starting and we are live this is troy posolo with another workflow wednesday now with troy and today i get to talk about our last webinar from third era talking about common services data model 4.0 and with me i have the presenters from that let me unpin my camera there we go kalis say hello hey good morning everybody nice to be here thanks for joining in nate hey good morning everyone happy to be here uh excited for this conversation i sure appreciate the effort you guys have put in we've been working on projects together a number of different things but i know both of you have spent a big chunk of time looking at how we help customers through that journey of oh i've got cis and and how do i build that into really understanding the impact to the organization and like we need another acronym but we do we have cmdb and csdm that's what i wanted to spend some time talking about today tell me how the the webinar went i think it went well i and so like i was saying on 24 is one of the things that i've seen servicenow do webinars in and i really like the platform from the user perspective so being somebody who's watching the meeting and somebody who's looking at it being able to make the screen bigger being able to download the presentation all of that was really great but then nate and i did that paradigm shift and we're on the other side of it and it's just another rule right so it's just having the time to get it get it up and get it going i thought it went well i thought the questions were very on point to what we were talking about which means that our message got across and interestingly what were some of those yeah questions people started looking through that it's where am i at where am i at on the journey so that tends to be the big question and always as we do this at least what i'm seeing i think nate might be seeing the same thing is you know we look at this from you know we do road maps and we go in and we adjust and we look at we you know we just do that that deep dive into your system and look at your cmdb um look at just holistically at the whole thing and and as we're doing that we're always taking common service data model but that doesn't always match one to one with the organization's goals so what we've seen is they may start an application portfolio management project and have not really even thought about how healthy is their cmdb or they're looking at service offerings and so how healthy is my cmdb and it does that where we circle back around and they're like going services i i i need services what is this all about what are all those pieces and parts that i need to be successful and it i find it to be really um a marriage of technology and the business right um and it's go ahead i'm just gonna say like you know we talked to some of our customers and you know and and we see pieces of the road in place right we might have the second 20 feet of that road in place but the base or the foundation isn't quite there yet and so you have to go back and kind of go back to the roots of this and and kind of repave things going forward yeah i found that a lot um the painful part of that is when they've honestly really already started so if they've really already started and they were doing common service data model one or two and the inks that they have when we start talking about stratifying out services it almost puts an organization in a panic mode so you know and like nate stead when you got to step back on your journey and really make sure your foundation's there it it's just something that you need to do and it's it's just a process i i think when nate and i were talking we were trying to say it's just a process to make sure you check those boxes because it's going to come to a point where you're going to be blocked and you're going to need to check those boxes it's not it's not the end of the world this is what we're trying to say you know it wasn't the end of the world it's just another piece in the journey that you need to do to be successful that's where i think that journey analogy fits so well you know you you think about going on a hike right there there are times where it's like the trail is really clear i need to get my ci's together i need to put them in the right class and maybe write the fields i need to have some governance of who owns what and where it fits but then you come around the corner and and it it's like the trail isn't quite clear which way to go there's there's a number of different paths what look like paths but which one am i really in the gps might not help yeah but to me that's where the csm 4.0 has has been so helpful at least in in my head because i can see where some of these pieces fit um to help like you said try not where you go so you're not bouncing around building pieces but you can work tactically while thinking strategically right exactly and it's really been uh i i feel that people threw that digital transformation word around a lot with not really understanding the underlying pieces that go to it and i you know these discussions that we have in servicenow has really been pinning on common service data model brings that all to light it just really does bubble that up so that people understand what we mean and what you know the i.t world means by digital transformation yeah i think there's a lot of confusion as well around you know we start talking services in application services and business services and technical services and [Music] from an i.t perspective you know being being on the other side of the fence at one point you think everything is technical you forget to look at it from the perspective so um helping helping the technical folks understand the differences between services i think is important as well i do too um you know like in my past life it was interesting you know i said in my thing i came from operations it was literally the apps and the ops teams you know we were ops we did stuff over here the apps they did stuff over here and then the business was over here somewhere or this really silent walls in between yeah big siloed walls i don't yeah i work in i.t but i don't work in apps i run ops with the opposite right and it's breaking down those silos and bridging those gaps and remembering that we all work for whatever organization we work for and in the end it's in the best interest to make sure that you know we've got a path forward for them and that we're really coming down to looking at it from the business perspective what are the services that they offer and how are we you know supporting that not just in that silo i work on ops i go to the data center i'm looking at all of the pieces like nate said pieces all the technical pieces this is bringing that up and you know nate said that a lot too as we were talking through is just making sure you know what that goal is what's the end goal keeping your head up in the technical space to understand what's the business looking for out of us right right i think we've heard that from you know several of the other teams is is ask why right you kind of get to the you know why are we on this journey what's what's the business goal we really care about um let's talk a little bit more about you know the 4.0 right so i know you spent a lot of time earlier on one of our other sessions and you're involved in really helping putting together and bringing that 4.0 version of the common services data model out what are some of the things for those that have had some more this with you know csdm what's really different and what are the key areas that someone you know if they're familiar with prior versions that they should really focus on yeah this 4.0 brings brings really to them what changed in 4.0 that people should really care about so much i mean it's like where to start um well we can live stream all day yeah we could we could like all day on this and it would be um i think the biggest thing um that i'm running into with people that have started the journey is that stratifying the services out of the business service table um it it was so it's so confusing um like nate said in understanding your services that sounds very simple but it's not and you get into these deep discussions that really interestingly come back to what does your business offer what kind of services what business are you in you know the services you offer in banking are going to be different than the services you'd offer if you're you know amazon web services right right so in amazon web services you may be offering servers but at a bank you're going to be offering loans so how your model looks can be different because it's just a guide it's a guide for you to make those decisions and those decisions are some of the hardest things people have to make so 4.0 when you stratify out those services it really starts bringing home technical versus application services and then business services is over in service offerings that moving the technical to its own domain purely and then having the what the offerings that you're offering the business in their own domain too under service portfolio is a to me a paradigm shift and then all the other things that they brought with it were really some cool things um i just got into a conversation yesterday um with an organization about life cycles that's a huge thing that's going to be i mean i thought i was going to jump for joy i think i said that but i mean how many times i may have you and i been in or in these things and we're looking at all the different asset life cycles you know state status and all the different ci state status and then i was just talking to somebody yesterday that you know well they don't match well they're not really supposed to match but you know i want a service catalog item that lets somebody change the state and status on an asset i'm like no but you know being able to to move that into life cycles being able to have that table being able to automatically that's the other thing too well if i go to this life cycle i i that's a lot of work and it's not right so there's not thought about it so when you do it you turn it on it fills in those fields for you based on your decisions that you made which then does help you when you start doing the reporting and common service data model so that's just like one piece of it right that's one piece of four the strat or two stratifying and then how they did life cycles were two of the really big things i saw come out of four nate what do you think were some of the big things that came out of four um well when we start talking about the entire build domain and some of the additions there right sdlc uh bringing bringing application business services together there and it gets is huge i do too and i i think that that gap for change was a big thing and really being able to bubble up with you know the tools like event management and those sorts of things to really be able to see okay well we moved from 1.0 to 1.1 in the sdlc and then we're seeing x so that black box of you know changing versions of things you're really going to be able to see how healthy that is so that's you know another thing is being able to the business being able to see how healthy is the applications that they decided to purchase right right and how are they working in their ecosystem and i really like you know that business capability tying back over to the business service and being able to stratify that bring that up that extra level so that this is what you offer and then whatever applications whether you homegrown them you know with the sdlc or whether you bought them those are you know you can change those out without changing what you're offering the business i find that to be really a boon if you understand that i think then you start getting your head around you know the other stuff is just it's tech right just moving stuff around and making sure things are in the right place yeah right that's that's the part that i i love about that is is you start to see that interconnecting of how these technologies support what the business is really trying to do you know it's yes it's visibility impact but it also gives us ability to really prioritize from the business standpoint yeah sorry to catch off me no you you kind of hit the nail on the head with exactly where i was going there right you you're bringing that you're bringing that um impact analysis or the ability to connect all the way into the capabilities of the business and the impact that technology change brings um you know for for me you know like we all have a different background a couple of different places right back come out of engineering in industrial automation and and then jumped into marketing and product marketing and so for me when i look at nate when you brought in kind of some of the app dev and development pieces and tying that into the organization i get both life cycle when i look think about from a project delivery standpoint we're going to extend this product here's here's our scope to go you know because i was a pmp for a while how do you jump into a project and deliver and that's the life cycle i care about then but i was also certified in product management so how do i bring those new capabilities even as it's business services we as an organization want to bring this to light how do we sustain it grow it and understand when we should sunset it to me that csdm 4.0 gives me a framework to be able to do both of those i totally agree yeah that is really what it's for and i think it's interesting um from uh surface now as a tech company really looking at it that way and really taking the approach that they're taking is is making it easy for us you know people that are service now this is you know what we do is servicenow to really get behind the product um you know you always say salesmen you have to believe in what you sell and i feel like that service now being able to do this i really believe that they really the platform itself and the tools that are available to you really help you become successful in your journey i i think they just really really do um because they took that and they moved it out yeah looking at the you know some of the other tools out there i don't think anybody else has taken the level of thought around you know like csdm and applied it to their product right servicenow has really pulled all these areas of the platform together with csdm nicely i'd like to transition just a little bit the conversation i think we could like we're joking we could stream all day just thinking about either we just but but i want to be very respectful of your time um the webinar is available the the link i'll put it in the social post below or if anybody goes to thirdera.com webinars you can see not only are upcoming ones but you can see our past webinars people can register for it as they register of course they can watch the content but they can also download our content but one of the things that i'd like to really talk through is is what next if if clients are watching this clients are were on that webinar you know they want some other information what's that journey look like to have us kind of parachute in find them at that crossroads if you will in the wilderness and say hey we're here let's talk through that a little bit what does that look like for someone to join third era reach out and and you know have us jump in to help them chart where they're at in the journey and to chart that course forward absolutely so you know we've got a number of offerings um you know that we can work with work with our potential customers on you know assessments are a great starting point for for any journey right coming in understanding the business understanding the goals and objectives and then you know kind of painting that road map and then working side by side with your organization to actually you know develop out that road map and bring it to fruition it's cool scalise what what would you add in in the midst of that journey oh cry this i feel like nate and i say the same thing sometimes but yeah exactly that it's very um i would say personal but every business is different i i mean i think the big thing with that you know we talked nate and i talk and then you know people contact us and then they ask about the journey they ask about what exactly are we going to do step by step and we have to take that step back and say we don't know until we look to see where you're at where you had on the road and then depending on where you're at on the road just like you said i'm parachuting in where are you you know are you looking at a mountain and you have no climbing gear or you know did you lose a shoe somewhere along the way uh is it raining and you didn't bring rain gear i mean there's all of those sorts of things when you're on this journey that we really start looking at to understand what we need to give you what we need to help you with you know do you did your gps lose its batteries let's get those in there and let's get you on the way so that you know in the end you're successful that's just it's very very dependent on your company and where you're at yeah absolutely and it's you know it's not just where you're at with the platform it's the people the process and the technology so it's really understanding that that entire picture um you know understanding who's who's sitting in what chair and who's doing what and really putting all those pieces together to be successful yeah that's so true it's it it's interesting you know i think many of us in this consulting business hear that people process in technology um and so often you know ourselves including clients including just hone in on well what do we need to do in the technology and the way i've said it is across those people processing technology technology is easy [Music] yes there's work and yes it takes experience and knowledge and wisdom right so it while i say that i think in comparison at least in my experience spending time in the people's area so what people are thinking feeling you know emoting as they go through you know wrestling without a way i do work better and and what are the processes around it those can be so significant in comparison right huge and i am interesting they as we come in a lot of times they're pivoted towards the technology there's a reason it starts with people it isn't technology people and process it's not technology processing people it's people right number one right what are your people right and then what is your process and and then what is your technology again it's almost the same thing as looking at business capabilities and business applications right you can change out your technology but your people in your process are key components to making sure this is successful and understanding what it is and so many times in my life it's you go to a meeting and you're only talking to the text you're not talking to the people that actually use the product which is the people which when we go in and we do these roadmaps one of the first things that we start talking about is governance right making sure that we have overall governance you know for the project we're doing governance on the platform but you know governance overall and how are we going to do this whole plan and then we talk about organizational change management which is people people people right those are the two big things we start with even before we get to the technology part and the 400 slides we'll show you on technology i'm kidding we don't show you that but um we want to talk to you about you know how are you governing so what's your path right you know what are you thinking and then you know where do your people at like nate said who's in the chair who what are their pain points what can we do to make their job easier because if their job easier and they're happier then you're happier your customers are happier and so we start with that and even as you do that you know we look at value streams so you know how is your customer looking at this when you start saying digital transformation we're really talking about people how do people see your organization when they come to get something from you a product how do they perceive you are they happy when they're done do they talk great oh this was a great experience working with you know thirdera was awesome you know i got exactly what i needed that's the kind of people thing that you know nate's been talking about really got to get in there and look at your people and then processes i swear it's interesting it's i have processes and they pull out this binder from 1972 they said it blow the dust off and here's our processes yeah i've got them wrote down but are you implementing them right and are they really something that you're still doing right they were they were documented once and haven't been updated since since then yeah indeed but never update the documentation that comes to mind just as we as we close you know i think a lot of times as we talk about that tech versus business what what phrases or words or questions could we equip a process owner or a technology owner that is immersed in and has like really seen the value of the cmdb and csdm but are having a tough time translating that to to business speak to really understand as they look around the organization who should they be trying to engage with and how to help really bridge that gap into this cmdb is more than just what tech cares about that's probably the most difficult part and that's getting the right people in the meeting i always say right people you'll hear me say this right people right place right time when you start talking about this you need c-suite you need you need executive sponsorship these people need to be involved to help you find the people that tech needs to talk to to understand the business process understand the pain points to make it easier and it's also very to me being old ops person that paradigm shift of thinking for technology people why am i here what am i doing every day what's the point of what i'm doing so many times ops is in some room somewhere i always think about it as my first ops job i went to training and they literally asked how many are in a closet how many have a window nobody had a window how many are in some place cold working no so it's taking us out of you know let's get us out of the dungeon and let's get talking to people and understand why we do what we do and getting the right people in the meetings is really executive sponsorship now to get there nate your thoughts yeah it just goes back to that thought of you know yeah you might be that ops person sitting in the chair making sure that those servers stay up that the lights stay on in the data center or maybe they're not but understanding how that technology delivers outcomes for the business how you know the loan department you know is able to you know produce loans and give loans to customers because that server stays on right right so it's it's understanding not just your piece right here in front of you but understanding the the relationships down the road um you know with your business partners and how that server affects them to me i think it's an extension of you know really the forced market transformation that we've been through over the last you know two and a half plus years that you know things have gotten so digital so virtual i mean look we're meeting like this and on on the zoom call technology has become a key component for how employees get work done and how customers or clients engage with the companies that they engage with to get those services and i think what you guys both poked at and really identified is as we're working inside of technology using the common services data model lets us reach up into the c-suite to have those conversations out right now if i point at this now with troy right now in the business world we need to become digital and that means you know these ci's that i've been ranting about for years yeah it's it's almost like they they matter and here's why right yeah i i i always equate it you know when i talk to solution architects i'm you know putting somebody in a meeting it's like you're you're like a marriage counselor you really are in there with people and with c-suite and let's have a conversation what's our path what's most important to us to get us to the goal post right to get us to our goal indeed it we're almost at time so let let me do this let me kind of wrap it up the thirder.com slash webinars people can go and register check out the good webinar if you missed it download our links but i think more importantly if this resonated at all reach out to us at thirdera easy to find on linkedin if you haven't found me already um let's find a time to talk and really see where you're at with your cmdb do you feel like you're lost in the wilderness let's figure out how we can parachute in and help you kind of or chart where you're at and and make that path forward uh any closing thoughts from eucles and nate uh it's a journey so don't be discouraged yeah you're a knee journey journey yeah right discouraged and we're here to help i mean you know we've got a lot of experts not just nate and i we're very deep in experts so we're more than happy to come in and give you a hand if you need a hand absolutely um you know we've got great expertise here at third era but also we also have a couple more webinars coming up around cmdb and csdm so keep an eye out for that as well exciting stuff indeed thank you both for taking the time i know you're you're very very busy you're helping lots of clients so i appreciate taking time to do this and you know i look forward to working with our clients and having these conversations to help them chart where they're at with their current seem to be build out those different types of services up to business services so they can communicate business value from the technology again thanks so much uh appreciate you joining and i look forward to hearing how things go with you as you build out your csdm with that goodbye and turn