[Music] oh boy chuck was dancing a little bit too much to that that's awesome i you know every time i hear that it's like it's the phx dev show with your host mark scott you just have to i'm gonna do that for you so you can put the voiceover in there when i'm not around so there might there may be a surprise next week i'm just saying i might have a surprise next week for you that is so late night talk show music i love it that's it when it comes to branding a podcast or a video stream or something the music sets the tone i've known that for years our technorama podcast has been going since 2005 with the same same music since about 2006. and it when you hear that you just sort of get in the mood you're in the i mean it sets you up yeah it's like now i'm ready to go that that that persona is on yeah absolutely and you know what's funny because you you'd said this check um you know it sounds like a late night talk show i'm like you get it you get what yeah like yes well well done on the branding my friend well yeah all right good good good well what's funny we jumped right into it no intros right so welcome everybody my name's mark scott i am the host of the phoenix dev show um which is coincidentally the show that you're watching um joining me tonight i've got my friend jase benson hello glad to be here all right and down below in the bottom there we've got chuck tamasi hey everybody how's it going as if you didn't know who checked out friday night hey not everybody does so you know we give we give the intro if you're watching my show i hope you know who chuck is because well they do now the only reason he invites me is to get more viewers on his show now you got it it's it's it's to get joe ideas music and chuck chuck's name tagged into every single episode absolutely you know if if the karma trains are running i'm i'm i'm hopping on it so it's friday night friday night yeah i've got i've i've got a beer it's it's the end of the week jase jason's just told me he had a very long week this week himself i'm i'm happy to be hanging out with my friends like this is great but of course we i have i have a topic like we have to talk about a topic but i've been trying to but i'm like how do i how do i keep like the topic but make it fun like at the same time so i'm like all right we've got to have some like like roll in but we were all talking and dancing and everything i totally just got thrown off so that's the best kind that's the best kind it's the it's the random kind right so it's the organic ones yeah absolutely um well that's a terrible segue that's a terrible segue into note-taking um which i think you know first of all let's let's just let's talk about note-taking right i want to talk about what what the difference is between professional note-taking and academic note-taking because i know there are a lot of people out there that are just getting started in their career i'm i'm trying to target they're early in career folks right so there's a difference between when you get out of school and you take notes and when you when you're actually in a job taking notes there's a long time since i was in school well i wasn't going to point it out but a few of us we're a little long in the tooth a little long in the beard or gray in the beard if you want to say that but you know i i remember i remember taking notes distinctly very differently in school and what they taught us in school was very different than what i actually needed in the job so i remember mine is a lot of copying whatever they wrote on the board you wrote in your notebook exactly that's true so let's let's let's let's dive into it because that's exactly what i wanted to bring up right now i wish i just had a smartphone back there go click done done done and that's the difference except accept except when you write it it makes a stronger connection in your brain even if someone else is saying it and writing it if you write it down even though you're just going man like robotic copying right it will it will stick better so there you go if you just took a picture and went okay right you're not going to remember that although although i you one could say i'm not i'm not advocating for this one could say if you didn't have to focus on your writing you could focus on what was being said you could really you know listen to what was being said yeah and and that's i think so so pulling that back right to the academ like i i don't when i'm taking notes professionally right i'm not trying to um write every single thing down right it's not i'm not trying to take notes of every single thing that every single person is saying that to me that's the big difference between academic and professional note-taking i'm only there's like categories of notes sure sure i mean absolutely if you're a project manager and you need to know you know exactly what's going on in the scrum meeting like you're going to take notes for everything that's being said right but but as a developer as a technical person or if i'm in a technical meeting or a design meeting i'm only going to take notes for the things that are important to me i don't need to take notes for every single other person in the room because i'm not going to share those notes with every single person in the room because most of the time it's chicken scratch anyway but unless you're the facilitator and you're expecting or the note taker the note taker there are meetings where you have a role as a notetaker and you've got to be capturing in a little different level right and that's generally called out which i think is really awesome right when someone says who wants to be scribe right and then usually someone raises their hand and they're just in corner writing right and that's that's that's great or typing or typing typing typing works too right if you're doing subscribe that works but but i i do want to make that distinction right there is that you know if if you're generally in a meeting and you're taking notes you're you tend to take notes on your own it's for your own purposes it's for your own reference you're gonna go back and you know if if and this is this is for why i take notes because i hate taking notes like if my boss goes back and asks me a question i want to be able to refer back to something it isn't it isn't for everyone else's um you know viewpoint right you're not trying to make sure that everyone has oh well you know there there's there's there's this fact and then these things about that fact it's like no it's just what you are working on whatever you find pertinent that's what i'm noticing glad i'm not the only one who sits in meetings when you know eighty percent of it is just going in one ear and out the other like this isn't my topic this is i'm not the audience i'm gonna wait for them to say something that i care about right right and that's right you know go ahead jase oh yeah i mean if they're not saying anything you need to take action on later like either following up or a task that you need to do or something you need the research generally like i don't take that note yeah it may be important for the future as well right hey we're looking to add a team member so make a note of that you know right you may you may have friends who fit that role or whatever you know it's important to you so you got to be always have that that that sort of radar on to go blip there's one that i should take a note on so if it's important to you or you think it might be important to you later write it down jot it down you don't have to use the note later it's not important that you didn't use that note down right and and if you're just starting out overtake notes you can't anytime you're new to a role i do that like i'm just writing things be and you know if 90 of it is garbage i'll find out what i can filter later but it's better to have it and not use it than not have that and need it exactly exactly and that's to me that's the big like for for notes and note-taking especially the it's the the have it and not need it right i'd rather have it and not need it because at the end of the day i can throw the paper away it's cheap i can you know get a new notebook whatever it is but if i forget something it's a problem let's talk about the tech in a little bit yeah let's let's let's so let's get into that right like so here's the the tools for taking notes so i gotta switch my slide because i'm using slide stay tools the tools for taking notes right like what do you guys like to use i'll tell you what i like to use and how i like to do it chuck i know some of yours right i know i know the remarkable tablets coming up and that's that's on my like christmas list i want one of them i've done the jace thing too for years and years and years people think oh trucks is high-tech guy i have done high-tech i can type faster than i can write and i can read my typing later which isn't always the case with handwriting like was i having a seizure here i'm not sure but the there's and and plus you know electronic people say hey it's searchable right you can always do a command f or control f and find whatever you're looking for if you can spell there are drawbacks though there are drawbacks i mean yes electronic note-taking has a lot of advantages sure searchability tag ability organization and folders and whatnot right but in my mind as soon as you open up a laptop in a meeting it's over it's over it's over because you the perception whether it's true or not the perception is you're not engaged you're screwing around you you're checking linkedin or slack or something you know you're not participating there's something there's a stigma about that laptop being open that is just a liability that i refuse to engage well let's let's let's make sure because i i want to make sure like i i've got a great story about this right like you go into a client meeting the client's sitting there telling you all this stuff the ceo's sitting there and then there's someone over there doing this that's all you hear if it's not there if it's not their admin assistant they're they're losing points at this point i did it i did it once i did it once where i was sitting there and and the ceo made one comment he said one thing he was like oh mark's over there writing it already and i was like oh man oh hold on you know what my mistake was like oh immediately knew what my mistake was like oh man you know and and and i'll you know dieter gable who was who was he's he was the ceo at the time of uh tv consulting right like it just i i could i did her like somehow if you're watching this right like like it was the best wake-up call you ever gave me without actually making me feel like terrible about myself so thank you about that but like you know don't be that god no don't be that guy don't be that person don't don't be in there yeah yeah don't don't don't be sitting there clacking away like whatever like it's it's not worth it so we've made that like laptops are out like completely like don't take notes on a laptop it's terrible so jace i know you like handwritten notes on an action wait wait wait wait wait wait wait i want to qualify that a little further don't use a laptop for taking notes when you're with other people if you're watching a series of videos for example it's like hey i'm watching chuck's javascript series and i want to take notes type away i'm not going to crucify you because that stuff was recorded in 2019 yeah yeah and i mean even even i i would argue sometimes in sometimes in a zoom meeting you can get away with it sometimes right because people don't really see like as long as you're making eye contact yeah i'm finding more and more that the cameras are on and if the camera is on top of your monitor and you're looking down at your laptop i know what you're doing mm-hmm yeah you're not you're not engaged you're not focused pay attention to me come on give me that that eye contact as if we were in real person here to the point where like when i like i wear glasses you guys can see the reflection a little bit in my glasses like like i freak out when like i switch tabs like it's like i know i'm in a zoom meeting and i switch tabs and you can see it like you guys ever seen with a glare on someone's eyes change a little bit you're like oh you're screwing around i know what you're all suddenly gets very blue yeah yeah something changes everyone knows it it's like oh ho ho i don't know maybe not dancing dancing cats going across his eyes yeah you might as well you might as well have just turned off the meeting because that person just if it was like tv you would see the entire projection on your face but we all know that's not possible exactly exactly all right so jace jace you like to physically write notes i'm i'm in that category too i know chuck's kind of in that category in a way so i go back and forth okay all right so i'm not always on paper notes and i'm not always on digital notes but if i write it down on paper like there's no question about where i'm what i need to do with it like i don't have to put it in a folder it's just attached to the to the binder right like there's no organizing it there's nothing like that you just gotta deal with it later yeah oh so i want to bring up a point about that because this is what actually got me away from paper notes i kept those notes for years right because i didn't know i had no i'm like maybe a client will come back right i'll get someone else from like years and years and years ago it never happened but you gotta deal with the note eventually something with it you have to do something with it and that was the problem like i had i had so many rules i couldn't tear a page out of that note but like someone would be like can i borrow a piece of paper like no like i because i was i was afraid i was afraid that i had lost a note like have you ever like you're like what did i take out of here like i don't know what i took out of here right like i was that it like it was bad it was bad i i was terrible in meetings with some of that stuff so all right sorry i killed i killed the moment um that's okay so i i take paper notes sometimes it's really helpful for me to remember what i wrote down when i'm writing paper notes it's not as important what i actually write down it's the act of writing it down the act of writing it yeah it's that first i don't know why something about writing it with your fingers makes your brain remember it it's i either do it with pen and paper or i write it in like a note-taking app like obsidian ocean or whatever yep and then people have their own opinions about organizing that stuff and that's a whole other discussion yeah that i mean that could be an episode in itself just how you organize that kind of stuff because it's it's it's very personal but yeah i don't i don't even want to get into necessarily how we organize that stuff but chuck you've got you've got the remarkable tablet as far as i know it's pretty cool nah so i i do i've been an evernote user for about 12 years okay before that you know various whatever uh but i started with evernote right before i started with servicenow i remember that because i i it was in that in between jobs time of a few weeks that i i signed up and got evernote and i think i imported a few things from other note-taking systems and i thought this is great i love the integrations you've got you know you can mail you can forward an email and it's a note in evernote you can tag them i use more tags than folders again we're not going to get into the organization thing but um that's the stuff i use if i need it searchable if it's referenceable that's sort of my reference library if chase put something up cool on on you know a slack channel or a blog post or something and i want to save that i'm going to save that in evernote because i can always go back and search and go what was that servicenow property that corey told me about five years ago to turn this weird thing on and boom there it is i mean i didn't you don't have the elephant the memory of an elephant i have i know and that's the reason why i keep it in evernote is because i don't need to i don't want to remember that i want to free my brain up to be more creative there was a case where tyler jones you probably don't remember tyler jones he was a big ui guy uh came from byu went somewhere else about five years ago i think it was and uh i had told him i said wait a minute how is it that we're switching between can you still get to ui 11. i mean this was about 2016. i said well you still get the ui 11. and he said yeah if you do assist parm doctor sysparm under device equals blah and i i had to do a screenshot this week for our keynote next week and they wanted something that looked really old i said oh i can do that right right i hacked the url and up comes ui 11. good done and done uh but i had to reference evernote and this stuff was still out there which is great uh but that's that's what i use i know evernote has checklists and reminders and i don't use it it's my offline brain it's my reference library of what i need it's in the cloud so if i'm you know at church on their computer i can still pull it up and use it two factor two factor two factor two factor there's yeah all day long okay so make sure you're secure kids but for the daily note taking for the day-to-day operations i've got five meetings this today i will look at my calendar in the morning and go what am i up against i got an 8 o'clock with these people i got a 10 o'clock with these people i got a 10 30 with these people and i have like you said i've got the remarkable i got it when it was first being introduced uh they were on special allocation blah blah blah blah blah and and part of the challenge of this is the organization piece i'm actually again i'm not going to get into that but i have a monthly uh notepad that i used i just started a new one for may and i put down all of my things now i am a big icon guy i have been doing check boxes with drop shadows for about 20 years yeah because they pop off the page for right right and then i started realizing well i want to see what what's related to an appointment so i know you can't see real well on the camera but i've got calendars meaning this is a this is a meeting there's a little thumb with a string around it a finger with a string around it here to remind myself okay so i do iconography and i have a whole series of icons listed right here on the right hand side that i can just copy and paste a check mark an email envelope uh oh an hourglass to let me know i'm waiting for something on somebody so a lot of a lot of symbolism that i can just glance at later but i don't have to even spend a few seconds even trying to draw a checkbox copy paste there's a task that i need to come back to then i review that later in the day what's not checked off the next day from yesterday kind of that franklin planner mentality and if it really needs to be put in the the holy grail of task managers is todoist so evernote for my memory todoist for tasks and you're never going to remember this you know chuck you're never going to remember this when it's time to do this thing you know a week from tuesday after knowledge is over like yeah good luck with that i'm not scrolling back to the previous month and what day did i write that down it goes into doist and i'll just instead of a x through the checkbox i use an arrow to indicate that it's been forwarded to deduction i can glance at it and my brain goes you've taken care of that now if something isn't done over the next couple days so a lot of a lot of symbolism in there but a lot of handwriting so again it's it's a cognitive wired in thing to know what's important to me uh and then i i could go on all day about the device itself like hey we're going to see sydney i'm going to sydney with my wife in a couple of weeks let's load up a couple of uh uh crossword puzzles that we can do in the airport or on the plane okay so i can load those up as a pdf right from the browser i go print to remarkable boom it shows up on the device and then of course you can write on it and erase it and you know all kinds of fun like that so very versatile device in terms of that but the the note-taking itself i've really really enjoyed this i've had it for about 18 months and i've used maybe 15 of the storage wow wow okay and because i was an early adopter they gave me like a lifetime subscription to their um subscription policy they if you you got to have their connect package if you want to connect to google drive onenote dropbox that kind of thing they they continue to make enhancements which which i'm not trying to be a commercial for this device but if you're interested i've got a promo code for you to save a few bucks yeah let me know because i've been looking at them i've been looking at it for years like it's thin it's light i mean look at it it's it's thinner than the stylus itself yeah and is it i'm i'm really liking it do you get the same kind of friction from like that oh yeah that's their claim to fame is it feels and sounds like paper wow okay i had i had i had a surface for a long time love surface love love love the design the the line it was a great like kind of experiment out there now my gardener's got one you know my surface tab my uh surface book is now showing its age where like it doesn't quite clink and let go and it doesn't wasn't the slippery pen slippery glass feeling though yeah that's like an ipad too it's like i can't get into that i can't get over it i can't i might my hand goes too far and my i can't read my handwriting like it's it's crazy it's it's like someone else wrote it like it it it's a completely different technique oh yeah this this looks walks and talks and smells like my writing right out of my notebook it was before that's awesome would you i wonder i said i wonder if kids are gonna be like way better at taking notes on glass because they grew up with tablets maybe maybe tactically like i just can't get over it like it's just too and then you know they like oh here these you know these super sensitive pens that have like you know like like thousands of you know little pressure points that i can i'm like yeah that doesn't do any good when i go sliding off the side of it like it doesn't it doesn't help me like i i that that pressure point doesn't do anything um yeah it was attackable i like it because it's hackable when i when i put it to sleep i've got a custom sleep screen on here says shh chuck tomasi's remarkable two is sleeping with the kitty you know so yeah you can you can load in your own templates so if you don't like my note-taking template you can put in your bring your own uh you know you can ssh to the thing so it's it's awesome it actually runs like it actually runs like a command line in the oh yeah that's cool that's neat i um so the nerd in me appreciates it i want to bring up something about that iconography stuff you're talking about shock yeah if you're taking notes on like the computer you still want to do that iconography stuff that can be really difficult yeah but you know you can just do windows dot and get to your emoji keyboard yeah and like that's huge mac has a similar command mac has a similar one if you've got one of the older touch bar ones you can bring up the the emojis or you go up to edit symbols and emoji but yeah all the operating systems have different ones they're huge because then you can just be like oh the green check box and the calendar means you need to take care of this task later yeah the blue box with nothing that means i need to hand like whatever you define your own rules yeah i mean you might even use letter phrases like um you know fyi of course it doesn't you just got to remember it and i use the little finger on the string thing or string on the finger thing i'm sorry i don't know what's in that drink but it's pretty good hey chuck's feeling pretty good that's all right you know and it's funny you guys have all me have me all beat i think like because i actually take notes the old fashioned i i i do rocket book i know that's kind of a it's a middle ground so i would say chuck's chucks on the full digital jason before i had this i did the exact same thing with paper for several years so it was but like the icon the the iconography like you can't i i'm not a good artist like i can't do that so like me getting a box in for just a check mark like that's yeah that's a feat dude no you you can draw a box with it with a drop shadow trust me um you can do other things like zoom in right right so i i looked at an emoji with a fire or an icon for a fire and i drew that it you know i spent a half hour it was very therapeutic on how's that curve no not quite how does that curve you know obviously there's an undo button which i use a lot uh but it's it's a lot of fun it was just kind of fun spending a few nights going how the heck am i going to draw an hourglass and there's there's no like graphics tools in here like a circle a square a rectangle a fill pattern nope none of that it's all by hand so it was kind of a fun challenge to do from that perspective well i mean so here's here's where i go i go so i've got um i've talked about this a little bit so my my go-to is rocket book i love rocket book uh specifically because they have note cards and i don't know that a lot of people use the note cards the note cards from here the are they're my favorite oh my gosh i love the favorite but uh i've hacked my whiteboard to be a uh they've got orange triangles all you have to do is get orange highlighter tape and just put it on whatever you want and it becomes like a rocket book oh that's cool yeah it's pretty cool it's pretty neat it's pretty neat but i use i so i use note cards and and the reason i do this is because like i don't like big sheets i i don't i don't do well with that like i i tend to write i'll write too much or i'll doodle in the margins or all whatever it is like this to me it's like if if you look at this this is my my my show notes from the other night or from last week where of just like you know here's some time stands for stuff and it's like for me i can just write that down really fast get it out there and then the awesome part about rocketbook is rocketbook you then scan it in based on this little qr code that you've got and it it digitizes your notes whatever there is a transcribe so to to your point about searchability there is a transcribe where you can automatically transcribe your notes like is it good no and it's not because you mean you mean turning it into ocr where it turns it into automatic oh yeah we're just business this has that as well as long as okay you know you're somewhat legible obviously if i start making arrows and you know moving things around or writing things sideways it's all bets are off so and and that's that's kind of where my note taking like sideways and all this like i do that like i write in the market i do like all that stuff and so what i do is i don't actually transcribe any of it what i do is i just take the image and i import it into onenote so onenote's my big cross cross platform yep whatever put it in onenote uh and then what i'll do is every meeting i just like right click and hit take notes on my own and then i just cop like i have all my rocketbook stuff goes into my onenote automatically and i just copy and paste it into there and there's my notes for that meeting with all the people so it i that's my way of doing i think you guys are probably pretty similar in that like you know the evernote same thing right where you can take the notes from the meeting and just say hey you know i've tried them all the way the reason i've been on one note and the reason why i like that is because i can click take notes on my own and it tags that outlook calendar item that's the one reason i'm still stuck on one note other than that i have i have no preference because they're all the same it's all the same anyway um especially with the tagging and stuff there's all you know you know organize it all the same there's all file folders tagging there's all sorts of stuff so it's it's it to me like i'm stuck on outlook and i'm stuck with one note because it just seems to happen like i i have a one note from years and years and years i just keep my personal onenote on my personal stuff and then i take my professional notes on my professional stuff and then you know never the two shall meet except they probably do um and then and so i lose some things every once while and i go to a new employer but oh well uh and that's that's just kind of the way i've done it so you know think about that right if you're taking notes and you're using onenote on your employer's laptop right if you leave you're probably not going to be able to take it with you it's going to be very hard to take it with you so you know think about where you're going to put your notes i think it was dave slusher that said you know if you've got all your stuff stored in the cloud it's effectively ransomware you're paying them to hang on to your data and if you don't keep paying them your data's gone it's gone that's a pretty cruel but effective way to think about it no it is i mean and that's what you know obviously that's what these companies do to you right like they get you hooked on there and you just you're addicted to their service and you can't move because i can't move like i've got a bunch of stuff in adobe creative cloud i've got almost a terabyte in adobe creative cloud that i cannot move because i'm like oh man so yeah it's it's it's bad it's just it you get to the point where you you have to think about this stuff because you get burned once and then oh man it so take take heat of our advice right like put your notes somewhere other than potentially you know your employer's cloud keep it in yeah that no that's a great point because i was i was between jobs when i signed up with evernote and i was talking to craig stepp and he said oh you ought to get on one note i said well work uses one note and i said no you can use your personal account now do i want two accounts on there and which one goes in which and how do i share like you know what evernote is mine and it always will be mine and if i forward something there about you know i'll tag it as servicenow corporate policy oh the travel policy changed at least i have that and it's mine i know i probably just admitted that i'm exporting corporate data but no i mean come on please if if if a single service down security person is watching this stream i would be absolutely floating because i know a lot of somebody in the chat will tell us you're that person just so we can see mark's if you're watching it video on demand months later by all means shoot a comment in here because i'll be just absolutely just surprised so yeah but that you're right you have to think strategically when you start setting up we're kind of off note-taking but we are from from a data retention standpoint what are you going to do about that yeah you know think i may have a new job in two years five years ten years what happens to all of my data that i've retained when i was let go from my last job i had the unexpected benefit nobody nobody got this i don't know how i did yeah but usually when they say uh mr tamasi we're uh we're sorry to see you go turning turning your card your phone and your laptop and your badge it's like uh and and come clean out your desk at five no they let me take my phone and laptop home i still had an account until 5 p.m so i was at home canceling appointments i was at home uh making contacts i obviously my resume and career history document that we talked about was that last week that was yeah last week or two weeks ago wow it's been a crazy couple of weeks people i'll just tell you my my internal calendar is totally screwed up but yeah i had that in the cloud so i knew that was mine please don't store your resume on a corporate server and don't download it don't download it to your corporate laptop because if you want alarm bells to start going off like first of all security does run scans of files on your laptop and the last thing they want to do is have resume 2022 it's like but there were a few files that were local to the c drive on my windows machine and i kind of wanted those and i was glad i had the opportunity to do that another career tip if you want it export your contacts list every once in a while too yeah to hard copy or or or pdf to your cloud account just so you have that information should the time come when you get let go unexpectedly you don't lose all your contacts that were in your corporate outlook account for example so anyway that was a free tip i know we're way off topic but ask ask can i keep my laptop can i keep my phone like cause you're gonna want some of that stuff right like don't expect that you will though i don't know how i got that because i've been in it long enough to go hey um greg is being let go this afternoon so expect his laptop at 11am yeah re-imaging and then sending it back out to somebody else yeah i i yeah well short story but uh i i got vp notification that hey we're letting greg go uh can you disable his account and all of a sudden greg calls me and goes i can't log in and now you you can't tell him dude you've been fired terrible it's terrible i when you know we're way off topic on this but i don't care but it's funny stories for this so it doesn't reel us in jay's realism where we need to be uh i actually like at one point a friend of mine who uh we we lived in the same apartment complex so we we carpooled to work they let him go and it was they pulled me in first i was like oh why did you guys do this like why did you tell me first because then i had to go walk back there and like sit down and then he's sitting there like what's going on and i'm like and all of a sudden they're like can you come and he's like oh no like you know what i mean it's funny how people can read that immediately somebody knows the vibe is off and you know it's fun there's there's there's you know probably a there's an entire generation of people out there right now that have worked two years and have never been in the office right or never will be in the office right yeah that that happening and i don't know why we're talking about this in the note-taking episode but that happening like sucks the air out of your entire day like everyone walks around like oh man like that was that was rough like i don't know like my next you know that's that's what's going it's always about what what's about me it's like am i next who else are they letting go today i mean at least at least remote work you get the dignified you could you could turn off your camera and go sit in your living room and go like i don't know what they're gonna do if they're gonna take me next i don't know but you know if you're in the office everyone's just sitting around like so january 12th 2009 was our service now go live date but it was also the date they let our cio and our director of technology services go and i'm the only one going yay everybody else is going what just happened and who's next but yeah but we had to go live yeah that that's hard times nobody wants to be in an office with like people when they are happening or let gos are happening like really back somehow you just know but it's important to take notes you know in 2009 i wasn't using one note i wasn't using pen and paper i was using tiddlywink oh my tiddlywiki there's a name i haven't heard in a while it's still around the product i mean is it just a note-taking app like what i've never heard of that so back in 2000 let's just spell it at this point like i don't know t-i-d-d-l-y w-i-k-l anyways way back in the day it was like a single page web browser javascript application you could like save to your computer and back then like you had a local html file it could write to local files on your computer yeah yeah it could yeah yep so so you would open this local file and you'd be like you click an element it would make an element and it would update itself oh man isn't that kind of what obsidian does today i'm sitting there you kind of write mark down and and it makes a bunch of files okay but but it's its own application this would be like if i sent you an html file it could execute code and just write something to itself through ie6 i mean of course ie6 is the big deal that old version doesn't work anymore and they have newer i wonder why it was like yeah modern web applications don't allow the client in the browser to just like write files write files to your desktop i still have my original tiddlywiki when i was starting to learn servicenow and it's crazy like there's not a i mean back then it still felt like i had a ton of notes but i look at it now and it's like nothing well like i could take that i'm under notes in like two days now let's let's so let's discuss this because i think this is a fun like you know back story right because i know this story i don't know that jace knows what i'm talking about but jace or news.js.pro was started as like you're like note-taking right like it was just links of like things that you liked it was originally just a list of rss feeds right right my blog was another place where i just took notes because i'm like chuck and like you guys constantly trying new things to take notes in different places and i'm always i'm always for trying new things there's a problem with that is that when you migrate from one note taken system to another one you have this whole migration problem yes um so i'm on the flat if i'm gonna do digital it's gonna be simple files and if i need images it'll be a tab it'll be like images in that list of files and i reference those things which means i'm not compatible with onenote or evernote or any of those special things but it means that regardless of what happens to those products my notes will still be workable you know what you know what i love about that is that that user experience like we tend to be in i.t and we tend to be on top of these things where we're doing the migration and doing all the work but we don't tend to see the user experience right it's it it's those kinds of things where it's like wow i migrated my onenote to my evernote or you know and it just went images where it was like yeah that probably worked in like a scrub meeting where someone was like what if we just exported it to png and then everyone could just do whatever they wanted with it it was like yeah that's fine you know like like it just it like as a developer i go wow yeah going between different you know protocols or different applications is probably a pain in the butt right like i wouldn't want to write that at the same time i'm like well why you know do that like come on the older i get the less i am incentive to to go try the latest hottest new thing because i have more legacy data behind me i just went you know yeah exactly and at this point you might say well one note's free and evernote's 45 bucks a year like you know what that 45 is valuable to me to know that everything is still there and i i have the apis or the ifttt recipes to go do it um joseph had a good note where you just popped up keeping a pocket notebook that is a great idea always have some way of taking notes quickly i mean if if you're a high-tech person you might just shout into your watch and go sure hey take a note and you you can do that with your mobile devices i think if i if i said the right words my phone would come up and it would create a note in evernote for me or reminder in todoist or whatever i tell it to do so you can hook up the technology so that you don't lose those moments the hardest ones i found are when you're in the shower and you get that great idea like i want i want a grease pen with one of those white boards that i go you know or right with soap on the window i used to tell a joke i used to tell a joke about um uh i should be billable in the shower i told our ceo i'm like i should be billable in the shower i'm like because you know how many times i've like solved a problem because i was just like i need to go like get ready for work and like it just aha came to me and then like i did 80 miles an hour down the freeway because i had to go fix this thing at work right like i should be billable in the shower you same thing right like joseph yeah joseph's works in the middle of the night too because there's a lot of times you wake up in the middle and i go i've got an idea and sometimes you wake up in the morning going what was i oh that is the stupidest idea and other times you go hey that's a great insight to finish the the you know this project or whatever yeah lombardo says evernote for life um it's a it's a it's it's you you'll get you'll you'll get that just that urge right like and and to your point chuck where you said this is just like a brain dump right like this is where just everything goes like have that place have a place where it doesn't there's no organization there's no there's no requirement it's just get it out of my brain as quickly as possible it has to be a trusted place though you can't just yeah that's the big thing i mean being a a david allen getting things done advocate for years you have to trust your system right right because if you've got notes here and notes there and tasks here and and tasks there you don't have any central place to go to to say this is my source of authority this is what's telling me to go today right a big the big way of that i drive things is what's on my calendar in fact i'll look at it tonight and go how really do i got to get up tomorrow oh i got an 8 30 call with my mentee i've gotta i've got to mentally prepare for that so i know whether i can sleep until 5 30 or 7 30 or whatever and that kind of sets the tone for the day and then i get up and look at the calendar and i start writing it down on the remarkable going what am i going to be taking notes for today kids what's on my calendar and so being ready for that stuff keeps a lot of the surprises at bay obviously surprises come up in every day in every life yeah but being able to adapt that if you didn't take the notes you don't you can't adjust to those right emergencies exactly somebody says hey grandma just got taken to the hospital like okay drop everything we're going to the hospital how does that what does that mean when you're done with that particular hospital emergency can you come back and pick things up as it was you better have the notes you better have the tasks you better have you know the the the calendar to resume your life where it left off yeah yeah i and joseph you know he's got atd i i'm the same way i don't i don't have like an a neuro digest like my wife has epilepsy right like at any moment and and i hate i i don't like saying this like she can have a seizure i need to help her like anything like i could be pulled out of whatever i'm doing like at any moment and and so i have to have a system in place where i can get it down and into like you say a trusted source as quickly as possible like like absolutely and and to me like i i keep um so i don't even erase so uh with with rocketbook right like that this is why i want to go to remarkable because i have this dilemma right of i've scanned it in i've i've i've moved it into my one note and then i'm like do i erase it like am i sure am i sure it's supposed to be erasable oh i have a rocky book too mark you've touched it do you know what the most if you want to know what the most anxiety it's like okay but what if like what if what if i didn't get it all the way synced in or what if like i've had that happen where it's gone to rocket book and then i'm like throw it to one note and it's gone and i went erase and i'm like not what i wanted to do so yeah that verification in there if that's your process you got to make sure it made it to the other side yeah trust but verify right like right i i unfortunately learned like to the point where i i you know there's points where you put your trust in right where i i did it i snapped the picture it went to rocket book and i'm like but i didn't i didn't like i'm lazy i don't want to go and trust but verify every single step of the way and of course i've got three steps in my process because i'm a techno idiot and like it's it's way overly complicated than it should be it's you gotta make it as easy as possible yes it's gonna be easy it's gotta be easy to capture yep it's it's that easy to put it out of your brain it's not easy to get it out of your like fingers however that happens keyboard pen paper whatever you're not going to take the notes you're going to stop taking notes yeah yep and it's like any anything that deters you from taking that note like with rocket book i stopped using it just because i don't want to take my phone not take a picture of it really really because to me that's where i go and review them again like i actually read through them after they've been like sunk into my rocket book that's that's you have to you have to clear those books out like every 30 days otherwise the ink sticks to the pages oh yeah and they become yeah that's a problem if it were up to me i would just write on those pages until the book was full and then i would scan them all in because then i would get rid of it here's a uniquely arizona problem and this happened once i have a uh it dries out once no no no it didn't dry out this stuff it reacts to um it reacts to heat and so i had it sitting in the car in the summertime on the seat and it's like thermal paper gone no the ink is thermal the thing it was normal the note disappears because it's too hard you should not use rocket books sir this reminds me of the people at the pizza place that print out your receipt and then stick it to the hot box you get home and the receipt is black yeah so in arizona just for people that don't quite get this right like in arizona if i go get a receipt printed and i in the middle of summer and i stick it on the like the the dashboard of my car it's like a hundred and what a hundred percent 20 in the car at least at least 100 at least and that thing will be a crinkled mess of blackness right it looks just like completely how much did i spend no clue i mean no clue can you can you order like a notepad with a spiral that has orange triangles like so you don't have to use the rocket booking wow you just make it yourself right you could do that are you going to do that yeah that's what i did for my i'm so lazy i i'm so cheap i didn't want to buy the the whiteboard sticks and i was like i bet you could just do this with triangles and that's all i did i print triangles and put them up okay i'm going to take us in another direction do you take notes for non-work things oh absolutely such as i i started doing this like taking notes about well so before probably 2018 no i took no notes for my personal life okay but then i started using obsidian and like they're like oh yeah you should you should put notes on what people like put down things that they say like to remind you to like get them like a gift that they might talk about yeah maybe they order a specific food or maybe like you don't want to forget that i don't know your daughter said she loved this song or she hated that song or whatever and then on her birthday you can like just make note of that thing but um no i didn't take notes on personal stuff probably until like last three years okay me too me too yeah i started doing a monthly call with a number of friends just to keep in touch i said there's no reason why i can't keep in touch with people that i've known for 40 50 years and and have a saturday call with them for an hour it takes minimal time but when it's once a month it's tricky to remember what they said last month or two months before but if you jot it down then you go hey how was your trip to hawaii or it becomes more about them and that increases the the the relationship improves because you're engaged with what they're saying and what they said even my parents we have a weekly zoom call and i go hey have you got your bikes out yet you know part of it is seasonal hey how's the you know the housing situation looking you mentioned that or how's auntie what's-her-face doing because i took notes and that frees up my brain so that i can do other more productive work that and and the other one is is even weirder because it's not even like relationship based we do a podcast called the topic is trek and one of our assignments is to keep up on the latest episodes so we just finished up star trek picard we just started star trek strange new worlds i'm not gonna ruin anything for you but i make notes throughout the show good quotes that were in the show what's happening so that when we do our podcast i can go back and say hey did anybody think you know why is this happening now and that's not supposed to go there so it jogs my brain so that i can have a better dialogue with the other hosts during the show but there's no check boxes there's no calendars there's no there's literally no iconography at all on this thing maybe you know the letter q for i got a question about this um so different types of note-taking in different contexts is perfectly okay how how do you write a big giant cue i'm not going to get into it never mind i'm not i write the letter q q how do you make a difference i mean you're talking picard right i'm like how do you make the like it's not the character i know i'm just quitting come on although i was thinking about that going am i gonna get confused by my own notes no this is q colon on the far left indicating this is a question i have there you go that's why i was i wanted to know i'm like because me i just write a big old cue all over the place i'm like was that a question or did he say something cool like i will admit that my handwriting is pretty atrocious i i have a certain style of looping letters and my m's and my n's and my u's look a lot alike because it's just sort of this now what i found in the last couple of weeks this is this is new uh is if i slow down you don't have to write as fast as you possibly can that's a bad habit i picked up in college 30 some years ago because i was trying to keep up with professor kilt or dr kilton and he wrote fast so i had to write fast and my handwriting quality went in the toilet yep now i realize look i'm going to draw a letter as good as i can right reasonably paced and move on to the next letter and move on to the next layer exactly it's more about what can i absorb later if i'm if i'm watching star trek dang it hit the pause button it's not live tv anymore you know take your note and move on if i'm in a zoom meeting note the icons help to speed things up and i will write things down so it's i've i'm sort of focusing more about the quality of the notes again sure did you guys ever use livescribe no no do you know what i'm talking about no it was a pen that you had to buy a special dot matrix paper with that recorded what you drew and it digitized it like immediately like to itself but also um evernote and moleskine had something like that for a while too it also we were could record the voices so you could play back the notes and you could take the pen and touch on the paper where you had wrote the note and it would play back the noise from when you wrote the note there and that was awesome except it creeped everybody out who knew what it did in the room sorry michael using it michael i won't even get into my signature but there's only three letters left in my name i wrote my signature so fast it's like it's gotten worse over the years no one could copy yours because it's just scribbles i'm like yeah i know i'm the only one that's the point of a signature though but you see even if you scribble with that light scrap then you could know what the note was being taken at the time because it would just play the audio and heard back right right so all right so let's let's i i thought it was cool i mean like i thought that was a cool tech but i never really jumped in because i needed the special paper right i don't like having to need special paper i totally agree but they took away the whole requiring you to have like a sinking process to a computer if you didn't want it and it also took care of the my notes are not legible because it also had this really dumb that that was fun feature you could draw a piano and you could play the piano oh i remember that i do remember seeing something about that that almost reminds me of you guys are a little younger than i remember bill cosby had a show or a little snippet called picture pages do you remember seeing that on tv it was like between segments of cartoons or something and he would come out and he would say let's get out our mortimer ichabod writer and it was a little stylist and as you drew something it would make this it would make a sound like oh i so want to use that with my remarkable sing songs in meetings where it's like what is that is that noise i'm just taking notes wow um so okay that's i wanted to point this out right because we've all we've touched on this like you know what method do we use is it you know is it i don't know what the names of all the no connected taking methods is you want to know why because i don't use one like don't use a method don't don't go learn some framework and go like i have to do it this way and that it's like no come on yeah there's a lot of there's nothing word you should know just write it yeah write it down right get it out of your head there i mean if you want to go research bullet journaling and make up your own version of that if you want to get into getting things done and i mean you listen to david allen he doesn't prescribe any specific technology for getting things done he said you could do this on paper you could uh index cards you could do it electronically you could use you know any one of number of software packages i think he used lotus notes when he first came out with this thing he tells you how old it is but uh it's it's more about the process of getting it out of your head and writing it down into a trusted system and i've always gone back to that whenever i feel stressed it means i'm trying to hang on to too much and i even have a page or a notebook in my remarkable called brain dump just it's time to flush the brain and figure out where all this stuff goes right right you're trying to hang onto too much you've got housework going on you've got yard work going on you've got vacations being planned you've got three projects at work okay make that 13 projects at work what is it that's stressing you out and what's next so that you can get that out so it's like just write it out if it's a mind map that drives that great outline that drives that great just get it out of your head and you will feel so much better then you can start to organize it and slice it and dice it and do whatever you need to do with it absolutely yeah and it's just like i think there's a lot of pressure put on that right of like like you you've got to do it this way you've got to write this right you know who cares just write it down just write it down if you write it in pictures i don't care like it doesn't matter to me and that's why like i was surprised when you know you had asked a question check of like you know do you do you take notes in your personal life i'm like all the freaking time like yeah like and and and you know things i think you know social media posts or you know take it it's like it doesn't matter like i don't write when i go through and i do show notes of like what time i think something was interesting it's like i don't i don't write that in the same format that i would write like my meeting notes right it's the same it's not the same format that i would write like like go write the you know figure this out from your manager right it's totally different because it just works differently in each situation make it work for the situation yeah we've got our we've got our knowledge conferences coming up yeah i don't know some of it is some of it is on uh you know a calendar and some of it i wrote down just because i wanted to remember when it was yeah so yeah it looks like a calendar there's hours on the left-hand side and there's blocks and locations but you know what it sticks a lot better in my head because i wrote it down and i viscerally attach to that and if somebody says hey i've got this thing at five o'clock going no i'm doing karaoke from five to six but i'll join you after that right it's it's the method that's the most you know the most impactful it doesn't have to be the most efficient it just needs to be the one that works the best for your brain that's it frankly i find writing is kind of fun too yeah it is isn't it right like in writing notes like i feel it's freeing right because i can just write whatever i want and structure it however i want and i can go back to it later and figure it out and i feel like nine times out of ten when i am like to your point chuck when i'm stressed right i i just need to start getting like at the i find it's at the end of the night right where i'm like i don't know what i'm doing the next morning like i have no idea what i gotta get done like i just sit there and i just list it all out i get it all down and then i go organize it and figure out what i gotta do later and even if you do it you know two or three days later it doesn't matter you've got to get it written down like just get it down there so you don't forget it that's the biggest point we had we had a hackathon a few weeks ago at the end of march here in phoenix and uh we it it wasn't so much teams anymore because we had a smaller group so everybody was on the same team it was one team and uh but it was great discussion great brainstorming and i took out my remarkable and you can do a screen share thing so i was i was sharing it to the laptop and the laptop was showing it on the projector and as i would draw i said wait we need to map out our data model before we begin this here's a table and it's related to this and no maybe we know many to many and i had lots of squares and it was it was really a crappy drawing but but it turned up that you know like every hackathon you have to do presentation at the end to show what you built that image made it into the final presentation like hey that's kind of creative actually but it it showed that that you can do these kinds of of things both interactively in the moment but yet reference them later right because it was kind of fun uh and and like you said it was it was liberating to get it out of your head and you know if somebody said something well you erase that line and you draw it over to this line it was it it's kind of fun yeah it's you know the more you write the more it kind of starts pouring out like that's what i feel like like you know i didn't even some some of the times i'll put things tasks in or or um you know to do us is my favorite we can talk about that in another episode but um you know it's i i i feel like when i'm putting things in and just kind of like rapid fire writing them down and getting them in like it's like there are times where like i'll ideate something where i'm like i didn't even think about that i didn't even think about that while i was worried about all this but just the fact of me writing it down helped right organize what this is it exposes new cracks that that you may not have originally found yeah and and that and alone relieves the stress yes yeah yeah so tie it all back we'll go back to last week with imposter syndrome right if you're fighting that a lot of times it's just getting organized right a lot of high functioning people it's just getting organized they need to they need to get it out of their brain and on the paper so that they they're worried about forgetting it i mean really what it is i'm worried i'm gonna forget it and that's the biggest issue well and to your point you asked me earlier this week you said how do you get this all done you know you've got podcasts going on you've got videos going on you've got knowledge to plan for and a lot of it is just keeping it organized and note-taking is a major major part of keeping it organized when we had we had a a speaker change on monday for the third time in two days so sorry for the keynote right hey welcome aboard new guy and my boss says um we've got till friday to sort this all out now no problem i know exactly what needs to be done i know what calendar appointments need to go on here we're going to check in daily blah blah blah blah blah and and by wednesday we had a pretty solid but i asked him today just for confirmation i said how do you feel about what we've done in the last five days he said great yeah and and that's because i was taking lots of notes every day and i was paying attention to what's important and what's not important especially you know you got to be able to prioritize and again we're getting into and i hate to use the term time management because nobody can manage time there's only 24 hours in the day it's all about the priorities yeah so you we are we're getting into passionate territory again it's all right that's all right well we're here oh might be what nothing i said we're hitting that that one hour mark right so we're getting yeah we're getting to the end of the show which is when we tend to trail off and you know you know we keep referencing to doing calendars it might be a fun spin-off on this episode yeah come back yeah how do you manage like everything but how do you manage your work some people i know they just write everything in a calendar yep yeah other people use a system like todoist or trello and obviously different projects have different like shared spaces oh and then when you have to engage with somebody else you know what's their system and why do you integrate that into yours so yeah we've got some future topics to cover yeah let's do it i'll i'll put it on the schedule um but uh absolutely so let's let's round it out uh note-taking i i think first of all make it work for you right if that's get it out of your head write it down just put it down on paper or on the computer yeah put it get it somewhere right if if if you're if you're comfortable tight i know we said no typing if you're comfortable typing don't do it in a meeting but yeah dude type it down like get get it down on paper get it get it i said it get it down on paper again like just get it down get it out of your mind get it out of get out of short-term memory right like that's the biggest thing is i look at it like that's my ram right oh my gosh as soon as my wife tells me three things we need from the store i'm writing it down i can keep one or two in my head but when it gets to three it gets really sketchy no i tell her to text me at that point yes no i i'm the same way three is my limit i'm like you can give me three things and after three you better send me a list because i'll be walking through home depot going light bulbs extension cord and damn it what was the third one and that third one right yeah that's the one that's always the hardest to remember that third you get home you go ah i needed a wax ring for the toilet back to home depot yeah wow yeah yeah don't forget if you're replacing toilets don't forget your wax rings i buy two because i always screw up the first one that isn't the furthest off topic we've been yet listen if you wanted to learn about plumbing service now and note taking you're in the right place all you got gotta do for those things is call a plumber no now how you fix your toilet i don't know the wax ring costs you'll learn you learn so much about plumbing when you're a homeowner we are a homeowner my wife takes care of everything she's amazing but there are certain things i won't touch but i will i will i will attack the toilet issues you're not a homeowner at least you don't feel like it's your house until you've repaired something on that toilet i don't know what it is but okay close this out mark us out i'm tr i'm i'm trying try do you know how hard it is to rain in chuck to mossy like do you have any ideas it's like friday night no i don't know like he's kind of the kid thanks for letting me hijack your show again oh come on anytime you want to come on is a lot of fun so um you know let's let's let's close it out uh i think i think that was a good time um we didn't open the chat but we had a we had good chat um you know nobody jumped on lots of good interactions between joe and mike david yes thank you thank you everybody that showed up and if you're watching this video on demand you know like subscribe everything i'm trying to get the channel up and running please it helps against the algorithm um which is why i called it professional note-taking because the algorithm like it it's it's it's great so you know this is where we're coming up with topics but i'm gonna run through i'm gonna give everybody a chance to you know pitch what you're selling so let's start with jace jason anything you want to tell the people i'll do on the big screen here sure news.js.pro now you can upload stuff sorting that that's a whole other problem but upvotes are new filtering is incoming you can still search stuff i just don't have that before um also if you have any newsworthy stuff that you wanna have me talk about in my five-minute bit send me a message on linkedin um it's hard to source that stuff then linkedin makes it really difficult to pull it out awesome awesome yeah please please check that out um news.js.pro i'll throw a link in the in in the description down below but uh yeah absolutely and uh over to you chuck let's you know pitch what hey there's a lot i won't kid you i mean there's stuff about podcasting there's stuff about servicenow there's stuff about karaoke but if you want to find the single central point of my internet universe it's at chuck tomasi.com and that will point you in every direction from amazon to github to youtube and everything in between so that's where you want to start if you're looking for anything about me even the obscure awesome awesome um yeah absolutely uh everybody please uh remember you know like and subscribe down below um there you know if if you've got questions you're looking for me uh phxdev uh dot me is my website uh again you can find my social phx dev um on damn near any platform um a lot of fun thanks guys thank you so much for hopping on this was a lot of pleasure thank you chat for for for being um you know so lively tonight uh this was great um and again remember next week so next week next week it seems to be topical i don't know we're going to talk about conferences i wonder why that is like i hope i'm home well yeah i mean that should have been this week no it shouldn't have you know if if i was good at planning things it would have been this group but i'm bad at planning things so it's next week during the conferences there's there's still time i have your feet hurting right like but there are some other conferences that are later in the month oh i want to be a part of that because i got i got words about conferences oh man okay words of wisdom not words of condemnation chuck always gives me i mean they can be the same if it weren't for conferences i wouldn't be where i am today same same same all right it's all about the whole hallway track i love that term who came up with that that was this no it was come on that's not it's the hallway track that's you said it you set it on a comment somewhere you could call that the happy hour track you could call that whatever you yeah there's there's there's a lot to be said for the networking yeah absolutely in the writing community they call it the bar pot you guys are barking giving it away we're giving them teasers this is your snippet for next week yeah this will be my snippet for next week you're right jack i'll be like join me chuck and jace i'll be like chuck's gonna be there like like if you think i wasn't if i wasn't already pimping you out for this stream which special guest right it's like next week like chuck said he was gonna be yes i got no choice awesome all right let's let's close it out that'll be the clip for next week's show that i'll chop up and throw into every platform uh it'll be fun but anyway uh thanks again thank you thank you everybody for for joining me uh you know highlights of my week doing this is a lot of fun so um and i love it when my friends get together so um next week i will have a slight surprise small surprise i'm hoping that it'll be delivered in my inbox right as we speak right now um so it'll be next week will be fun so please join us next week 5 30 um pacific time and uh we'll see you then thanks everybody pizza time pizza time see ya