foreign we can kick off today's webinar you've got ux in my UI I'm Lauren Jankowski the VP of marketing here at Glide fast Consulting and I'll be moderating today's webinar before we begin I'd like to give you all some background information about Glide fast Glide fast is a consulting firm that is dedicated exclusively to servicenow as an elite servicenow partner our expert team of developers and Architects have worked on both sides of the table the customer side and the Consulting side our company was founded by servicenow Architects and we're proud to have a team of over 450 experienced Consultants we were named the 2022 America's Elite partner of the year and the global Elite segment partner of the year I'm excited to hand things over to our presenters for today we have Tim engstrom our UI ux media Glide fast and David Arbor an associate VP of Professional Services at glidefest I'll be monitoring the Q a throughout today's session so please send in any questions as they arise and we'll do our best to answer them hi I am team angstrom as Lauren said I'm the UI ux lead at Glide fast I am relatively new to servicenow but what I am bringing is my insight from over 25 years of experience and design from across a variety of Industries I've worked in finance Enterprise software agencies games health care and social media and what I've come to understand is how all these different user groups behave and respond in different ways so let's figure out how we can do that so today we're gonna figure out the differences between UI and ux kind of go through a little story and we'll make it really simple then we'll figure out how we can improve the ux and servicenow experiences and then David's going to talk to us a little bit about how technology and design have this interlocking marriage and we'll have plenty of time for questions and answers so feel free to drop those in the Q a as we go so starting off the confusing world of design back when I started there was just graphic design it was just one encompassing thing but over the years because of technology and philosophy and the way that we interact with each other things started to change so things fractured into like web design and print design and even into motion design we've got visual design brand design and it kept on going the more and more we introduce things like smartphones and tablets the more the industry became to be fractured and specialized but today we are just going to talk about UI and ux so what is UI or user interface the easiest thing I can say is that it is anything that a user can interact with absolutely anything so we can go into phones which is obvious computers fairly obvious doors doors are interface your dinner is an interface any software that you use can be an interface cars or an interface so if you think about that that's how we interact we are the user we're interfacing with something so if that's what that is what is the user experience I'm gonna get a little foofy and it's how the user feels when they're interacting with something I know I kind of feel like a like a cheap therapist so when you're using something I need to come up behind you and kind of say so how does that make you feel and that's truly what it is because feelings are what are actually going to bring value so let's look at a light bulb and a light switch it's a simple easy interaction that a user is going to have normally you're not going to have a feeling associated with that probably because you've been using it for so long you have these expectations that when you flip on that switch you're it's gonna come on now the feeling Associated it is actually going to be negative because sometimes you'll come in you'll flip on that switch and the Light May burst and it'll go into sudden Darkness you're going to be feeling a disappointment frustration maybe even fear so now you've got a negative connotation with this experience now on the other side when you go car shopping maybe you got a huge bonus you want to go buy a car you may think that you can be impartial about it but you're going to choose the car a lot on on how it looks and and can you see yourself inside it but when you actually go to the lot and you see that car sitting there you're going to walk up to it you're going to feel it you're going to touch you're going to feel those seams you're going to touch the car and the color it could excite you you start to get excited about it you open that car door you step inside the new car smell all of a sudden you're having an emotional reaction to this vehicle and what's happening is you're increasing the value in your eyes of that car you may end up paying more because you're eliciting this emotional response to this vehicle and that is a lot of what user experience is bringing to the table is done right it will increase the value through emotions or feelings so let's kind of give you an example I have a couple friends Brad and Shanna and they're hungry they're going to go on a snack run so Brad is going to go to his restaurant of choice his first encounter is going to be the door and I've encountered this so many times because doors are are kind of funny our brains will cue in based on what we see that we know it's a door but how the handles are placed where the door is the type of handle that it is is going to cue an expectation and regardless of what a sign will say on that door is we will reach for it and do something instinctually and sometimes the it's it's opposite of our expectations and it doesn't matter how many times you use that door your brain will always want to do that instinctual thing first so unfortunately Brad's starting off on a bad bad step Janna went over to her door went in just fine it met her expectations Brad realizes I can get points I can get rewards for for getting what I want so he goes onto his app and logs in oh it's an error we've all encountered errors so he's he's trying to figure it out okay well what's wrong I did something wrong it's probably my password I can't see it he has an error message so it just says please try again you have four tries remaining it's kind of ambiguous and yet at the same time a little bit threatening Shanna goes in and on her app she does the same exact error except the error message talks a little bit more human to her and addresses where she actually had the problem and you can see it just missing the dot before the calm so even though she had a problem because it was addressed in a human way in a kind way she was able to get past her error without really feeling bad about it great they get it to the counter they order french fries I love french fries I hope you all love french fries but they realized oh you can't have french fries without ketchup so they grabbed their french fries and they go over to the condiment counter Brad has a lovely glass bottle of Heinz Ketchup Shannon goes over to hers and there's a plastic bottle of Heinz Ketchup two same products but different um for their experience now this is kind of funny because we're getting into sort of meta ux and we actually have a product within a product that could possibly have a different experience now there's some interesting things about the the Heinz bottles um the glass bottle original based a lot on quality people think that being in a glass bottle is going to be nicer but people don't tend to know how to use it so they slap the bottom of it they'll shove knives up and try to get the ketchup come out the new user experience that they created is a bottle that when you pick up it feels like it's it should be squeezed the cap is on the bottom so it the ketchup's already there it makes it so much easier it's much more intuitive the funny thing is is that there is an interaction you can do with the glass bottle that would make it easier they just didn't tell you about it there's a little raised 57 on that bottle if you hold the bottle at a 45 degree angle tap on that little 57 the ketchup will actually come out fairly easy maybe not as easy as the plastic bottle but it's not something that they told us they kind of have a hidden user experience which you never want to do so Brad works on getting his ketchup out of the bottle and has a little bit of problem Shannon immediately gets her ketchup puts on the french fries exactly like she wants it so in the end they end up with the same product they both have their french fries they both had an add-on of ketchup but if we look at the overall experience Brad may come out feeling kind of sad maybe a little bit depressed it's hard to say it's all these little tiny triggers that have a negative connotation are going to affect the value of the product that he chose he may not want to come back because he doesn't want to go through that experience again he may not want to tell his friends about it or worse he could tell his friends to stay away from there Shanna on the other hand had a great experience even though she had a hurdle that she had to get over it really was rectified in a way that addressed her needs that she could fix quickly and move on to get what she really wanted so if we were to break it on down if you have a product you're gonna have user interactions in the way of that product whether they're the doors the app the catch up anything that you have and then you're going to have your experience and you should always be asking yourselves questions about your interactions is it easy to use how was the login how do you address errors and how easy was it to access add-ons so if we keep in mind that every interaction has an experience regardless of if you intend them to have an experience they are already there so a user experience designer is there to help control that or to influence it that's really the fun part is to create that sort of hero's journey as we want to guide the user Along on this path to where they feel success in themselves they feel like this was a journey they took and they meant to get there but at the same point it helps guide your business to success and that is the really key is that marriage of user and business requirements that business success that that Journey that you want them to take and we call that uh the designed experience which is a purposefully created servicenow portal that works for you so engaging your users it's all about intention so now you may be familiar with the service portal or employee Center we love working with servicenow we love their portals we love their employee centers but we like to look at them as Frameworks or templates these are great ways to get started because they're so robust they have so much they can bring to the table whether they're bringing you know all your HR it everything together for your users or you're creating a customer service portal to help with incidences or catalog systems it's just so much to work with but does it reflect you does it reflect your company does this really speak to your users and that's really what we want to get into is how do we go from here to something that a user can really be comfortable with that is excited to use that wants to talk about it that that feels like yes I can go there and get my answers and it's just going to be great well we can start with your brand guidelines I'm sure you all have brand books or you're familiar with them and they address the personality of your company what what your company likes to wear how they like to present themselves the the imagery the fonts it's it's what your company is visually and this is easy enough we can go into a service portal or employee Center and we can we can dress it up we can add colors we can change your fonts we can change your icons but in in the end all we're really doing is is making it a little bit closer to your brand and is it still closer to your brand or is it just a lightly skinned servicenow portal you can kind of really see that the bones are there but we really want to take it to the next level because we're still really not talking to the user we're at this point we're just addressing basic business goals and that's just your brand so the next step is well we really need to get to understand your users and this is really important we need to find that that empathy and building personas is a great way to do it it's personas are an aggregate of your user base when we build them out there's a combination of one or two that really come close to representing who your users are and we can use this as the filter for all decisions that we make and once we have these built out then we can go and we can start looking at the ux principles that are out there there's about 20 of them that I like to leverage there's also gamification techniques I have a huge I I lean a lot into octalysis which is a huge webbed framework of different triggers that you can use to create delight and repeat visitation engagement foreign so once we have this and we start filtering it through it's like how do we elevate it to the next level this is sort of my example not any particular business it's based off of the little brand guidelines we saw earlier but what I'm doing here is creating something that is a bit more user-centric it's a little bit more inviting I'm trying to bring in the brand imagery really access the colors and really create a map that will drive the user through it so let's let's take a look at this a little bit so what we have here is we're prioritizing things for what the user would want to see things that may be of of importance to them whether it's accessing their benefits and their paycheck or events but really leveraging what came out of the persona we like to have things that are are accessible from the user's point of view maybe having their favorites up top is great but they don't need to see it all the time but they need to know what's there so giving them control to open and close and create an experience that is uniquely theirs is great in creating a space for them to see where actions are happening whether it's stuff that they need to do or it's stuff that they want to do or they're getting responses it's it's great to have something that they can quickly get to and move on bringing up events that are a combination of what a user wants to see like holidays or special events and intermixing them with with business ones so that they have that relationship of it's not all business on here it's stuff that really pertains to me or where I find my interest I have interesting campaigns and actually pulling them down a little bit lower can really help Drive the user through the portal knowing that there's content down here that is fresh that it keeps changing that this is where they want to start to go and we don't like to be afraid of white space white space is great it helps to keep the user engaged a little bit more to help them refresh their mind as they're flowing through as opposed to overloading them with just content after content after content and we like to add a little bit of Whimsy in there just to you know Aid and bringing in a little bit of Joy because Joy is always good I like to think that when we design portals there's a little bit of delight in each and every one of them another important aspect is to really create an ownership we like to to bring forward the user maybe just even increasing their their portrait image so it has a larger presence so it feels like they're really a part of this this is their place this is where they can live within this community little things like this really help to shine to really bring the user forward to engage with them and to create that space where they feel comfortable and want to succeed and that is the real goal if they're succeeding here then they're succeeding for your business they're doing the things that you would really like them to do that will help you and help them but what can a portal look like it can look like pretty much anything sky's the limit it all really depends on your business your brand who your users are how far you want to take it what kind of message you want to say where do you want to go but the real question I think that comes to mind is is there really any value in ux especially from a business point of view this is where it gets really fun for every dollar invested in ux brings a return of a hundred dollars and yes I did the math several times because that's like really 9900 percent that that is that is correct now if we just use the user interface and we make it nice and pretty we can get a conversion rate which isn't any action you want your user to take we can get it up to about 200 just by making your site look good but if we improve the ux of the website we can jump that as high as 400 percent so we're taking just the aesthetic portion and we're adding that usability to it to really double what we want it to do I mean customers are willing to pay more for the experience they say that the experience is just as important as its products and services and then this is always great I love this is that 72 almost three quarters of the customers or users will talk about it and that is huge if you get people really being an advocate for you I think that's really what you want are those user evangelists but there is a cost and the cost is having a tight relationship between designer and technologist or developer this is where I'm going to hand it off to David and he can talk about how design and Technology work hand in hand thanks Tim uh yeah so as stated at the beginning my name is David Arbor I'm an associate VP of Professional Services Glide fast Consulting but I'm also a senior architect I've been in the platform uh for years now doing uh building portals and Building Things all over the platform so I'm still in the day-to-day grind uh building amazing experiences I'm not uh even though that title may say I'm not actually doing the work I'm doing the work so I'm going to talk to you a little bit about all the stuff that Tim has been talking about and how it translates over to actual development in the platform I far less slides than Tim because this is you know this was all about the UI ux experience but we wanted to make sure we connected those things at the end of the presentation so yeah so I have a few slides here so first I want to talk about uh you know generally speaking obviously not speaking about all developers here but uh I can speak for myself for sure I mean most developers are not designers and I'm definitely not a designer so I I'm very good at going out and uh you know building things that I've already seen before you know maybe the latest and greatest that I'm seeing on some sites I'll I'm really good at building those things and uh you know adding the CSS and HTML to make those things look exactly as they do uh in in the site I may be trying to replicate but I'm not the one that actually comes up with new and Innovative things for uh for UI or ux and on how to you know really bring a better user experience to the user so that's one of the things that we learned from Tim early on here in this this presentation is that ux and UI are not the same thing uh whereas you know UI is the the look and feel and ux is the experience from the from the user the feel that the user gets yeah glidefest designers work with developers uh to ensure the ux and UI work perfectly together and there's a workflow to it which we'll go over here in the next slide this is a worthless it's a that we use at Glide fast a summarized version um but to give you the general idea of how we do this designers generally will work with the customer in a workshop maybe it's more than one Workshop it all depends on the needs of the customer but they'll work with the customer in a workshop uh and the result of that Workshop will be mock-ups typically a few mock-ups um that sort of give them an idea of what we can do based on the the requirements that we've gathered as part of that workshop and the actual process for talking them through that and you know actually walking through a workshop is is different depending on what type of portal they're wanting to implement what products they're trying to implement but generally it's asking them about like Tim had mentioned personas and asking about their users and asking about the experiences their users currently have and where their pain points are all those different points but ultimately what comes out of that is a few mock-ups we mock up in an application outside of service now and Adobe XD which allows us to do things very quick and quickly right we can mock up very quickly we can make changes very quickly on the fly in front of the customer uh which really allows us to to you know be very agile with our designs so after that first step after we've created those mock-ups customer comes back uh we you know we show them the the designs they come back and tell us which one they like the best and we also do an interactive uh sort of play with the uh the mock-up at that point and change things on the Fly that the user may want to change I mean the customer may want to change um finally what we're trying to get to there is the final sign off right final mock-up to say yes the customer says this is what they want this is what we're going to build um and this is the design we're going to start building towards right which at that point designers pass that mock-up on to the developers so they can actually begin the development um and it's important to note here that as this project goes on as this effort goes on developers and designers are constantly collaborating um and Tim and I are working on a couple of projects right now together where I can tell you I'm hitting him up on slack constantly like hey we forgot about this one little thing can you tell me what you want to do for this from a design perspective and then I'll go and build that um so it's definitely a collaborative thing uh constant throughout that uh the development process so this is an example mock-up so this is what I'm talking about so this is not servicenow but this is a mock-up that's done in uh XD to show a customer what can be done based on their needs and this was not a real customer this is one that we created for actually an exercise that was internal this is the front page of the portal for this customer as you can see it's got the you know obviously they're big on brandings they've got a giant snack there in the top left which is their their header of their their portal um and this is their front page so it's got uh you know sort of their mission statement there on the front and allows them to go wherever they want to go from that front page and this one is more about um you know I think this is a knowledge one actually if I'm not mistaken when they go into to read their knowledge articles um just a different look and feel than what you're what you would expect from servicenow and then we have a form here right and this is typical where we would come up with a few uh designs like this that show completely different areas of the platform that you're going to um that we're going to build in that portal so the customer really gets an idea it's like if we never showed them a form what a form might look like on this uh in this portal uh then they may come as a complete surprise to them if we hadn't showed them hey look you know your users are going to interact with forms all the time so this is what we envision your forms are going to look like so we try and cover all those bases in that mock-up stage so talking about real quick the advantages of using mock-ups ultimately right as a developer speaking from a development perspective this is much easier to work with than actually you know working through stories that may just tell me what what what the the portal wants to look like or the customer wants the portal to look like um and it becomes a graphical representation of those requirements for the customer so it makes it easier on the customer again for the approving process and it makes it easier on the Developers because I can go over and I can see exactly what colors we're we're setting the mock up I can see the spacing I can see the fonts I can see everything that I need to see you know right there in that snapshot um without having to dig real deep okay uh so essentially that takes the guesswork out of uh ux and UI development and again you know you're still doing this in Sprints you're still doing this and bringing it back to the customer and letting the customer see it in regular intervals so we can make sure we make adjustments as we go uh we don't mean to say that this is you know your design is your design things do change which is the the point of Agile development things do change along the process overall this reduces total time from design conception to go live um which does in turn reduce overall costs again guesswork is is going to take time and the more we can get nailed down as part of the design process and actually have that developer build then the the savings go to the customer that we're working with another perk of this is that we can save that XD file and use it later for something you know think about uh industry verticals uh if if we have we're working with a Healthcare Company um they're likely going to have some elements that are uh common among all healthcare companies maybe not all but you know a portion of those Healthcare companies um and so one of the things that we can do is take our designs that we've done in an industry vertical and save that out and then you know reuse that at a later time with changing obviously branding and you know maybe like like Tim added some Whimsy and one of the ones that he showed before so it we may get a feel for that customer that customer may want a little more Whimsy or a little less Whimsy point is we can we can mop things up much quicker over time as we build these these mock-ups for for customers so that's all I've got pretty much but I did want to end this um with a quote from Charles Eames and Charles Eames is a famous designer architect uh he did architectural design and Furniture Design back in the day I don't know exactly how long ago uh the his his quote here is that the details are not the details they make the design um and I just I wanted to bring this up because this couldn't be more true you know I've again I've done web develop in full stack development for a very long time not a designer but I I understand the attention to detail and how if if a padding or a margin is off in one place in the in the platform it can it can almost ruin the whole thing right in a website you can almost ruin the whole whole experience because why didn't they pay attention to that little thing right um because that's the details right it's the details here that really do make everything and one thing that we do at bypass Consulting is uh absolutely pay attention to those details and make sure our designs uh go out with every attention to detail possible um I also want to show you on the next slide here if you're ready Tim we do have a demo portal that everyone is free to go check out if you would like um that is the site at the bottom so gladhits.servicenow.com GH this is our demo portal that shows some of the work that we've done uh not by industry vertical but by uh the the modules in the platform so we have CS you know customer service portals HR portals uh employee Center itsm uh things like that so feel free to go check that out it actually States on there what the complexity of uh each portal would have been as well where complexity of one star maybe uh you know an easy branding and a few slight changes and the complexity of three stars may be a completely custom portal with custom widgets but yeah that that's what we have uh to show everyone and we're going to open it up to uh questions and answers after this Lauren did you want to take it from there yeah so I have seen some questions coming in so I know our first one came up about um around slide 25 26 I think Tim had some examples of actual portals on the screen so someone wanted to know um is this a custom portal a servicenow service portal or an employee portal um any insight to that that is based off of an employee Center portal awesome hope that helps yeah yeah perfect that answers the question and then um here's another one so in your experience where should the designer be creating the mock-up well the designer should be talking about right yeah we use x Adobe XD here which is great because it's part of the uh Adobe Creative Suite um but there are others there's uh figma which is really big in the design industry but that just got purchased by Adobe so I don't know what's going to happen with that there's xure there's a whole lot of them out there it's for the most part whatever your designer is comfortable with that translates well over to the developer site because that's what David was talking about that whole relationship between designer and developer is Paramount XD has some great tools that when you when I send it over to to David when we're working together it has a side panel that has some great developer tools on there so he can see colors and svgs and padding and all that all sorts of stuff that he could use helpful getting a designed experience well actually my favorite tool is not a software tool at all it's what I call my petulant three-year-old child inside of me and I love to ask the question why um like when a client says we really need this button up here I like to ask why um I I like to have the reasoning behind why we're doing something and this is a question I ask myself constantly as I'm doing Concepts too and and I I ask it of other designers and developers that if I can get the reason behind why something needs to be there it makes a lot of sense but it also puts that purpose there that intent that I'm putting that button there for a reason and it makes things stronger when I mean if I if I work with you and you're a client ask me why I did something I will always have an answer intentionality lots of questions coming in um here's another from a tech design perspective do you limit yourself with out of the box Widgets or take it to the next level based on business requirements I can answer that one uh yeah so that really depends right um we try to stay out of the box on these widgets as much as we possibly can uh just applying styling where we can but obviously sometimes the customer is going to want something that's structured differently than what we can do with uh with CSS with simple styling and we do have to actually create a widget if we're going to create a widget clone a widget and actually customize a widget we want the customer to always understand that that customization comes with a price over time right there's maintenance costs that come with that uh there's the fact that in your next upgrade your you that that may get skipped or likely will get skipped as an upgrade if servicenow has changed something so it's something that they're gonna have to keep an eye on um at you know through the life of their uh their portal but we have the capability to build I tell every customer uh whenever they ask me if something's possible in the borderline say anything is possible if you can dream it we can build it it's a matter of trade-off as to whether that is you know something that you need for your business needs or if it's something that you're just doing because you want to do it we probably need to you know talk about that and you know think about the best Best Way Forward another one rule or Direction when you have multiple types of personas in the company how do you satisfy all different personas in one single employee portal that's a great question that's a design question for you Tim that is a design question that that is a lot of personas um I would actually recommend that you get that down to a maximum of three but it is possible to I guess juggle the the seven different types of personas that you have it's just you just really have to get in their mind and realize that not everything is going to work for everyone under those scenarios and you just kind of want to do your best to manage it without watering it down too much what does your process look When developing good ux um a lot of my process like the first 90 of it is almost just working with a client asking questions I really like to get into the head of your business your your leaders the stakeholders um I like to ask them about their users what their users are expecting what how they walk through any current processes they have any problems that they have and the more information I can get up front as far as user personas all these questions then they can really start down applying the brand to the employee Center or the service portal whatever they want to build out and just ideating and constantly asking myself these why questions and creating that hero flow of we know what the business requirements are this is what success looks like for the business how do I get the user there keep them happy keep them engaged and just just concept uh I think you would be amazed at the number of Concepts I throw away before I come to a client with three concepts that I am proud of that's a good point very good point awesome here's another question that does come up a lot as well um how long does this process usually take from design to go live yeah I I can speak probably to that uh pretty well so again that depends right depends on what we're we're taking on um how custom that that uh site is going to be how custom that portal is going to be uh what's in scope you know is this an employee Center where we have HR itsm and you know uh other areas is it the CSM whatever it may be um it really depends I would say uh you know work shopping for uh the actual design process is usually done in a few hours you know about a week later we typically have um those mock-ups over to the customer and then a week after that we typically have that final uh all set set out and we're beginning to develop and you know it's typically three or four Sprints so probably talking six to eight weeks after that where things are are developed and ready to go but again that's typical that's not uh that's not every case by any means there are exceptions to that what are some challenges when creating a design experience I think that a lot of the big challenges is getting the clients or the stakeholders to get out of their own head and realize that we're building this for somebody else to use but we want those users to meet their business requirements and a lot of times opinions come in and that's why I like to ask the why I've actually had a client at one point um I don't want to say who it was a long time ago at a different Ad Agency and they said we don't like that color purple it represents something that we don't like foreign but it made no sense to us because their reasoning was was flawed I I don't even want to get into the well why they didn't like that color but it was aimed at a very young audience and their demographic screamed used purple so there was a huge disconnect and a lot of there's this conversation behind are we addressing are we filtering through the personas are we using that properly are we realizing that this is for them to succeed and meet your business goals not for you to be happy with how the design looks so there's a making sure we communicate that correctly and really address that and know coming into it that who we're making this for that that's a good point too to add to that sorry I know one of the things that we do often when talking with customers is ask for user input user surveys uh to really understand how the users use the portal um because a lot of times we'll have stakeholders in meetings with this and that stakeholder may not be a typical user of that that site um so it really is important that we get those personas and we get some feedback from users if at the end of the day you want that portal to be the best user experience possible well here's a good question coming off that one once a portal is launched what metrics or indicators over time do you look at to evaluate how successful the design is that's a great question yeah I think I can take this one so there is the newer uh analytics in servicenow Portal analytics that allows you to see from as a customer who's using my portal how they're using it there's all sorts of metrics there for them to pull from if the question is more from our perspective we we try to continue our relationship with our customers throughout you know into the future so that we can talk to them again uh in the future to ask how their user adoption has been uh to ensure that you know what we've implemented for them has been a success and you know it is a uh that's something that takes a long time right it's not something that we get immediate gratification from our immediate responses from to say oh yeah we did this great job a lot of times we're following up six months nine months later uh just to ensure that that what we've built has uh you know met all of the needs of that customer so from our our perspective that's how we handle it I think from a customer's perspective they have tools at service now is now built for you you in that portal Analytics so the building of being an employee Center but what about UI Builder does this same process apply to UI Builder yeah that's another great question um yeah it does it does in a sense uh UI Builder obviously is uh for those who do know is is the newer uh way to build uh UI experiences in servicenow that's not portal so it's not angularjs based it's it's based on a proprietary servicenow um uh technology um and it's still fairly new I you know just to be honest the skill set's not there with everyone to build that quickly just yet and there's no there's not really parity between the two uh between the UI Builder and um service portal and employee Center at this point so we absolutely can do this in UI Builder but again the process is going to be different um not not the design process the design process is always going to be the same um but the process of building it's going to be a little bit different right the designs and build simply because that again it's a newer technology that we're we're dealing with here yeah and someone just asked Can you mix portal and UI Builder uh so you I mean that's a a question that's a technical question um you can from what I understand so UI Builder is a completely different technology so you're not going to have the two things working completely together um but you can certainly uh host things from Portal in iframes and whatnot within within UI Builder as far as I understand that you know it doesn't allow that you know things don't communicate right between the two systems because they're completely different Technologies um but there are ways that you can get pieces from the portal into UI Builder um what is a bad design practice you see happening on servicenow portals yeah servicenow is great they give you all these wonderful widgets that you can put on the on the front page and make it just really Compact and I think that's it's a it's a philosophy I like to refer to as kitchen sinking it's like when you throw the kitchen sink at it you're throwing everything there and you just want access to everything on the front page and to me that just causes so much cognitive overload for the user that they almost get decision paralysis and don't know what to do so to me that it just is hard it's hard to simplify it sometimes it's easy to create something complex but how do you make it simple how do you remove things how do you pull things back and make them just a click through you know creating a path clicks are not bad over clicking is bad but um do not kitchen sink please that goes back to everything have an intention and you know one of the other things to bring up here is that the the original service portal for servicenow is meant to be an example service portal not necessarily A default service portal and there is a difference there right what ends up happening a lot what ended up happening a lot in the development of portals in the past is that uh that was sort of seen as the default and the starting point for everything uh when in fact it was intended to be more of an example so the designed experience walks you through uh you know building things from scratch building things without that scaffold to begin with right Tim Tim and his team come at this from uh an angle of let's find out what you need rather than let's compare what you think you need to what's the out of the box portal looks like which ends up getting us to a much better product at the end of the day I think you kind of just touched on this last question here um when you build a portal for a customer are all of the widgets custom or do you stick with out of the box appointments yeah I did touch that one already yeah so again when we can uh we stick with out of the box obviously that's always Our advice in every area of the platform but business needs sometimes Drive customizations and when we have to do that we do it carefully and we do it uh you know after informing the customer completely of the risks awesome well thanks guys I think the audience just grilled you with some good questions so that was great and if anyone has any more questions feel free to um send them over to info glidefest.com or if you'd like to reach out to Tim or David personally it's their first dot last name at glidefest.com all right and that's all the time we have for today thank you for everyone for attending today's webinar we hope you enjoyed it thank you to Tim and David for that awesome presentation everyone will be receiving a recording of today's webinar and it will also be posted on the Glide fast YouTube channel to see more sessions just like today's visit our website or YouTube channel and if you have any more questions reach out to us at info glidefast.com thank you and enjoy the rest of your day foreign [Music]