind of like it's a game right they want to make sure they cover everything in CSM and I tell them well don't cover something if um if you're not using it right if if you don't have Enterprise Architects looking at that portfolio don't try to Define them because you have nobody to own and Define and manage them right you're sort of outside on a limb there you're just going to create data with no real owner or use case using this data uh same thing here Technical Services or Business Service a lot I know a lot of customers are trying to sort out business versus technical still right right what's the difference yeah well you know we've defined now some guidance technology consumer versus business but those are those are all kind of considerations in in what you need to focus on first second third uh this is just a standard way we've broken it down that people can start with and then uh adjust based on where your maturity he happens to be yeah and I would say like even within that like I love that point of if it if you're not using something or if you don't have the processes or the people in place to manage something don't build it because it really sit there and become fail and it'll be a waste of time but also like you don't have to Define every Business Service you may just want to Define your top five business critical business services and then that's it and you could build out the relationships to that particular service and offering and that's also fine you know you don't have to say okay we're gonna do our business services and we're going to do everything because that can be so overwhelming well and you know one of the things the critical things is to understand who those service owners are and coming back to this picture a lot of times the service portfolio was created by a service management team so this was reflected of the cues of of work that they happen to have to serve but where is the service owner in the picture they never really have established an ownership process right where people come in and they own they manage those things a huge thing that DPM provides is sort of the the place where they live right they can see the stuff that they own they can see how it relates to other things uh how it's being consumed in a catalog and all the metrics so so now they they have a place to go to to do their work and to manage what it is they own so exactly and and then because a lot of times uh either a service owner isn't identified or they are but a lot of a lot of customers will say to me we have them they just don't know the extent of their role like we have this expectation but we haven't really brought them in on it yet well that's exactly it well that's exactly it I mean you know what I what I find a lot of times is these Services might be defined but it's completely disconnected from anything running in a Data Center and therefore how do you know what's really going on you know you can get a ticket here but then you're back in war rooms with you know 50 people in there trying to figure out what's really going on when the service is down and you know if you don't have this level of detail you're you're still troubleshooting things in the air on a phone call um so so this you know what I like about this model is that we can automate more and more because it's it is connected so one of the things I talk about is if a server fails look at all of the service application services that it that uses it and then all of the business services offerings and all of the users impacted you can be very precise in that communication and understanding who's impacted but if you don't have that connection forget it you're just you're just got a cue of people of tickets in there and you're just gonna have to figure it out one by one what's really going on exactly and and then you know within on the DPM side is we're trying to visualize that relationship so we're kind of trying to bring this model to life and and make it accessible to that service owner who isn't using servicenow today and they're not that's right comfortable with the servicenow platform as it really works well and the funny thing is we don't usually have to get too many owners involved here the app portfolio you usually you know there's not so many owners service owners you know we kind of we're increasing the ownership as we go here and getting further into the business is really how how this is you know get getting the it act in order right from from the investment and creation of an app to uh you know what it what is it comprised of to the technical teams right how are the technology teams and what are their services who owns the platform because that's they're not talking to the business directly they own the platform or the technology that underpins it like the network services and then eventually this becomes a lot more you know robust with having a business partner on the line and having this correctly identified exactly it's part of cspn we cover fly and this is like I like to think about this as icing on the cake um everything else before it is meeting is the meaty stuff but things like business capability uh information objects these are more details that aren't necessarily um needed early on but you can certainly bring them in earlier on a lot of folks when they establish their business application portfolio they'll have business capabilities and they'll do it back during crawl nothing wrong with that nothing wrong with missing mixing and matching these you can start with uh run first if you have a pretty well defined business service this is just guidance that tends to work with most of our customers which is why we kind of provide them here yeah and I'll add that I A lot of times too when I'm talking to customers they'll they'll actually sometimes you have a catalog with all their catalog items pretty well defined yeah and they can use that to almost back into what services they're providing you know what do people request from them what help do they provide and then using that to inform some of the technical service and Business Service definition and you know what those offerings are and then linking the catalog items to those offerings to get the visibility of you know where those requests are coming from and going to and how's that service being provided ultimately yeah absolutely and I would definitely recommend bringing that into Focus I think I so I deal mostly with Legacy customers that are just trying to sort this out and maybe never even establish the catalog for self-service to all like help desk not over the phone and they don't really expose the user interface for internet management to the users at all right so it really depends on the customer and what they do or don't do absolutely and what would your recommendation be because sometimes when I am talking to customers about you know how to get started with DPM um or even like service portfolio management it can be very overwhelming especially if you're a larger organization and you may have a lot of Legacy records in your system and so doing the cleanup and getting aligned can be quite daunting especially when you're trying to provide services and then change how those services are provided or what's being provided and keeping the service desk informed and so like when we when I talk to customers one of my recommendations is to start you know small in a certain area so if you feel pretty comfortable about what Technical Services are being provided or even what what your top you know five or ten business services are because typically those are fairly well known and well defined because they are so business critical like would you say it's fair where hey start with defining those five or ten like get those pretty well built out you know creating those relationships um and it that's a great starting point and you can go you know actually even just have that as a pilot or a POC or or in production and then slowly build that out is that a valid approach yeah as a matter of fact you're dealing with different teams in each of these phases and you know sometimes it can be overwhelming so you want to start with one team than the next but a lot of these can be done in parallel and I'll give you an example in the in the sprawl stage you're dealing with Discovery here so there's one team that deals with discovery right so at a very light level up here you're dealing with EAS portfolio managers that sort of thing um so these are all different teams that can do this work you know in in parallel with service owners Technical Services owners have tend to be your engineering teams that that manage and provide things like Network Services or compute Services database services so all of those underlying Technologies right that underpin everything and so a lot of times they're not even in the platform they they don't really set these Services up but it's getting those service owners uh service managers or or whatnot right in there so that they know what they own and how it connects down into the underlying discovered piece parts and then simultaneously you can get the business services these these you know remember these are the engineering teams over here but these are be a business relationship managers or folks that are facing you know the business different business units that are defining these business services and and owning those it's a different set of owners here the service owners here are going to be kind of more higher level not the technology teams but more or less how are those Technologies used to do HR or to deliver product or to do sales so those delivery teams are more higher level and usually there to report on what what's going on from that service uh from the underlying piece Parts basically so there's a coordination between them but you can certainly do them in parallel that's a really good point and I think that that you know when we did our we did our session right on the service Builder and one of the main goals with that was to to allow or kind of put the power of defining those things in service now in the hands of the people who own those services so like instead yeah you could have those owners who are working on those definitions and getting that sort of registered if you will in servicenow and then if you have more of this these technical teams creating the service maps and getting the underpinning technology defined and related to each other the application service is that linchpin and then you can connect it you know ultimately when those things are built out do the technical service offerings and to the business service offerings and really start to see the map come together but you certainly don't have to do that all like you said completely for um you know one one stage than the next stage then the next stage you know this can be something that you're building out and using at the same time um and and it's and it's perfectly acceptable like I say that with DPM all the time yeah there's so much with it you know there's so many there's the the full life cycles of business apps Services offerings and application services and you don't need to do everything at once or even ever ideally right be able to use it that's right that's right um the key thing here is to break it down based on your needs your situation and create sort of a road map like this where you're doing one thing then the next and the next you're not trying to boil the ocean uh it really depends on the capacity of the team the engagement from those owners the engagement from EAS or you know even if you own Discovery or yeah icon visibility if that's sort of on the on the table early on but we try to we do try to push the details there because a lot of times people will Define these business services but they don't connect at all to to what's underlying and as a result you know if you've got event management you're you're able to propagate those event metrics all the way up so you can report on things more automatically but if you don't have those under line details you just can't do it it's just not it's not an automatic process at all it's all just what you what you process through the you know calls with those users right right so like the more you do the more you can Define the more you connect the more visibility you get Yeah the more value you get um but even just starting at a small place and getting some of these things to find is like that incremental value that's right the and the biggest challenge I would say in starting small especially with an existing customer with already existing sort of uh let's say they have business services defined in no technical service but some of them are Business technical services so they should be migrated so a lot of customers are sort of in a mixed bag you know they they have stuff defined in the wrong way or different way than csdn prescribes and so the only I would say challenge for those customers is if they make those changes and they start moving things around they'll have to think about how intended management works or how change management works because now the services may or may not be the same and they'll have to be changed as well those products have to be tweaked that's right exactly the processes and that I think is one of the biggest hurdles with customers getting up and running with DPM is the reality that um yes you need to Define these entities and you need to connect them to each other to be able to get that broader visibility and really understand you know what what you're providing and how you're providing it yeah but then if you don't have your Incident Management process for example aligned in such a way that you're referencing the service offering in the service yes you can't see that in DPM that's right and one of the things that a lot of folks don't even know is that there are properties uh in the internet management that you have to tweak in order to turn that on um we cover that in the csdm lab but most folks aren't even aware until they take the lab or they look a little deeper in the internet managers to know where to go yeah so let's let's show that off here real quick okay so um this is my personal instant here and what you got to do to enable those Advanced incident properties is come over here go to and there's incident properties under Administration so I think uh I think it's right here is where I want to go but if I go to incident properties you've got all of these uh attributes and if I scroll down to the bottom of this attribute list you'll see I enabled mine but the infinite related properties list here so you've got things like popularly impacted Services based on effective Ci's this basically leverages the application Services okay so that's the path to get from this the service to the CIS and back again so without this you can't analyze all the all the services from HCI that might be the source of the of the incident and see all the potential services that could be impacted because one network device can affect you know a dozen services for example through these app services yeah so really quick just to say that back to you to make sure that I'm understanding correctly when you you it like in the configuration item field on the incident form if you list an application service in that field yeah um and this property is enabled then in the impacted Services related list this property will basically automatically populate that list with Services related to that application service yeah yeah and let me show you on on the diagram real quick what that's doing so coming back to csdm real quick uh so let me go full screen so what what that's doing is if the incident form has the CI selected down here okay so this is the CI on the form this is the lowest level detail that you can get to what it does is that when you analyze impacted Services there that CI might be part of many application services and then that might be in Turn part of many uh offerings and services within the service management space right so so there could be 12 of these maybe these four of these um so you know it kind of splays out really quickly that one to many sort of situation and you're able to identify all the services impacted by one CI failure why that's really cool is because each of these Services here might have both different locations or different users or different uh business units that are subscribers and so you can get the full inventory of of the impact by by leveraging csdm in this way and that's the feature to turn it on which if you go to an incident form which I'll do that real quick so this is the incident property to turn on let's just pull up in a in a another view here hold on a minute duplicate let's let's actually look at incidents and let's look at all of them all right so I think we can just go to all here and just bring one up I'm just basically bringing up something from our demo data so if if I choose a configuration item in this case OS G Series whatever that is right this happens to be the instrument down here the impacted Services CIS would be populated when you run the um the impact analysis process now to do that I think he I think we've already done this I don't I think this might be uh yeah I'm not sure where to where to refresh that maybe that's not the right form geez refresh repack the services so this rep refresh pin pack that services will do the analysis through that csdm model to identify every single service impacted by that to that that CI because that's been the lowest level thing to identified and there may be many impacted services that get populated in this list when you refresh that impacted services that does the analysis for you I don't think my data is set up to show that but let's say those 12 are are related they would all be listed here that's so cool and then would that also work if someone say opened it against the application service directly in the CI field it would still run that it's just it doesn't have to look at the app Services first that's right and that's one of the things that I recommend customers do is that for the configuration item they don't allow the offering or service to be pulled in here um this is something a lot of folks don't go through the effort of maybe tweaking the configuration here and what we call primary CIS or I think it's primary CIS I'll have to go back and look but there's there's a suggested way of looking at only certain Ci's when you go to to choose the configuration item you don't want to choose the eyes that are outside the the you know Hardware software and then um application services at below us at the lowest level oh yeah so that's kind of I don't have it all set up here but that's kind of how that would work got it and then and then the offering and service so you might come in at the service level restrict the number of offerings that you choose from and then the number of Ci's underneath those offerings and vice versa if you choose the configuration find the item first the number of offerings and services are related to that configuration item can be restricted based on this dsdm model and that's that's what the csdm lab takes customers through how to how to do that how to make that work in that way but more and more of these csdm capabilities are being built into the product which is on that properties tab that we were reviewing here and one additional thing that's really cool is we have expanded our reporting model in DPM yes we were getting a lot of feedback that when you right now or I should say before our 3.0 release yeah in DPM we would show the incidents related to a service offering when the service offering was directly listed on the incident form in that field that we were just showing what we've done what we've done however is we've expanded that reporting model to show the incident on a service offering when that offering is listed in the impacted services or even the affected CIS related lists guys why we did that was customers were saying oftentimes it's not just one you know not just one offering or one service that's being impacted um or you know or needs to to address the issue and so what we've done is is we've made that enhancement and we've shipped that in our 3.1 and so with the property enabled um you just get a much richer experience through your incident process and in DPM yeah yeah and and really if this is a user calling in they're going to have a specific service that they're experiencing problems on but obviously if the if the root cause is a CI that impacts many you're going to have to account for that and that's you know that's where this stuff has to be blanked out because it's not only one right and that's where this kind of comes in where you have multiples listed yeah exactly and then the other thing I wanted to show you on the internet properties Forum that I've got configured here is populate the business applications related list for incidents so the same sort of thing happens uh up through a different path uh where the business application list can be added to that form as well and then so if let's say there is a server again you have let's say multiple app services that the server is used in and then multiple business applications what we can do is list all of the business applications using this path as well remember this is optional you don't really need to use this but this direct path exists in the system and APM uses this pretty heavily and uh by using that this property here populate the business application related list and enabling that related list on the form which isn't there by default this would be populated as well yeah that's great because we do surface the incident count for business applications in DPM as well and so then you kind of see what things are impacting that particular business app yeah and that gets populated at the same time when you do refresh um impacted Services if this is enabled it will also impact you know show you the apps there as well it'll just run that extra step got it yeah so again another little Hidden Gem there that follows cstm an incident that nobody knows about uh yeah and this is the last one I think you mentioned this as they populate the service offering related list for incidents too so again if you're using the offering this starts to bring that into play on the form and how it's used for incidents and it's critical because that's where slaoli commitments and all that are stored also subscribers what I'm really looking for is where can if enough customers get to the point where they're using all this then we can really leverage subscribers on this and even list out or message every person you know that that is involved in any any service offering that's defined in the system when no matter what the instance scope is exactly exactly and then you can help to to deflect new incidents coming in you know for the same issues because you've already been able to inform everyone who is being impacted that's right what I hate the most in large organizations is getting spammed about something being down that I don't use or care about right it's it's okay that's interesting but I'm not a user of that system why am I getting that email right exactly yeah well and that kind of leads us to some of the product-centric thinking we need to have in defining services and applications at the same time but we'll we'll cover that in a separate session can you show um the foundations dashboard because this I feel is such a critical and helpful tool um for of course the csdm but also really for customers who are interested in using DPM like one of the I mean of course where do I get started how do I use DPM why is this information not showing up or why is this blank a lot of times you know it's because the data isn't in the right place or isn't connected in the right way and yeah that the foundations dashboards do is I think really help to give visibility into what is missing yeah we just posted a video on these but we'll I'll take you through these in a very brief manner just to kind of explain these are available in the store you can just go to the store search for data foundations you'll find them and they're free there's no cost to this at all these are very prescriptive in nature which is the our we Define the metrics and the in the logic to generate those metrics and we apply them to every instance in the same way um the out-of-the-box health dashboards on the other hand are very highly tailored and highly customizable also there is no consistency but these are are really something we ship and we don't allow customers the changes at this point and there's two of them there's two portions of the dashboard there's the cmdb portion and the csdm portion so let's take a quick look at seem to be first because that's sort of the the basics uh you know a belt strap and you know suspenders that sort of thing where anybody that has CIS you should be looking at this cmdb portion because this tells you where the basics aren't being taken care of and what you see here is a a series of tabs where we group those metrics and the prioritization of each of those metrics and what the metric is here and there's a remediation Playbook on how to fix these things some suggestions on root causes and where to go to fix things and so this is just basic hygiene on the data the quality itself there's really not much to do with other you know csdm and in this section all together uh we also look at customizations because if you're highly customized you won't be able to uh leverage more a lot of the out-of-the-box stuff that we provide most customers are trying to get more out of the box so to speak so these are uh and some analysis on various things so we can detect on customization levels uh data management practices are are here uh whether the folks are bringing in data through the ire which deals with reconciling with existing records that helps to to deal with duplicates and if they are duplicates are you handling them so these are all just basic hygiene stuff that you know should exist no matter what whether you're using cstm or not um and the last one is kind of interesting we're getting we're starting to organize the metrics per business unit and product set so in this case going back to the what we just looked at do we have changes in incidents referencing CIS and if we don't this will show up in the metrics this means that you're if you've got processes that don't really connect down into the CI level data right for Incident Management that this will show up for metric but if you do of course you get a hundred percent yeah and I think this is really telling as well very similar to what we were talking about where insulins relating to both SCI and a service where you are like we you and I have spoken about this before but best practice being it's really important to say which service is is being affected or impacted and have that documented but if you can get as granular as possible on where that is occurring then like you said you can also get the broader or bigger assessment of impact that's right yeah yeah and that's what this comes down to are you actually doing both of course it's lower here because you may not be doing both in in some cases so yeah this this is uh as we work to evolve our prescribe prescribed way of doing things and everybody's using CM csdm these will improve and and this I think we call this uh this is a little different this predates psdm to be honest this is a what do we call it uh service it's the operational connected service management or something like that I can't remember how we used to call that do you remember I don't I do not yeah yeah but but basically this connects the service management practice to the CEO uh cmdb you know configuration management practice uh so the other portion of the dashboard is csdm and when we come in here we show the same kind of metrics right same structures where we prioritize them but we we align this with the crawl walk run fly implementation methodology and here you'll see metrics based on the foundation data itself you have product models do you have location hierarchy set up um and then so you got to get this stuff done first not every possible thing is in here just the stuff what we find is more critical and easy to capture metrics on some stuff it's really hard to get metrics on so or it's expensive to run the process to generate the metrics but you know we do what we can and then as you walk up to crawl walk run fly here in crawl this is where we connect the things like business applications to app Services um app services are using the right relationship so as we have experience with customers that may or may not have followed csdm these are the metrics that'll help them align use the right relationship types and we expect to see them if they've got applications they need to be connected to that services and vice versa yeah and a really good first step might be like when you're assessing DPM and where to get started and how you might want to use it I would recommend coming here uh and like you said it's free it'll be you know reflecting the status of your current instance you can look to see you know where you are actually having that good data like is it crawl is it walk is it run is it Fly where are the relationships or where do they not exist and then you know potentially start with what you do have um and then continue to build this stuff out and then the cool thing is the more aligned you are with the csdm obviously the more value you get but also the more you can see in DPM and then DPM kind of becomes a window into your journey with cleaning up your cmdb and aligning to that that prescribed best practice data model that's right and this is a good example this metric right here app service is missing a business out relationship so if you're using DPS them they look at app Business application data in this case you've got a whole bunch of app services that have no connection so so those metrics aren't popping up right in DPM because you're expecting this relate to be related in and that data will use that relationship exactly and then if you know which ones are so if you do have a couple of business apps you can focus on getting those set up and getting the data right for those particular apps because likely they're you know more critical since you've done the work to make those connections and you can start managing those in DPM and getting value there and then again as you continue to make the relationships you see more and more and more you know built out and more owners and teams can can come into DPM and use it and manage and view their their Solutions you know through that end-to-end lifecycle that's right that's right and and what we're looking at here again is just the this relationship between the business app going this way and then the the vice versa check is you know you got app services that may not be connected at all that's our major issue that we're identifying here so lots of app services but what are they deployments of I don't know so um and then of course as we go up to to walk this is really leveraging the technical service aspects so if if you you know look at the technical services are you do you have the offerings with support groups and change groups established you have uh offerings referencing Technical Services are using Dynamic CI groups Dynamics TI groups was added because of the the the dynamic nature of CIS in an automated process where people are you know deploying and decommissioning resources like virtual servers for example automatically so this Dynamic CI group is really an important aspect of defining what those services are when you're um when you're deploying and defining you know getting get in getting them connected down into the CI level detail and we do surface the dynamic CI group in DPM um and so a few customers that I've spoken with recently they are starting with their Technical Services the technical service offerings and then the relationships to those app services and dynamic CI groups but you know their entry into DPM so it's cool to see yeah yeah and we've been sort of slow with adding a lot more metrics here again too because not everybody is using csvm or separated out using technical versus Business Services but as we go we'll continue to add more you know checks and balances to this dashboard exactly and like to call out you know we spoke about this and on our service Builder conversation but these these queries are looking at those dedicated tables correct so it's yeah it's actually looking to see that you're populating your services in the dedicated technical service and dedicated Business Service tables yes um and so that is a we do in DPM we do surface services in any of the the tables so the cmdbci service like that core base table Yeah plus the new service tables um but we really do recommend getting into those dedicated tables because I think the experience is better and it's a good opportunity to really clean up what services you have in those tables and the level of detail that you're providing you know that's a good point that's probably something we can add to this dashboard as well because we can easily count how many services are in the base table uh you know so we have this right here we've got uh we're pretty much what this metric means is that we're okay we don't have any services in the page table they're all in their dedicated tables right in this instance but many of our customers that is not the case they've used the base table from day one and they have never really moved into the dedicated tables yes and it's hard it's hard to clean up you know a table that you've had around for forever so the really nice thing I think about those dedicated tables is it's a way to get a fresh start and only put services in those tables that are that are still being used that have the right information that aren't duplicates or obsolete anymore like it's a really good um it's a really good opportunity to really clean house in that area absolutely yeah so this this will provide sort of the guide the guidance on how to fix this um you know one of the things we try to do is keep these remediation playbooks these are knowledge articles up to date with the latest tools available and what to do about these findings right if this was really bad I'd go to the Playbook and it'll tell you hey you know what you know you're not using service Builder we recommend using this this puts the data in the right tables right this this is kind of what the playbook's all about yeah I love that you do have the Playbook because not only do you see the score but it's like okay well what do I what do I do about that now I think that's really cool that that you have the playbooks yeah and then you know you go to run you're dealing with a different set of um service types there for why is this not refreshing that's weird that's good let's go back to run I think that's what I was showing anyway was it yeah that was showing run oh yeah it was but it was highlighting walk which is really weird something bizarre yeah so I was really confused um and then fly is when you get into fly and then there's a lot of folks don't have maturity in this area but this is uh era you know what we expect to do there again we'll keep adding more metrics but we as as customers tend to to get to these levels of maturity it's a really good starting point well maybe we just wrap up with my instance our DPM just to kind of bring it all back home yeah and it's like I do have a personal portfolio defined so I can just click on that get to it right yeah so so yeah DPM gets lit up more and more as you define that data model that underpins it and uh of course metrics will roll up all the other products that you use around in these different phases plan Builds on risk now for GRC all that will get lit or lit up as a result of connecting the dots of the underlying data model that csdm prescribes that's right and the other thing I wanted to call out is is similar to how you can ease into the csdm approach and I have touched on this with getting started with DPM where you don't have to do all of your services or all of your business applications or all of your application services at the same time you can like slowly roll out different um types or even segments of types you know based on what's well defined already the other thing though is is you don't have to start with every single tab so the other thing that we do and I'll speak to this very quickly so we can wrap it up um is you can actually hide the plan build run and risk tabs um with a system property so we have pages that we've created within DPM it's in our admin section and we have system property pages per type um okay so yeah within the digital portfolio management um product section in in the platform if you scroll all the way down under Administration we have multiple system property Pages uh if we go to the business application property page here you'll see we have different types of properties that you can turn on and off and you can turn them on and off as many times as you want which is great because it allows you to start with the particular phase of the life cycle or particular types of content and then you can add them back in later if you want okay so there's no you know restrictions here but ultimately and I'll just click here so we can edit it but ultimately we have life cycle configuration so this will hide a specific tabs so I'll just show for example we can hide the plan Tab and then in the content configurations this is basically sections on the tabs so here you can see hide summary which is on the plan tab but let me hide something on the build tab so let's see I'll hide projects on the build tem and so if I go up and I if I save this um page now and I go into my workspace and I go to a business application the plan tab will be hidden so you can see now I just have build run risk and then on the build tab you'll notice I I hid the projects section so that's no longer showing up between the roadmap and the epics interesting interesting you know what would be really cool about this just you know or just kind of expressing my thoughts behind us is is like when you're a new customer and all these other products exist within the platform right we we have PPM but people may not even know about it or realize it right it's uh this this this initial setup it almost like educates our customers on you know everything full blast on you've got these things out there you can record epics oh I didn't know that well yes go over to this product team and buy that product right or bring that data in from your existing sources so that's really cool definitely yes it's sort of this is the art of the possible here are all the different things that you can track and manage and by the way this is not complete right we could do way more than what we're doing now and we'll continue to add to it but it is a good it is a good visual of what you can do and then you know like I said you can start small so a lot of customers that I've talked to they're starting with their Technical Services and offerings and just run so they're just looking at run data and they've hidden the plan and build tabs and then their plan is to turn those tabs back on once they get the data aligned or once they start to actually use those products so it is meant to be used in part um and then ultimately in full you know if if customers can get there and have that desire yeah very cool I like it awesome all right uh well thanks I think this has been a pretty uh comprehensive session to discuss cstm and digital portfolio management I think this will help out customers better have an understanding of how DPM fits and uses csdm and some of the other things like our methodology our dashboards how to set up some things like Incident Management to take to leverage it more but I this this has been a a really nice session I think to cover a lot of basis so absolutely and then we can dig into other areas in more depth later as well so thank you so much so so much for the opportunity to mark this is great sure thing and uh definitely we'll be revisiting this especially as we continue to grow our dashboards or csdm you know next versions or yeah DPM you're coming out with changes every quarter right so I just updated my instance by the way so get the latest I didn't I've been I've been using version two on my demo so yeah you guys are moving pretty quick yeah that's the idea we're trying to iterate quickly it's not perfect we know it's not perfect and we'll we'll continue to try to make it better and better each time excellent I love that's one of the things I love about servicenow but boy it's a it's like we're always I've always got three releases I got to be concerned about the one we just released the one we're working on now and then the one after that we're planning so there's always three in mind exactly there's no time or no rest for the weary right no not at all but it's fun it makes things interesting and it's really exciting to be here for this it sure does cool all right thank you