good morning good afternoon thank you all for joining us today we have an incredible event planned for you with some very special guests so let's get started today's event is all about servicenow's rise up our Global program to fuel on a new economy of in-demand job-ready Talent with an emphasis on faster more Equitable career paths in the high growth servicenow ecosystem so before we bring on our special guest we have a couple of things to keep in mind for today's event you'll notice the Q a button at the bottom of your Zoom screen today if you have any questions for our panelists or questions about rise up please do use that q a button and you'll also notice some links in the chat during today's event so keep an eye out for that and then after the event is over you will be prompted to fill out a short survey it should pop up right in your browser we thank you in advance for your feedback and so without further Ado let's bring out our special guests Jean and Ken are you there I am good morning everyone hi good morning good morning we are so excited to have the both of you with us today um I think it would be best if you introduce yourselves um Gene you want to kick us off and tell us a little about yourself absolutely good morning everyone Gene Manuel I am a Solutions consultant with Accenture servicenow business group I am based out of Houston Texas and focused mostly on offerings and delivery on the servicenow platform for all of our Accenture customers and I'm Ken Sheridan I'm a software engineer at servicenow I work in a hardware engineering department where we we make all the infrastructure that allows the servicenow platform to run on our own cloud Hardware so that's what I do awesome and Gene Ken where are you based out of where are you logging in from today I'm again out of Houston Texas and I'm cheering for USA Team USA for the World Cup I'm in Sunny Kirkland Washington surprised to hear this honey bit there we've got some West Coast representation I am logging in um from New York city so we've also got the East Coast here today and for those of you in the chat have also let us know what you're logging in from thank you so um Gene I'll start off with you um tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are today as a Solutions architect so I uh I've been in this business for a while I I've been in the I.T service management space for uh over 20 years I actually started off as as a help desk guy I picked up the phones I reset passwords I did laptop repairs and I was using a tool that was frustrating at times because uh while it was it was early in the infancy of help desk and ITIL um so there were things and bugs that they were still working out but just the little things like Fields were out of alignment or some of the processes were a little um wonky and so I kept complaining of my manager said hey um you know what you'd be the perfect candidate to be a remedy developer and so I I went from help desk to actually managing a BMC remedy environment and we back then everything was client based so there was a lot of servers to set up and clients to push out and a lot of development and and I did that it was uh it was uh mostly administrative and developer role stuff uh but it was fascinating it was interesting stuff it was I was um getting familiar with the ideal framework and and seeing how that had grown uh in the last couple years so I was fortunate to be able to do that for a number of large companies and then um I had I got approached one day from somebody that said hey um you're very uh you're very outgoing you're for a developer you seem to be very you know um well versed on the platform but you also like talking to people and I said yeah they're like have you ever thought about doing pre-sales and I was like sure why not so I I switched to a different company they were also ITIL based and they had their own service management tool and uh so I love telling the story because I was based out of Southern California at the time I got a call and someone wanted to see a demo of our service desk product I said sure where is where are they at uh Solana Beach California and uh it's like oh that's a that's a neat little Beach town it's a little surf town just North of San Diego I um I hopped on a train down there for the day and and and got down there it's a beautiful little City they have a great pizza place um and I thought it was interesting that there would be somebody that would be interested in an Enterprise I.T service management platform out here uh as it turns out it was Fred Luddy who was the founder of servicenow he was doing some research and looking at the platform and ways that he could be Innovative and develop a new solution and um I I gave him some insight into what we were dealing with at the time and I said I hope it all works out for you fast forward to a couple years I went to work for BMC remedy I helped spin up the remedy on demand solution for public sector and but in the in the back of my mind I had that meeting with Fred in my um in my head going man this guy's really taken off because as I'm doing my stuff I see servicenow starts popping up everywhere I mean they were this this little rocket ship starts taking off and and and as as things were picking up with it they're going to overtake they're going to take this space they're going to overtake everything and um so I I had had planned on doing remedy until my retirement I hadn't really thought about doing the switching to another platform but again it's hard to ignore this fast moving rocket ship that's right next to you in your same space and so um I started I went and checked out the platform I got my own developer instance go to servicenow and go you can get your own service now developer instance to start playing around and I was blown away I was absolutely just stunned at how some of the things that I've been doing for years it was so much easier to do on a servicenow platform and it just so that I had the perfect networking opportunities I took some I took training I got certifications and I made the switch so that's a long short story of how I got involved in the platform that's amazing and and I love what you said about that rocket ship right um so Ken how did you get on that rocket ship how did you get to where you are today as as one of servicenow's very own um I had a an unorthodox uh background uh so I didn't have a very enterprisey uh technical background uh before servicenow uh before I went to I was in the Marine Corps uh I grew up in Philadelphia very modest means uh my school was underfunded and a lot of books but a lot of police officers a lot of metal detectors that sort of thing right uh so going into the Marine Corps I bought uh that uh that drive to always want to improve myself uh improve the situation I was in regardless of what resources I had I just made use of what I had uh and so I did eight years in the Marine Corps at doing that as a meteorologist uh in anyone who knows anything about meteorology right there's a lot of computing that's required in order to put out a forecast to get out of data from wherever you're trying to get that forecast accurately for and uh the modeled all that data so I had access at all times to uh let's call it Enterprise equipment but um anyone's been in the military knows that the equipment that we get is like a decade old it's like it's from the last war basically so it isn't uh brand new but it's what I had and it ran Linux uh it had SSD drives so all the basic things that I needed to do to basically get my feet wet uh with learning that technical side of my meteorological expertise um so I did meet a lot of meteorology for eight years like I said and I got so good at it that I started instructing it so I they uh had me go down to the schoolhouse we call it and I teach other Marines Navy and Aaron to uh be a meteorologist and uh that uh further allowed me to develop my social skills right and also teach those technical skills that I gained when I was in the desert over there uh to uh folks that were coming up under me and uh teaching something trying to teach something that someone really shows you how much or how little you know about that uh about that thing so it really like interest with technology peaked and it kind of uh it started to outpace my uh interest in meteorology so that's why I started uh trending towards a technology route my first job outside the Marine Corps was uh it was Florida the state of California um it's a uh it was a fingerprint system right it's what a sort of welfare system down in down in California and all their systems were old so it was uh it was basically a one for one spot for the Marine Corps but I take that as a blessing because using all our old gear I had to I had to do things that uh I could that ordinarily uh you couldn't just go down those not the internet and run it right because there's old systems a lot of things were custom built so for example uh uh anyone who's running Linux now you're running that right I don't want to get too technical they were using shell so it was it was it was bash before it was uh born again right so uh learning things the hard way uh really prepped me for service now because being at that place everything was being done with spreadsheets and uh paperwork and I needed a way to better uh manage what was going on because things started breaking so we needed trouble tickets and all those things getting generated so I started looking at software platforms that offered that uh sort of thing and uh all of them were a lot smaller players in service now and uh I tried them out and they they uh satisfied some of our problems but not all of them um for which there were many and I had a friend reach out to me say hey does this platform called servicenow it does uh ticketing but also does a whole lot of other things I see in BB and at this time at annual CNB was right I'm just a marine coming into technology I'm like what is that so um I went to the website and I landed on a community pages right um it's a bunch of forums and things like that and uh I started uh reading the testimonials from other people drove me to then uh dedicate more time to it and start a developer instance um which is free on the servicenow platform and basically you have uh access to within limits to demo the entire platform before you buy anything but what I was using it for was uh I want to learn this because I possibly want to work at this company so I I want to be able to in the interview say I have hands-on experience uh no matter how light it was that I know what this platform would do these are the things that I can I've used it for for a previous position you know those sorts of things and I really just fell in love with the platform this is what Gene said um it was refreshing um the colors right is uh it doesn't look like you're organism of our Mainframe type of environment it looked really fresh right like a new app um so I it was very easy to kind of get sucked into the whole ecosystem and and it made it easy to to work right and I forget the fun but you know the world worth of service now I it's very easy to uh for me to like spend a lot of time talking about this company because since I've been here uh coming from where I came from with nothing and and then you know being with servicenow it's not in day like my life now I can't believe what's going on I was able to buy two houses for my family I've had two kids since then I've been here for five years I I'm not going anywhere and uh this uh when I was coming up in the 90s you would hear people talk about like you know I want to get a job at Google or Microsoft and things like that this is that company I feel like of like the the future so this is the place to be and the way I'm supported here about my management and just my peers I have I didn't think I would find that kind of uh that kind of fulfillment and a job outside the Marine Corps but I did wow Ken and let me let me say first of all thank you so much for your service and what an incredible excuse me what an incredible story that's amazing um and I know a lot of our folks who are on this call today are interested or considering making a career move and want to step into Tech so if you could speak a little bit to you know how were you inspired to switch your career path and work on the servicenow platform I know you've touched on this already but um Gene if you kind of want to kick us off on on how you switched from remedy to servicenow uh again it was it was one of those things that you um you see the tool you don't realize how many people or people don't realize how much they uh how how much they interact with it you may call in for uh the help with the with your cell phone or you may call in for for uh help at your at your work for your desktop computer and and more than likely they're using the servicenow platform but you know it evolved from this ticketing system to this digital Workforce workflow platform and so you know a lot of people make the assumption that this is just a very technical you know there's a lot of programming involved and it's very low code no code programming but more importantly It lines aligns a lot with business processes and that's the thing that brought my attention is because we have we are getting to this point where you know we're trying to be more efficient with resources that we have and a lot of resources yeah complex resources complex processes is how do you automate that and and that tool this the platform that they've developed is what what really got my attention in the the biggest part too is Ken mentioned it the communities is is you can go into the communities and ask questions because I guarantee you somebody is has tried to solve a problem but you're probably trying to solve too and here's the other thing I've been in the like as I mentioned I've been in this space for a while and it could it can be a little intimidating talking to developers sometimes you're talking to people because you you feel like you're going to ask a stupid question believe me I I ask plenty of stupid questions so and I'm not shy about that but the thing is is nobody's gonna judge on it people are more than well willing to come out and help you give you links to where you should take a look at give you offer you know offer advice they they're there to help you and they want you to all we all want you to be successful so um a lot of folks even go out of their way to try to solve some of these complex problems and right I think that's the communities is the big thing right Ken right exactly and yes and we're we're working at the bleeding edge of most things uh with this Enterprise platform So you you're not really expected to know everything right and uh but you are expected to be able to uh acknowledge that and reach out to people people and that you know that whole imposter syndrome that it's I I had to 30 days in servicenow I had to immediately start saying I don't know right because you come in and what you get hired for one job and then all of a sudden as opportunities start us bringing up if you wanted to grab them they'll let you and it's like do you know how to do this as I actually know but you already grabbed onto this feeding train and they'll let you figure it out and uh you know uh and other people who grab onto that I train with you and you guys are you guys will figure it out together with the community pages and other developers and that's why we have so many amazing products so the whole imposter syndrome we're all imposters but we're all we all admit it and uh then uh at the end of it we are all experts at what we do so I really love the community both in and outside of the company and that's again what's one of the things that I was inspired was just that this is an opportunity for me to get in on something new and different and fast-paced and moving and and be able to actually contribute to some of the things that I've been dealing with in the past you know to come up with a better way to you know build a better mousetrap build uh build better processes and make life easier for everyone so um that I I think that's one of the biggest Inspirations is just to be able to innovate um on this platform right you both have led me into into our next question for today if you could kind of speak to some of those servicenow training courses or certifications um that you may have taken to put you into the position that you are in today um or do you have any recommendations for our audience on you know where to get started or some specific courses um that you found to be um most helpful I can start on that one because um as soon as I had an opportunity to jump into the servicenow platform I I leveraged my my network my LinkedIn Network and folks that I've worked with in the past to to get a job as a business analyst on a servicenow um uh company that was using the platform and uh I asked can I can I get trained on this and and um they said yeah absolutely we have all these training credits so I used them I used as much of those trading credits as I could there was there's a lot of micro certifications that you can get done in a day um but the big one is the servicenow certified system administrator which is sort of the whole um the whole platform and all the different modules and how does it work what's a mid-server you know how how do these uh how do these inner Integrations were look at that because that that is a great starting point and in fact it's recommended that you you get into that foundation and get your CSA uh and that opened up a huge amount of doors for me once I got my CSA um and I have probably displayed on my wall right here next to my other one which is my servicenow certified um implementation specialist for itsm so um my biggest thing and I've I've uh I've had the opportunity to talk to to folks with servicenow in in other presentations is that it is not easy it's not designed to be easy if it was easy then everybody would have a certification so um I and I I like I said I ask stupid questions I've also bombed out on these tests because they are hard but they're meant to be thorough they're meant to be um specific so you understand not just you know the technical aspects but why why is it that we do it this way in service now why is this a platform configured um because it's best practice um so Ken what are your thoughts on certifications um yeah I was just you know thinking while you were talking it's uh it's definitely a hard cake uh to bake but uh it's it tastes really good though you know what I mean yeah absolutely yeah trademark that right but uh yeah it's uh it's not easy but it is very rewarding um very fulfilled I wouldn't uh so the whole certification thing certifications are good but what I love even more about service now is that service service now is not going to look on your resume and say up no certification no bueno I mean uh that's not going to happen certifications are proved that yes you did to take that extra thing that the extra step what we want to Stow what we want you to show is that do you actually really know this thing and that course that you took for example the uh uh the service now system administrator course right uh to be a system admin you need to know you need to be a generalist at a bunch of things at a deep enough level to be effective uh the course that I took was uh the fundamentals course um the service now fundamentals course it's the same the same type of deal right it gives you enough at it at the at the right depth to be to be effective um going in the door and that that help that is what made me uh uh really love the company when I uh when I joined because that you you know you get that feeling when you join the company it's all right I'm in all right I have to pretend that I know what I'm doing now uh because I really don't um I didn't really have that feeling that service now right because uh I came in and everyone knew uh really that nobody really uh knows how to do this thing this is back in 20 in 2016 but what we are looking for is folks that really want to figure it out and here's a here's all the resources right and uh I ate that a lot right it was a bunch of free free knowledge on the learning website and the community pages right um and you can get you could you could you could take the course all the way to get that cert and then you could take the next one it you just waterfall into a different courses because it's really that it's really that addictive and you don't have to be a coding Master you don't need a degree for MIT or Stanford or anything like that you don't have to really understand code because to your point we have low code and no code uh features on our on our platform and um when I came in service now I didn't outside of shell scripts I did not code but I was within six months able to spin up a servicenow instance uh for my team that is still being used to this day five years later that I created when I came in you know uh a day you know day 30 a service now so it's taking that service now from The Middle's course before I got hired gave me enough of a Runway when I was in the door to be immediately useful to my manager outside of the job I was even actually hired for which was the hardware test engineer now they uh I was do I was using the servicenow platform to better uh to create more the better better uh optimize the way we were using our equipment within the company so we were eating our own dog food we like to say um and yeah we're still using that and we're the whole company is eating our own dog food as we say and that's why we're performing so well even though this economic Market uh is it's a it's a headwind because we service now is on service now it's not really as bad for us so one of the things that um we've been talking both talking about is communities if you're looking for a community to start with because they've got all kinds of they've got communities for GRC for itsm for for each of the different modules but start up with rise up rise up the community there's a specific Community um there are folks in there that will help guide you to to find work where can I start am I going to be starting as a process guy am I going to be a developer guy am I going to be an administrator um so that absolutely is is where you need to to start there you know you can always reach out to either one of us happy to to chat and and help guide you as well because we're again I think one of the biggest strengths of servicenows the ecosystem is the community the people that are involved with this platform we want to help others yeah like like the platforms help us I want to help as many people get into service now I'm screaming from The Mountaintop this place is awesome it's it's not a trap it's really great and uh the platform is as great as our customers actually say that this I love that and I love that plug for the community and now learning um and I also love your your analogy about the cake and I could I I could not agree with you more I'm I'm someone who does not come from a technical background at all but I've been working through that service now fundamentals course yes it is a challenge but it is extremely rewarding every time I get one of those check marks it says that I completed the course I get super excited about it so learning is definitely for everyone and we've actually put in a link right there in the chat that you can check out and that would be the place to get started we have a question that came in from the audience on you know how do we get how can we start and where to get started and the rise up Community is the place to do that right and so my next question for you before you started this journey with servicenow what's something that you wish you would have known that you want to tell our audience about today now that Ken started with that one yeah so much man um you don't need to wait six months for example let me explain it I was talking to a friend uh actually he was a buddy of mine in Iraq right and that he wants to get into developing and he's like yeah I've been you know studying and servicenow and like code for a year I'm like okay what are you waiting for you know apply and put me as a referral he's like I'm not ready yet uh you you're ready right that start just getting started I think is the most important thing uh just getting started get on the community Pages uh get some confidence you're probably more ready than you think you are as my as my advice is to just get started um don't wait till tomorrow you got your phone in your hand right now I know everyone has your phone just start right now um it changed my life and it changed my life with my family and everyone so please after you had the time which you probably do just do it I think the hardest thing that a lot of folks have is just the getting started part and then once you get started being accountable for for what you're trying to do or trying to accomplish so um again I I can't stress enough that it I wish I had known that the I I had sort of has had I was hesitant about getting and asking questions in the community um so the thing that I wish I'd known was just just go ask questions um ask advice I guarantee again people will will help direct you and help guide you to to what you need um the other thing is is look for where um I I I I was again again coming from someone with a very technical background that's also done Consulting um I assumed that this was going to be a very technical thing but there was so much more about this platform just into Tech it's it's the the process it's the things like HR onboarding you don't think you don't think about that a lot no but there is a process success involved in that there's things paperwork that needs to be signed and i-9s they need to be filled out and all that and think about how much harder onboarding became once covet started right yeah on board someone and you haven't even seen them uh the now platform to your point made that so much easier yeah even even with companies struggling with covid and tracking all of their assets things like that it was like it's not so much the hardware and the and and keeping track just the actual process um so I you know it's understanding Asset Management it's understanding GRC you know policy and compliance it's understanding um so when you when you're able to take the process and the technology or servicing out and put it together and line it up um it's beautiful it works great there's a lot of opportunities to help people like like the world works with service now yeah almost yeah they definitely um I I love that and thank you for sharing so our next question for you um what would you say um in terms of you know how how is servicenow changed not only your career path but how has it changed your life and can you kind of spoke to this early on in today's event um so maybe I'll pass to Gene if that's okay with you first um just let us know like how how has this learning these learning courses this career switch really changed your life and and the goals that you have for yourself I I mentioned I thought I was gonna be a remedy guy to uh the day I retired and I I knew everything and I still know a lot of that platform um like the back of my hand is it's been something I was involved in with it for 15 20 years and so um when service sound when I had the opportunity to get on the servicenow platform four years ago I I was you know I was like I'm old I'm I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be able to get this I'm not just like I'm not gonna and it was anything but I I and it's opened up um it's it's made me more confident in being able to talk to people about technology and and um it's made me more um open to sharing my journey you know it's it's it's it's really just um it's given me new life it's giving me new energy um and uh you know you can't teach a dog uh old dog new tricks yes you can absolutely do that I um I'm happy to be part of this um this platform in in the community and everybody and and um being able to get into my job every day at Accenture and help make a difference with our customers um and my my team you know it's it's fun working with these guys that I work with um and I have to give a shout out because two of my my uh Associates just earned their CTA there's certified technical architect which is one of the big big certifications for you you know I I'm inspired by that I it's like I want to be like those guys too because they they spent hours and hours of of studying and and to get the certification and uh very proud of them and and that's what I want to do that's that's actually what um when I got into this four years ago I met a guy that was in my office and I walked in and his wall was full of of certifications I was like what is this all about he goes oh these are all service now and it's like oh I just want one and then you get one you're like you know what I can use another one up here and then then it just becomes this um you know how many certifications can I get how much can I learn about this platform and then I'm loving every bit of it that's great Ken did you have anything to add there um I mean like I said like always a talk-up service now and I mean none of this is scripted like my friends on um you know social media and from childhood they asked me about my job and I talk about it for hours if they let me because it's you know from my childhood getting coming here like this is for meteors to even have a job uh outside the Marine Corps whether it's just been like Ah that's this is great but to have this job uh it's it I ca I can't believe it you know to have a job at like a Fortune 500 company and um like a commercial uh came on last night we were watching uh we're watching the Christmas movie on my phone right and a commercial came on and it was a servicenow commercial and my son turned to me he's six he was like it's service now what um like that that would I would have never imagined that would have happened to me you know growing up on food stamps in Philadelphia and now like I'm working for a company on TV so yeah it changed my life that's incredible thank you thank you Ken thank you Gene for sharing um we've got maybe two or three more questions we can get in um for our folks listening in if you do have any questions let us know put it in the Q a um and we'll we'll try to get to those today my next question if you were to pick one or maybe two projects that you worked on using the servicenow platform or just opportunities that you had from using that what were some that kind of stand out to you that really changed you know your your career path or you know really kind of opened opened your eyes to something new that you didn't maybe didn't consider before and something that came to mind for me was when Gene was speaking about the HR onboarding um so anything along those lines that you wanted to share with the audience I can share one I um was with a large Financial insurance company and and um we they pretty much owned every module and service now but they uh it was one of those things where we had a team we were focusing mostly on cmdb and itsm and asset management and um but my boss said hey um do you know anything about GRC and I was like um kinda and so next thing you know I'm in there I'm configuring the system I am taking some of the data that they've given us from our client um and uh I was I was impressed I was like oh look at this a lot of the stuff that they thought the processes they thought through was just just plug in the data and then and then go through the workflow and make sure everything um works right and uh we were able to develop a policy and compliance system with attestations and all of this fancy stuff um in a couple weeks and I was like Wow and that was bad and then he came back and he goes okay well I got another want to throw at you your software Asset Management it's like oh yeah you know that's that's a challenge you know a lot of companies are buying software but they don't know whose license is and what expires and you know what are renewals and and so we started working on that project too trying to consolidate all this information and again I I was blown away by um the capabilities of the platform and um I I saw some of the questions that we're asking people how do I get into how did you get into that and this network you gotta you gotta work on your network you got to find the right people to talk to you got to make sure um you may get your CSA and you may get your you know you've got if you've got background like I know a lot of folks that have background in finance and insurance and I mean you know LinkedIn send us a message literally that yeah there are people out there that are looking for people like you and it's just a matter of just finding that connection yep no definitely and those connections are even happening right on our our servicenow rise up community and so that link there is in the chat right like if you you can even Post in there it doesn't have to be a technical question it can be just like hey anyone else trying to do this right now let's connect can be online offline um we've got some great uh smaller user groups um that are locally based those are those are another great thing to check out yeah um Ken my question for you would be if you had I'm going to give you in 15 words or less if you go over no one will be mad what would what advice would you give to someone who was in your shoes let's say 10 years ago or five years ago what advice would you give them yeah don't let um don't allow you not being good at math keep you away from the technology industry okay I'm still a marine right so you know I might be bad on the counting [Laughter] I'll give you on LinkedIn that's awesome great yeah yeah all right Gene you got you got a head start there and 15 words or less what advice would you give don't be shy get out there get yourself get your work on your personal branding um work on on on your connections um you know just people head to those those um you just mentioned it a lot of local Regional servicenow business group uh servicenow um local uh with snugs there's now user group meetings like Houston has a great servicenow um User Group community in fact I met with them once at uh a brewery we had a great uh session during the day and then we got to sample some drinks afterwards and um they've also done events that talk well if you get to know you know other folks that are in um that are working their company's new service now you get to meet service now folks you get to go meet service now Partners a lot of times the partners are there as well so um yeah expand your search don't be shy um you know I I again I I have people that have reached out to me and say I have 25 years of project management and I'm getting into service now now and um you know I keep checking in with them to make sure one of them he's not with service now it was great to hear him yeah I landed a job there and um so it's just a matter of who you know yeah absolutely yeah I I cannot agree with you don't be shy um piece there because it really you know change happens when we're uncomfortable and so when we get out there and we ask our questions we make that connection we send that message on LinkedIn um that's just the first step right um and so my my very last question for the both of you um and I'll ask Gene to kick us off is what's next for you right you've made incredible strides in the um in your career path what what are you looking forward to in your future I have had the opportunity to be a business analyst a consultant I'd done implementations on the platform delivery work I'm now again with Accenture doing offerings development and really cool stuff um but again uh having colleagues that just got their their CTA um and uh um you know I was like I I'm I think that's what I want I'm gonna go for that next year I've got to get a couple more certifications down down and completed I actually have vouchers that I need to use um maybe get that done this year but I would love to be a servicenow technical architect and have that on my on my wall hanging up there with my other ones um and just and be part of that that little Elite group of of experts that we we can lean on you know um and even then even as a CTA I always tell people this I was like did I ever be the smartest person in the room because there's always someone that you can ask questions for and if you're the smartest one in the room you're you're it so um and and again that it got Loops back around to my don't be shy and don't feel don't feel like you you know don't don't be scared to ask dumb questions because they're not dumb questions at all the only ones that are unless they say the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask yeah absolutely and so Ken what's next for you A life career both uh so well I got off to a bad start this morning uh my son lost his tube last night and I forgot to put the money underneath there so I'm a bad tooth fairy so I need to work on that number one I need to work on my tooth fairy skills double on that so I doubt if he's double I gotta get 10 bucks um in all seriousness uh well like I really it's public information I I'm very involved in uh web3 blockchain space and uh servicenow is a council member on um on a chain I won't mention it but uh yes I want to be working more along that and have kind of bring a service now with my experience into that new route that new whatever that new stage of Internet is I want to help service now get there and that's uh yeah that's my uh that's where I see myself doing in the next few years that's incredible and I'm so excited for the both of you and I'm so grateful that you were able to join us today that's all that we have time for in terms of questions but I'm sure that you'll be getting some LinkedIn messages and invites later yes from folks today and and for those of you on the call thank you so much for being with us as we mentioned what happens after the session you head to the rise up Community that's where we're at that's where Gene is at that's where Ken is that's where myself and some of our other amazing um rise up Champions so check us out there um check out our courses and then if you have any additional questions um we'll be on for the next couple of minutes um so let us know you can message Us in the chat and then keep in mind that survey there at the end in this survey there's a question where you can provide your contact information if you'd like one of us to follow up with you thank you thank you appreciate it it's great