hi there I'm Claudia hoski from fed Insider and on behalf of the George Washington University Center for excellence in public leadership and servicenow I'm pleased to welcome you to today's webinar strategies for retaining the next gen Workforce please type your questions and comments into the Q a pod if we don't get to them during today's webinar we'll share them with our speakers so they can follow up also take note of the resources tab on the left side of your screen to download today's slides and additional reading on today's topic we offer live captioning for all of our webinars to follow along use the hyperlink under the live captioning or cart tab above the slides we'll have the full transcript available in the next day or two and to earn training credit you'll need to answer all polling questions throughout and now let me turn over the reins to today's moderator Kevin Brooks from servicenow to begin today's discussion thank you Claudia I appreciate that hello everyone and thank you for joining us today I'm Kevin Brooks and I will be moderating what I know will be a lively intimacy discussion about a very timely topic recruiting and retaining federal employees with an emphasis on Generations x and z the need to bring in new Talent while simultaneously retaining the right skill mix of existing Talent is not a new phenomenon federal leaders have been wrestling with this challenge for the past few years and it's fair to say the shock to the system over the last two years added to the criticality while jit X tend to focus on family and gen Z prioritize improving the world as a whole agencies are faced are faced to keep both in mind that they create a strong public sector Workforce today we have Federal Executives and industries thought leaders discussing the differences and similarities between these two generations and the strategies to engage keep them engaged and satisfied at work it's a fascinating time for federal leaders and change agents we have a diverse panel of four highly qualified guests with us today talk about some of those opportunities so first I would like to welcome Miss Jacqueline clay Deputy Chico Department of Education next Mr Eric Dilworth Deputy Chico from nuclear Regulatory Commission also joining us today is Mr Paul Peach senior manager research and Analysis partnership for public service and finally thank you Mr Joe Atherton okay finally Mr Joe Abbott uh Chico for food safety inspection service for the USDA thank you all for being here we have a lot of interesting items to discuss regarding the future of work roles hybrid Workforce uh roles and hybrid workplaces and will play a role in attracting entertaining employees job satisfaction improving productivity culture we have some amazing talented guests with us today so I want to take a moment to learn a little about each of them so Jacqueline let's start with you tell us a little about your role at Department of Education and your background absolutely and thank you Kevin I appreciate that and it's a pleasure to be here today so I am I do have the pleasure of serving as a deputy Chico for Department of Education I have over 32 years of federal service all of which I've sent in human resources and I've just full of reference I've served in every area of human resources that you can possibly think of and I did that purposefully so that I can learn and continue to grow in this area as a deputy Chico in a partnership with the chico I have responsibility in supporting AIDS Mission it's important as mentioned it is to promote student achievement and we Foster equal access and also educational excellence and my responsibilities for human capital I am responsible for the human capital framework and strategy I am assisting with all areas from competency management employees have a path for career progression which is very key to the current environment that we're in develop strategy to retain recruit and talent into the organization I also have responsibility in one of my primary focuses is to look at HR operations to ensure that we continue to be efficient seamless and continuously improve in how we deliver service to our customers and lastly with that I always have a customer experience mindset and then having a customer experience mindset um I I always want to improve the customer experience and as internal to department of education but also I'm always mindful of improving the applicant experience and just continuously working with employees where my passion lies thanks again for having me here today yeah thank you for joining us Eric asked the same question to you tell us a little about your role and about yourself please great thank you uh good afternoon everyone um excited I'm the deputy Chico here at uh NRC you know we have a unique Mission uh as far as regulating the you know the nuclear plants and those things throughout the country uh so I worked from the human resource Society is really about doing everything to support that mission and in my role as Deputy Chico really see it is collaborating with other leaders throughout the agency to promote and execute our HR programs and then another major part of that is actually developing recruiting and developing the rhr workforce and that's key in these times to try to find the right uh skill sets so that we can perform much our mission and services prior to coming to nrci was with USDA and then prior to that out for 29 years I was a Air Force civilian and moved all around the uh the world working for the air force uh in the Pentagon Germany Italy Japan a lot of great opportunities uh and now I'm here in DC for the last uh four years and really enjoying the mission here at NRC thank you thank you Paul could you tell us a little bit about the partnership and your role there sure thing and good afternoon everyone thanks for having me I'm Paul Peach a senior manager of research at the partnership for public service the partnership is a non-partisan non-profit organization dedicated to fostering a more effective federal government and we do that through three streams of work uh one is leadership and professional development training for federal employees two advocacy including uh legislative Embassy on Capitol Hill and three research which supports the first two streams but is also available for free on our website for all federal leaders the media academic students and anyone interested in good government so at the partnership I head up our federal research work portfolio studying things like recruiting hiring professional development and uh currently we're finishing up some research that we did in collaboration with Kevin Brooks and uh service now uh which is focused on Gen X and gen Z civil servants and strategies uh for retaining them in government awesome that's great and that was very it was wonderful working with you not Paul I'm looking forward to the release of those uh of that research paper hey uh finally um Mr Joe Abbott who is the uh Chico for food and safety Production service at USDA Joe you want to talk a little about yourself and your organization participate today and I don't want to sound repetitive to my colleagues that I've already talked about it so nfsis I provide care and feeding if you will over 9 000 employees across the country that inspect meat poultry and egg products so that when you go to the store you're confident that what you're getting is wholesome and it's okay to eat and that's really important um we work with the industry to make sure that they're compliant and we Face the same challenges for recruiting regardless of which generation letter you want to use that everybody else faces which is lower unemployment and job availability rates so we know that the candidates are being really selective about where they want to pursue their next career move we know it's changing constantly so in that regard we want to become the employer of choice we want to make sure that it's the right fit with the organization and that they share the same passion that we have we're keeping the Public's food supply safe back to you thanks for that Joe I appreciate it thank you all for your backgrounds and history uh I'm sure our audience appreciates knowing all about the work you do and it provides them with a good foundation for questions and feedback um so I want to begin by diving into some specific challenges that federal agencies are dealing with with regards to culture and the future of work um so let's start with Jacqueline and Jacqueline how important to the mission of government is retaining the younger Workforce foreign this question is really important and critical I can't emphasize enough how critical it is for a government right now and in the future to retain and recruit the younger Workforce I believe we're at a place where we need to ensure we're bringing in a successor generation that's prepared to move us forward to move the government forward with Innovation um the ability to challenge the same and processes the ability to seek change moving up away from some of the Antiquated processes and technology that we have now so for me um just to retain the the younger generation we need to ensure that we have forward um thinking approaches I also um just want to mention that when we bring in a successful generation they can currently work hand in hand down with the current Generations that are on board and and learning some of the program areas which is a part of succession planning um I'll be very Frank with you it absolutely pains me that we don't do enough of this ideally we would work in a government that prepare up the generations so that will help to help us move forward there's a value in working with uh opposite of someone who sees the world differently uh the pairing if you will help the retention because Gen X is giving back and then Z will feel more connected to the mission um in its employees and by no means am I um suggested to just s is not Innovative or forward thinking but we too include me could benefit from The Challenge I for one would love to give back and work with Gen Z to partner train develop their skill set and prepare them to take on management past last week again and I say this before it's a part of our workforce planning efforts and I'm hoping that all of our federal agencies are moving towards more um retention and recruitment of the younger generation great thank you thank you um we'll switch a little bit so Eric your agency has a really unique Mission set with a different type of Workforce so are there unique circumstances you might add to what Jacqueline just said yeah I think the with our you know scientists and engineer focus on on some of our critical skill sets you know we have to one of the main things that we have to do is promote our mission and all the the good things about what we do all the unique uh work that goes on uh inside the agency so we're starting to do that in doing that up front with in the recruitment phase and then also in the development phase of people being on board so something that I see here that we do more than I've seen in any other agency is that we do a lot of rotational assignments where folks can know they've been on board for whatever amount of time but they can go work in different uh organizations different maybe a job with different skill sets where not only they develop but they also bring something different to that office that they're working in and that really I've seen it since I've been here only been here uh 14 months but I've seen how that really uh employees found that a real value they're they're getting to do something outside of maybe their normal normal career field so that's a great retention tool that we we we're using no it makes folks want to stay with the organizations because they know they can get different uh opportunities and learn different things and it's going to help them develop help them if you know get promoted all the things they're trying to do so if we get by providing those opportunities that's really helping with the with the say the middle uh career folks and then when you see the the newer uh workers come on board and then they see these opportunities they know they need to get really good in their current position but then they know they'll be able to cross-train and do these type of things it really is one of the unique things we're doing here to retain our Workforce thank you thank you for that absolutely um good points there um so Paul um you deserve Declan and um Eric talk a little bit do both of their their things they're doing and seeing track what you're seeing across government uh yes absolutely uh I want to Echo what Jacqueline said uh retaining well recruiting retainer retaining uh younger federal employees is just critical to the federal Workforce um they are the future of government and a few data points to keep in mind uh recently I think it was back in February um EEOC put out a report which noted that uh 72 percent of the federal Workforce is over the age 40 whereas only 54 of private sector workers are over age 40. so uh that that really underscores what we all know which is the federal Workforce is older relative to the private sector um another data point to consider and this is based on our analysis of fed scope data um gen Z currently it only makes up 1.6 of the federal Workforce Now that might seem logical given that uh gen Z is just coming to the workforce the oldest gyms a year today is 25 years old but consider that uh NC is currently 9.1 percent of the overall U.S labor force so there is an imbalance there um and you know this really underscores that we need the federal government needs to do a better job getting your people into government getting excited about public service and providing them the resources the motivation and support to keep them in government um especially when we consider that within the next two years or so a third percent of the federal Workforce hits retirement age so uh the retirement tsunami we've been talking about for a while is is going to be coming and finally I just want to note that there's an opportunity here gen Z although it's still defining itself has already established reputation for being socially conscious and it committed to giving back basically it's demonstrated the ingredients of public service and I think Mission public service is as really a selling point to get younger people in the government and if that can be leveraged to keep them in government it was an excellent points I'm glad that that that's kind of a coalescence around uh what our two first Speaker said so thank you for that uh so Joe we're gonna switch back to you now and change up a little bit uh are there different work expectations for Gen X and gen Z and what strategies can agencies employ to adapt uh to different needs so uh Kevin that's an excellent question and I hope you can hear me better now just let me know if you can't an interesting statistics on the Gen X and and uh gen Z uh and I look at that question in two ways so work expectations from the agency standpoint I think uh we the work still needs to be done um in a manner that for us and fsis ensures that the food is still safe so we have the particular dilemma of 90 of our Workforce are in what you would call a fixed facility an establishment or a laboratory and the other 10 percent would have more what you would call the flexible possibility for remote alternative work arrangements so that's one of the restrictions or the constraints that we have to deal with we've got um the same values in that we know that Gen X and the gen zers they place a high importance both on financial stability and uh also the career stability opportunity to pursue something um meaningful in their futures and the public service aspect and public health we think is critical and important enough that it would be attractive to the Gen Z group and also because of the benefits that we offer the Gen xers seeing that sort of able to operate independently but still be able to contribute and sustain the level of employment is critical to their future success and another thing is that we do offer uh significant incentives to our new Workforce whether it's a recruitment incentive we have retention incentives student loan repayment in addition to the public uh public student loan the forgiveness program we have our own nfsis we have a new employee referral program so we kind of recognize folks who are trying to attract folks like them in their communities uh and we have Town Hall meetings open microphone Town Hall we need to talk directly to the administrator ask questions in a safe environment for that interaction for that human element because we know post covid everybody feels a little dehumanized when we don't see each other very often in the workplace even though 90 of our Workforce does see each other on a regular basis because a half is kind of the job at the flexible work schedules we have special pay setting uh for hard to fill locations and we have um another strategy we're using is for continuing education so employees that want to pursue Advanced learning it doesn't necessarily have to be a degree program we're pursuing they want to learn a new skill a new trade for their career maybe it's they're in the food science and they want to learn about the finance or program management and we allow them the opportunity to go and do that so those are some of the uh strategies that we're doing to adapt to the newer Workforce don't tell anybody but in fsis um we got 25 of our Workforce that are baby boomers so that matches up perfectly with what Paul was talking about in terms of the demographics and believe it or not we still have a handful of traditionals that are working for us that were born around 1940. so that's an element of Enlightenment and learning we've got to figure out how to pass that on down through the workforce to get to those gen ziers to carry that forward and the microphone back to you Kevin thanks Joe um so Jacqueline I'm going to kind of ask you to follow up on what Joe just talked about uh particularly if you have any information around his last point about traditionalist and a a you know a five generation Workforce and so uh are you guys at doe doing similar things uh that Joe's organization is doing and are you seeing similar trends thank you Kevin um absolutely we um we're seeing similar Trends our data is a little bit different than um what what Joe mentioned yes we do have um several Generations represented at Department of Education but in that our largest one that's represented right now is um in fact Gen X um and we our numbers are lower on gen Z numbers are lower on um uh Millennials numbers of lower on our um on our baby boomers but with that um another data point that I want to mention about Department of Education is that we are almost uh 55 or so a remote Workforce environment so I you know I don't want to say that there are different work expectations at Department of Education because I don't uh based on my observation I I don't see that but I do recognize and observe that there are definitely um differences in the way that people operate um at Department of Education based on those generational differences so some of the things that we've observed is that we do see that these in the organizations putting the density generation typically um want to stay connected to the organization they want to say connected to their colleagues their the the employees they want to feel like they are a part of the overall environment so when we moved on covet to this more remote work environment I think the impact was very consequential to them and whereas the Gen X because and I think it was Joe that mentioned this or maybe it was on poll where they are more uh they were more focused on family a lot of them enjoyed the remote work environment and being able to build those family relationships it's still something like they're giving back to the public service so we've done a couple of things at Department of Education to try to help that family to what Joe was done um um at USDA which is really bringing in more mentorship type programs using incentives to retain our um our Genesee Workforce we also um have developed um intern um cohorts if you will and we we're also looking at um how we can do more training and development on working in a hybrid work environment specifically working with some of our supervisors and managers so that they can understand how they continue to um reach those generations and make sure that they do feel like they are a part of the organization because you do want that empathetic leader uh and where some of us may not need that on a day-to-day basis I've recognized that some of them didn't see definitely need that empathetic um leader and they need to feel like they are part of the community so we've definitely explored that and we've opened some strategies to help our employees feel connected to Department of Education great thank you very much for that uh Paul have you had anything um I'm sorry yeah yeah so please absolutely uh I I want to note that uh uh Jaclyn's findings what she was just sharing from uh the Department of Education uh we we were hearing similar things from other agencies through our research and uh what Joe was talking about what USDA is doing um in terms of trying to encourage desires to stay uh those are some of the strategies that we actually highlight in the report I might talk about in a little while um but some some other thoughts on on different work expectations for Gen X and gen z um I want to touch a little more on uh flexible work um and just to note that gen Z right uh in 2022 the oldest gen Z person is 25 years old and and that means that a lot of Kenzie civil servants have only experienced uh remote work in hybrid work many times years came into the workforce during the pandemic uh so uh you know the the notion of being in the office five days a week is is somewhat foreign for some people younger people and as a result although we did hear that some gen Z do want to be in office the office like Jacqueline said so they can't connect to their colleagues and feel that they belong many also expect flexible work that's their only experience and now it's an expectation that they have that that is the normal work environment additionally we've heard from some younger people that they see flexible work options as an indication of trust that their leaders trust and value them two other quick things to know um regarding Mission Gen X gen Z civil servants like all civil servants uh tend to be connected to Mission that they they support Mission they're public servants that that's why they're in government um but I will note that again TMZ is um very social conscious however uh a lot of TMZ people we talked about noted that they don't see government Service as as the only way that they contribute to the public good and also they really want a workplace and work responsibilities that align with the personal values so as a result younger people may be more willing to change jobs within the federal government or even to leave federal government altogether if they can find a job um that they think better meets their goals um and and connects them closer to Mission and reflects their personal values a little more um and then finally I just want to note that um in terms of growth gen z a difference to gen Z is um they are particularly Keen to grow um and they are looking for guidance tailored guidance like mentoring we talked about that already a little bit um and and they're looking for supervisors mentors and other leaders to help them plan a federal career help them understand career arcs they want to hear about the career stories from their leaders and they want to know how they can block a federal career so they're looking for that additional support and bespoke support when it's available those are some very fascinating topics interest you know some data points and I want to pull off for a little bit and uh that kind of leads from that you talked about um the expectation of remote work and hybrid work uh for multiple Generations but can you talk about technology and the use of technology and the expectation within gen Z of an elevated employee experience seeing as how they have a very robust personal uh experience when it comes to technology what am I looking for as far as the work is concerned absolutely and uh that that is the case robots that's a great word uh so Jen Z this is the first generation to grow up uh completely grow up with digital technology integrating to their lives um and so as a result it is it second nature to them and they expect younger people expect uh well integrated high functioning technology um in all aspects of their life including at work so at work they want technology that is um you know that facilitates uh reliably communication collaboration and sense of belonging and of course they want technology that is uh stable um doesn't uh have lots of bugs and that stays up to date with The Cutting Edge um and and so while um both the Gen X and gen Z civil servants we spoke with in our study talks about frustrations with um outdated Tech infrastructure in government and and you know sometimes a culture that's slowly to adapt to new technology gen extras tend to talk about that as the cost of doing business um it's a headache but they're public servants and and they keep at it because they're Mission focused and that's what they do uh gen z uh more would talk about technology as a retention issue that if if they could not work in an environment that provide them the resources the tools to enable them to work effectively that they might look elsewhere again gen Z don't see um the public service as the only way to give back to the world and if they feel they can do the important work meet their mission in the private sector and have the resources they need to do it they may start looking there um and I just want to note one other thing um because gen Z is so Tech fluent uh one recommendation we made um as a retention strategy but also as a way to leverage their skill set is to set up reverse mentoring programs in which younger people are sharing their Knowledge and Skills their technical fluency with older generations of gen xers Baby Boomers and even older Millennials to help them catch up to speed on using let's say Microsoft teams or or slack and maybe it could be simple as the terminology and syntax of chat messaging um and and this could be a good way to not only share their knowledge but also to give them a sense of agency which of course can lead to retention but finally we have to be careful that reverse mentoring program is is organized respectfully and and productively so no one is is put out by having um a much younger person who they may not feel us uh appropriate to to give them a mentoring relationship back to you Kevin thanks Paul so that's a lot of that's that's a very good uh peek under the hood you know some of the things that we're seeing across government so it's kind of narrowing again it's Eric so at NRC are there any specifics that you can offer regarding how you're using technology to perhaps um move the needle forward nothing specific but one one of the things that um that we did at NRC and prior to me come on board they made a decision prior to prior to covert to go to issue out laptops to everyone so once the pandemic hit we know they were used to that using that the laptops having the connectivity from homes so I honestly I have not had I think I had one day in the last year that I had a problem connecting at home or any kind of issue so all those Kinks that were worked out it allows our you know our new Workforce to come on board and it's pretty seamless now one thing that we have found is that you know ensuring that they have all the other things that go on that go with onboarding that those things are provided immediately so it's not just the technology it's making sure everyone has the right access and that's something that we've been working on and I know other agencies have a challenge with that and especially when we have we have a six different locations where our employees are spread out across the United States so the challenge is to make sure we have the the right processes in place to ensure that that new employees no matter where they are coming on board they get the same uh access in the same amount of time which should be you know the day they walk in the doors what the goal is so that's that's more of our challenges the process side not the available technology I think that's I think that's part of technology I think making sure that you can actually do your job on day one is absolutely important so that is a that is a great ad um a great value in my opinion uh so Joe uh are you seeing the same thing that food and safety and not just technology or hybrid work but just a combination of how you know how people are being coming on board or um engaging technology-wise or hybrid work-wise uh short answer is yes uh but I again I think um we looked at it maybe a slight turn of that same Kaleidoscope so so we believe that we've got a value proposition for candidates coming from either uh NX Gen Y or gen Z and now value proposition which is focused on food safety we I think needed to learn how to talk their language right so uh like like Paul was saying earlier uh they have their own vernacular they have instant messages they have uh texting instead of speaking and we know also in our HR environment that the language that we use for getting into the FED is USA jobs right that's the platform that has been chosen and uh in doing that we kind of have to reverse the reverse mentoring so what we approach we took was that we send out leadership even all the way up to the administrator into work unit meetings in the plan to talk to employees about getting folks to join the agency and we and we listen and we listen to how they describe it especially the newer employees and what their experience was and then try and translate that into opportunities for um sessions um we did tutorials on how to apply to USA Jobs Hands-On at the workplace in the hopes of getting them to talk our language even if it's just for a few minutes to process the the dare I say difficult USA Jobs application because that hasn't changed regardless of how tech savvy we think we are they still have to go through all those wickets the other thing we learned is that the younger Generations do expect immediate response it's it's almost instantaneous because of the technology and so we have to learn how to teach them to embrace some of that human inject into their work life whether that's a face-to-face meeting with a supervisor about performance instead of a chat message that says LOL you did a good job right so we have that career development through our Office of Education and employee development that entity and then on social media we had to do a whole re-branding of our agency and its Mission because all the old nomenclature and visuals that we used it really wasn't resonating with it so those are a couple of things that we did specific for FSI is knowing 90 of our Workforce doesn't get to take full advantage of the all the possible flexibilities in the Fed great okay that's very good very good add to that um so uh we're gonna move on to a little bit of a more of a programmatic kind of stuff here shaping the workforce so Jacqueline can you list a few programs or incentives that your agency is using to Target mid-career and younger and tenure employees yes absolutely and I will start with and census uh the department of educational uses a wide variety of incentives to Target both mid and career and our young and Senior employees specifically we offer student loan repayments incentives we do retention and recruitment incentives as well as Superior qualification type incentives for those employees um with unique skill sets one that I see that's used a lot with is that information technology I can imagine Digital Scientists and some of your other um specialty positive education fields we use that to support your qualification as well for uh some of our programs that we've developed at Department of Education we have a Pathways to leadership program that we developed and it is specifically for grade 11 to 13. um with that particular program it is one year in length um it is a competitive program we have 20 slots that we offer to our employees and the goal is to really strengthen in the line um these employees with other senior leaders within the organization and help develop uh succession planning and getting them to understand um how to operate as a leader in Department of Education while supporting the mission the other program that we have at Department of Education is development through mentorship this program is um we we have approach for ds7 and above so that's really our entry level um individuals that come in and the mentors for this program have to be a gs13 and above and they have an opportunity to help the agency develop its Workforce by working with the gs7 and above um in this particular program again the mentorship program it lasts um a little over a year we allow the employees to work on specific projects with the mentors they get uh regular and recurring feedback with the mentors they get to rotate to some of the other organizations to work on special projects and they get professional um mentorship from typically what we find in this particular program is executive leadership and the other thing that we did with this program is we develop mentoring moments um in in mentoring moments we have Executives that come in um on a monthly basis they speak to um it doesn't matter which what grade you are in the Department of Education you can come and participate um in that but it's a virtual event that we put on for all employees and we talk about um different leaders leadership activities sometimes we focus on Executive co-qualifications we may focus on hybrid work environment but again it's an opportunity for others to listen in and gain some mentorship from some of our mostly seasoned leaders at Department of Education there is one program that we're working on now that we've developed um in our two-year plan our two-year goal to continue to enhance our human capital which is to um developed a entry-level cohort program that is centralized and the reason why we want to develop a centralized entry-level cohort programming so that we can make sure that everyone is coming in together at the same time receiving the same opportunity to rotate to the various um we call the principal principal office components within Ed um they will be assigned a mentor they have one supervisor they have regular recurring meetings with one another in a lot of that activity is done uh virtually but that's something that we're looking at to develop as we continue to enhance our mentoring efforts here at Department of Ed later on this one but Eric I'm gonna switch gears not much gear but continue along that liminal thing to Jacqueline laid out but again going back to the fact that you have a highly technical Workforce are there any programs or incentives that you all are using all right thanks Gavin no I I think one of the things we've done um to recruit and retain is using uh retention and send us more uh that has moved out quite a bit in the last year especially with the workforce that we have you know uh how it's sought after work for so we've been much more flexible with offering uh retention uh bonuses to our current staff and also in the recruitment piece one of the one of the things we found out is that you know I'm sure everyone on here know that without with it being really competitive to recruit uh Workforce flexibilities is the real key you know whether it's full-time uh remote or or very flexible telework schedule so um and we we're currently re-looking at telework uh uh policy right now uh we were four days of paper so we're we're looking to go less than that but even with the four days pay period you know actually talking to the candidates and explaining all all the flexibilities within that and one of the things we have a really flexible um work schedule you know we explain it where you know if you have a situation where you need to get online in the morning no but then you need to break to see your child off to school you could break come back if you need to go you know at the late in the afternoon pick up your child you can break and come back and finish your work day it's just having those conversations with um recruiting folks really made a difference in fact one of our leaders brought to me last week about situation with their uh with their daughter being recruited by a private sector company and where the company and we're thinking about how we could do this where you know when they recruit a person they give them a an offer but then they have a kind of no say another Junior employee have conversations with them about the about the organization uh and let them talk to different people before they even make a decision on joining so when they do join they're very they're very confident in in the decision they made to join your organization so we're we're looking at that and then also which I think Jacqueline mentioned really identifying the uh all the opportunities for advancement and and and moving around and that those type of things too uh prospective employees or your Junior employees that come on board you really have to give them the big picture because they you know uh they're you know some in many cases they're not patient they want to see the big picture so they can determine how long they're going to stay with you or or how soon they're going to leave so and then having that mindset that yeah you're you're you're hiring people to get you know to to get them uh experienced so they can help you uh complete your mission but also that they may leave at some point so you've got to have uh and that's not an and don't look at that it's a negative thing so providing all the opportunities to make sure they understand all the flexibilities all the benefits all of those things up front is key to to us retaining people down the line thank you Kevin yeah absolutely absolutely and Paul are there are other programs or incentives that you're seeing across the federal space that could fill the kind of the gap between what Paul or what Eric and Jacqueline just uh just alluded to yeah absolutely all the ideas that Jacqueline and Eric mentioned I completely agree with um and I want to touch on two things then that uh Joe and Eric mentioned earlier in this conversation uh one is a particular type of financial incentive um and that is a student loan forgiveness program uh gen Z is uh particularly concerned about financial stability and you know the average gensier has or had in 2021 18 000 in student loan debt uh which unfortunately is is not that high balance to Millennials even some gen xers but still it's a lot of money uh the difference is that Jen's ears um have grown up um uh you know throughout they came you know they they were cognizant they were young but cognizant of the 2008 Great Recession and um and they're coming to age um in in you know the bay as we've been going through the code 19 crisis and Market fluctuations and and now um we have um Rising home prices and and and um inflation and there's a lot of reasons to be concerned about money um so in any event they're particularly concerned about their financial stability um and so from what we heard from younger federal employees is that um the public loan Public service loan forgiveness program and the the federal student loan repayment program are two great existing Federal programs that agencies can Leverage to provide some Financial relief and and that helps keep them in government um I will know um the difference of course being the Public service loan forgiveness program um is a program that's available to all of federal employees as well as employees of state governments local governments and some non-profit organizations and um um you know through the programs program and who gives direct loans for people who've worked for 10 years in these positions uh whereas the federal student loan repayment program is a program that enables agencies to set up their own student loan repayment program about the ten thousand dollars per year for a total of sixty thousand dollars per employee um and and what we also learned is that a lot of uh civil servants don't know about these programs so a recommendation is just to make younger people aware of them um but it's that's not enough they also know need to know how to apply they need to be supported in that way um in 2021 for example about a third of applications for the Public service loan forgiveness program uh were incomplete they were begun but incomplete and that's indication that for whatever reason people weren't able to complete those applications so people need support that technical support to know how to complete the process I also want to touch on what Eric mentioned he was talking about the nrc's rotation program and um for both Gen X and gen Z rotations details and public-private exchange programs can be a great way to engage people to provide them an opportunity they wouldn't otherwise get to let them develop professionalize through that new work environment and to get them back after that they're they're done um and um you know we've already uh talked about today a few inter infra agency rotational programs but of course there are interagency rotations and details um um that should be considered as examples and finally I just want to mention that in addition to the IPA Mobility Program which enables federal employees to work temporarily in non-profits Academia and state local government there are a few public private Talent exchange programs which enable federal employees to work in the private sector for a short amount of time um DOD DHS office of Director of National Intelligence and the VA currently have a program and the partnership actually put out a report last year which is available for free on our website that goes into details on these programs um which I I think provide a good examples of what could be done and this report also um connects to the various hiring authorities that can be leveraged to create such programs uh reports called I believe Trading Places uh the benefits challenges and potential of federal public changes back to you Kevin oh great thanks Paul that was a lot of good information for us okay folks so I'm gonna we've been very Broad in general uh in this conversation but I do want to get a little bit more specific for a little bit um and I want to go to Eric first but I want to talk about are there any areas or career fields that bear particular attention with regards to generational recruiting and retention for us it's the uh just the science scientists and Engineering career field um and our focus is on that is to always be bringing in you know finding that right sweet spot of how many new people that we need to bring in no for succession planning but also ensuring that we're you know bringing people in with the new uh new learning new the newest um able to use the newest technology and have the newest education or most recent education in fact of course we we provide continuous education but though but the the part of that that's difficult is the the um competitiveness to reach those hot that top talent so what we did in the last it started three years ago we're on our second cohort that just started and we it's it's it seems like not a big number but it it really makes a difference we we bring in a cohort of 25 uh employees and we it's and I think someone else mentioned this we centralized them their their engineers and scientists but they we bring them in under otico and we actually brought up a program manager that she she was a uh resident inspector nuclear out there in the field we brought her over uh to El Tico and she manages these 25 folks and we provide them rotational you know where we do it here in Rockville Maryland in the DC area that's where we're our headquarters is but they come in we hide it from all over the country from some of the you know the the bit you know best universities and and uh also diverse uh uh universities and then we over two over a year and a half period we send them out to different locations to work you know three months at a time uh and and get that training as they go through and then there's other you know training no on the job training then of course uh a lot of classroom training too so they're getting that that uh intense uh experience up front but that's one of our bit you know ways that we're able to get those uh top uh students coming out of college because they see this program and they see the benefit of and of course they're getting promoted every year we bring them at at nine and we outplace them at the 13 level so um and and we break we bring them in based on experience because some of these folks have some experience and then they have the education too recent college graduates so uh we may bring them in at 11 and those folks will be our place at 13. then I was out placed after 12 but they still have a Target to 13. so that's been really beneficial that that they know they'll get the the training uh also we do the loan repayment so all of those things really make a difference in uh in getting that top talent great thank you uh Joe you also have a agency that relies on stem Talent so anything different than what Eric's doing uh so again slightly different turn of that Kaleidoscope so we do have the hard sciences that we need in the labs uh microbiologists chemists uh lab technicians uh science texts our biggest challenge is the same issue with the Aging Workforce we run about 325 to 400 retirements a year and most of our folks retire at eligibility plus four years so we kind of get them known ahead of time buffer and try and feel behind them in hopes of that knowledge transfer as far as occupations go the veterinarian occupation is really our biggest challenge we're the largest employer veterinarians in the United States there's only 28 schools in the country but uh along with that presence in the schools because they know about us we have the meloxic Scholars Program which caucus on fifteen thousand dollars a year tuition assistance while they're going to school they work for us either during breaks or during the summer towards that uh Doctorate of veterinary medicine uh we got a five thousand dollar a year for the first four-year recruitment incentive so they get 20K over four years you pay for their first move if it isn't where they're at right now maybe we need them in the Midwest and they'll be willing to go so we can pay for the move along with what I talked earlier about this student loan repayment program and uh on top of that the last big chunk are the hard to fill food inspector positions consumer safety inspectors they're the ones who are literally Hands-On in the plants trying to make sure the food is safe it's it's really critical to the public health that they're there and so we use a five thousand dollar recruitment incentive for new inspectors coming in and uh we're hoping that that at least influences some of the decision making while we provide the tutorials to get them to apply through the rigorous OPM USA Jobs process we use the pathways program for students one to Peak curiosity and also to help see if the it's a right fit does our mission does our value proposition resonate with them that they want to pursue a career in food safety you know I think it is important enough uh Public Health independent upon it and then in doing so we can get those students and eventually recent grads into the agency and convince others like them through the referral program to join them creating that community of food safety back to you great okay so I'm going to give Jacqueline one minute to wrap up with anything she hasn't said and I'll get all a minute I think it'll take us to the end of our clock so Jacqueline anything that you want to add that we haven't talked about already no I think that um both Joe and and Eric kind of summed it up I'll just say full Department of Education it should be no surprise that our primary focus is on Educators we want to bring in Educators but we also have a need for data scientists because this is a um educational research organization as well and um we do a lot of um Grant so those are the type of fields that we look for in Department education as well as our attorney to make me really happy because again we want to make sure that there's equality and access to education um globally thank you great thanks and Paul any final comments uh sure and I I just want to note that Kenzie is just coming up age and I suspect gen Z will change and and that means retention strategies for Gen Z could change um so so you know going forward I I think an overall recommendation if agencies want to develop retention strategies targeted to generational cohorts it's important to continue to do the research to not only look at feb's data but perhaps to focus groups spot surveys um and and talk to younger employees and and continue to find out what matters to them what they're looking for in a work environment and uh you know what what will help them remain with the agency in supporting your mission great thank you all it's a good way to close this out so I want to thank all our panel members today for engaging with us in fascinating and wide-ranging conversations uh I love it when we have our books discussion I learned a lot today and I'm sure already did as well a reminder that your questions will be answered offline uh we there are just a lot of really good questions we couldn't get to them all today and so I'm going to hand it back over to Fed insiders Claudia Husky for some final thoughts for audience you and for our audience thank you all so much for your participation today training certificates will be emailed after the webinar ends and remember to log back in in the next day or two to download a copy of our captioning transcript we have many webinars in the works so be sure to visit fedinsider.com to see what's coming up and to register for multiple webinars at the same time and while you're there you can check out our podcast feds at the edge and with that this is that Insider signing off