oftentimes the first thing a potential employer learns about you is by looking at your resume in this episode i'm joined by a special guest to discuss some basic ways to make your resume more effective welcome to breakpoint the servicenow developer podcast here's your host chuck demasi hello servicenow admins builders developers and curious individuals and i always say that with the utmost love and respect welcome to breakpoint the servicenow developer podcast where we bring you the latest tools tips and tradecraft to accelerate your career in this episode this time i've got the pleasure of talking to returning guest mark scott solution architect at servicenow how are you mark doing great chuck how are you i'm off to a good start it's a beautiful friday morning here in phoenix we're both in phoenix we are yeah yeah they're not in the same room this time no no but it's it's beautiful across the valley so it is it is and as we record this we're looking forward to going to knowledge of course this will come out after knowledge so hope everybody had a good time i thought we'd do something fun mark now that you're a full-fledged streamer and uh you know producer what do you say we turn this around and you ask me the questions about resumes and we'll have a dialogue of course yeah that sounds like a lot of fun okay fire away mark what's the first thing you want to know all right chuck so where should i start when i'm writing my resume i'm going to start with the basics let's just jump right into it i i find that having a framework for this really sets up the content okay so first of all we've said this before you and i have both said it on different things one page one page one page absolutely i'm going to make one exception to that one and only one exception i i heard this from my uh son-in-law who was applying for a government job and they want every detail of his history i mean going back to his third grade paper route kind of thing so if you're going that route do this but in the corporate america world and and i suspect most other places around the world cv's one page one page one page because if you hand a tome to a manager it's it's gonna be too much if i have been doing software for 40 years and i can get everything onto one page so can you now how i do that is i trim off the things nobody's going to care about they don't care what i did in 1987. they don't care that i don't care i don't want to advertise that i have apollo domain os history from 1989 to 1993. it doesn't matter it's not relevant there is no more apollo so leave that stuff off the other way to get more out of that one page is use half inch margins you really gotta be creative with that white space you don't need one inch margins you don't need these big gaps between the sections keep the white space to a minimum because that space is such a premium now when you're listing your jobs what you've done you go in reverse chronological order so my most recent stuff is at the top check tomosi senior developer advocate service now you include the year and the month if you don't include the month people will expect and suspect and believe that there are gaps in there right i don't know if you just worked until january of 2021 and then took some time off and came back in december of 2021 so it's like you've got to have the months in there and if you have gaps that's fine if the employer asks hey i noticed you had six months off you said yeah that was to take care of my parents who needed some hospice care and that's fine you know there's there's nothing wrong with with that but year and month gotta have it it also takes you out of a really sticky situation too of understanding the date formats between international like different different parts of the country different you know it like i was talking about this with with uh andrew aubry door the other day because he got confused when i put a date down right if you do month and year nobody gets confused everyone looks at it the same way like it's it it it flows completely across internationally yeah i put january 2017 dash september 2019. okay that was a role i had that's fine as long as you make it readable right so you've got your positions in reverse chronological order with year month one line says position company and location so senior developer advocate servicenow arizona or phoenix arizona i'm working from home if you're working from home you put the town or city where you're working okay i wouldn't put santa clara because someone could go well where did you live in santa clara because things like that tend to come up in conversation when they're looking at they go oh it's like well actually i don't live there i have no clue except where the embassy suites is and i mean that's a great point right don't put it on your resume if you don't want to talk about it right if you if you didn't live in sinclair don't put santa clara down because people are going to talk about it don't you know don't put facts on your resume you don't want to talk about and then you put your responsibilities okay i i can't stress this enough people often confuse this with the next thing i want to talk about but let me give you a quick example of a role that i have that's outside of the service now oddly enough ecosphere i'm also a co-author of podcasting for dummies and i want to represent that on my resume as something i did maybe i'm applying for an author position or an editor position or a news correspondent i want to say hey i've done work on that it looks like this or i'll say it sounds like this september 2007 to present author dash wiley publishing dash then i list my responsibilities co-author of podcasting for dummies responsible for proposal complete review of existing material recommended revisions rewrite content companion podcast content website creation book launch event and social media content that's what i'm responsible as part of being an author it's not just hey i gotta write this book or rewrite this book you'd be very short and succinct so a manager looks at that go oh social media content that could come in handy on this next role that i'm considering you for i didn't know you were also revising and editing and working with editors and blah blah blah okay so responsibilities right up there with your title and position now here's the secret sauce that most people don't know about or they forget okay accomplishments you must put accomplishments on your resume this is the power this is the the mitochondria of your of your resume it it's the thing that tells somebody how well you did it because just listing responsibilities isn't enough if i say social media content i may have posted one tweet or i may not have posted any tweets i was responsible for it but i may have sucked at it really bad nobody knows that from your resume and if you don't tell them they're going to suspect the worst because a red the hiring manager is always looking for an excuse to say no right so accomplishments give them less of a reason to say no okay all right that's that's really what it is and they the accomplishments are listed they start with a verb and they have measurable outcomes so list your accomplishments with measurable outcomes and you start with a verb let me give you some examples mark completed 100 of deliverables for third and fourth edition including 60 new content on time okay they know i've got everything done on time notice there's there's a 100 percent in there and there's a 60 in there so there's some numbers so people can go oh yeah yeah yeah yeah i get it yeah quantitative i'm still using that author position let me give you another one okay created and produced over 40 episodes of companion podcast content on second third and fourth editions and finally successfully launched podcastingfordummies.com website on time and on budget i don't need to put down things like i'm good with wordpress i know how to log into godaddy that stuff is implicit in there and if they want to know they're going to ask where did you host podcastingfordummies.com what software did you use for the hosting how did you manage the domain registry who's paying for that blah blah blah that's a discussion if they want to dig into that what i'm telling them is i can get this site up and running and if i'm applying for a webmaster position somewhere i can get your site up and running too yeah and it's i mean i i think what i i see a lot of resumes where they're forgetting this numbers and quantifying it putting it into a sentence and making sure that you've said here's the deadlines that i've made here's the the progress that i made you know it to your point it's the accomplishments right it's it's what i did at this job and finished to make people think that i was amazing because that's what your resume is supposed to do right look amazing if if you have a scale let me give you an example sure delivered a breakout session at knowledge22 on servicenow rpa hub okay i'm making this up off the top of my head right and that that's that's an accomplishment but i don't know how you did how do you measure that mark well i can tell you chuck because there's that's that that score that comes back right that score that comes back from your presenter from when you presented knowledge you get a speaker score right put that in your resume you have to okay so i put down point five oh out of five you gotta put in a five right and there you go see you have to yes yeah out of what if that was out of ten i wouldn't i would go this person isn't the greatest presenter right maybe they need some coaching but if it's 4.5 out of 5 you put that like i often put that in parentheses 4.5 5.0 because space is a premium you use the characters effectively and anybody can glance at that and go hey that's a good presenter right yeah that was a great that was a great score i i didn't have to read a whole narrative about there was a million people that were there and everyone cheered at the end it was 4.9 out of 5. easy right easy to digest if it's a big audience maybe you want to put that yeah absolutely presented you know blah blah blah rpa hub to a thousand attendees you know whatever happens to be so those are accomplishments you can put down all right what else you got all right so what if let me let me give you a few things and you tell me if it belongs on a resume or not oh i like this because i always see things that don't belong on a resume all right okay we're do we're going to do them a little rapid fire right ready education yes okay with this caveat make it just a single line usually at the bottom mine says education colon bs computer science 1987 northern michigan university that's one line i'm really using that space effectively yeah okay skills no because if you write the accomplishments properly the necessary information is going to be there don't waste that precious paper telling someone you know service portal or ui builder when your accomplishment says deployed customer facing portal okay the the technology is irrelevant at that point they're going to ask if they need to know yeah and this i mean this is one i've got to work with because i you know back in the day i put a word cloud of everything i could think of right thinking that seo was going to be my way to go but to your point if you wrote it in the sentences above in your accomplishments you don't need a giant skills word cloud and here's the other thing this is foreshadowing your resume is tailored for the position you are applying to exactly if now i just said that it might sound like deployed customer facing portal if they are specifically calling for someone with service portal skills then i would say deployed customer facing portal and maybe throw in using servicenow service portal just so it stands out a little bit better because if i don't put it in they'll go well maybe your customer facing portal was in i don't even know what's the old microsoft product iis microsoft product oh man i deployed ias but i i think the point here is don't you know use use the seo to your advantage put the keywords in there but put it in full sentences don't don't put it in some big giant paragraph at the bottom it's not going to do anybody any good but at the same token don't think that you have to jam every technology you've ever used like uh i've used my sequel so i better put my sql somewhere in my accomplishments no no you don't have to right but if you're going for you know wordpress hosting somewhere right that's like you need to put my sql in there right to your point have have those skills tailored for each job you're going out for and yeah that might look like um what else you got okay contact information absolutely they better know how to reach you uh include physical address in case they need to mail you something phone number and here's a good one a website it can all be on one single line just under your name so mine says charles tomasi that's the first thing top line of my resume right underneath it my home address phone number website if they want to know more they go to the website and you know there's github repos and youtubes and amazon pages and all the stuff that tells about me and it's broken down it's it's like me in a nutshell yeah you know what you know what freaks me out about that statement though is that we probably all should have been calling you charles this whole time until we got familiar with you that's what my mother calls me and she uses my second name if i'm really in trouble all right what about um awards and recognition kind of depends on this one this one's i'm on the fence i would say yes if it's relevant to the position you're applying okay if i won an outstanding achievement award you know when i was in high school probably not yeah if i won a uh a technical consultant of the year in 2015. sure yeah one line if i um if i got my certified application developer in the last couple of years yes if i got my itil certification to 2008 probably not right right so leave off the really old stuff put in the newer relevant if it's related uh if i got you know pie eating competition in 2017 now that's that's not that's not relevant unless of course i'm going for a professional foodie or eat eating competition or something and and is this so i i have this question for you which is is this separate you know certifications is this separate is awards and recognition the same as certifications do you put it in the same spot like is it if let's say maybe you're one of those overachieving people that has a million certifications right do you do you maybe kick out the awards for the certifications instead i tend to group mine together it's almost like a awards and certifications okay okay that that's it's it's what i've done to help my career grow to show that i'm continuing to grow and educate etc um but again i make sure that it's relevant and it's tight i don't put 15 of them i put my top three that are relevant to that current position and then okay so in that same kind of vein what about like clubs affiliations volunteer work anything like that valuable again this one's it depends okay if it's relevant to the job or if you're short on other jobs so we'll get to you know what do you do if you don't have chuck's 40 years of experience volunteer work can be very uh eye-opening you know to shed some light and so this person goes above and beyond what they're asked to do and you know spends two hours a week at the local food pantry like yeah you know that's nice to know they're helping out the community uh so it's gotta be it's gotta show some sort of initiative accomplishment that you feel would impress if it's if it's volunteer work let's say i'm i'm doing a i'm gonna take a job at the local news casting station and i said i do the live streaming and audio for our church yeah i put that down right so and then what about like side projects okay so let's say let's say you're building it like i know jace for instance builds out news.js.pro he's not getting paid for it right where do you put that is that is that a you know is that a skill is that a you know where would would you even put that on your resume yeah i'd find a creative place to put it it might be volunteer work you're doing that as a community outreach you're going above and beyond you may be you know like me 20 years ago i had a server farm in your basement right yeah it's um you know maybe you even have if not volunteer work you could have uh side projects but it i i don't know that i would go gangbusters on that kind of stuff it should almost be uh you know some people suggested you know i don't have a personal vanity domain chucktomasi.com or phxdev you could have a github page that represents that and then those projects could be spotlighted there as well so they're not directly on your resume but you might have you know a line that says for information on personal side projects see github slash blah blah blah yeah and we we had talked about this on the stream too about the github links right like you're going to put that on your resume and this is something that i i truly believe as a developer yeah yeah put it on there put it on there absolutely but but be careful right make sure that your public your public repos are public and the ones that you don't want to be public aren't because if you put a node.js project out there and i go look through it and i go okay tell me about this plug-in that you threw earlier i didn't finish yeah it was an idea i started on a weekend and never finished i have some of those repos now that you're making me nervous mark no it i mean i do it too like i'll fork a repo and it i'm like i don't even know why this is in here like i don't know what this is like so make sure that you don't have any of that because sometimes you just fork a repo to go and look and you know mess around or i don't know see what's up don't don't leave that there like don't leave that there if you're not gonna keep that as a professional thing that you want to move forward right same thing with your linkedin twitter facebook every like you're not going to put all the nasty tweets and all the nasty all like you don't do that it's not public so oh that's a whole different discussion is your social media profile don't even get into that um but yeah the it's it's it's that outward face that you put to the world your code is part of that and i have picked through people's githubs and they have gotten a little mad at me because like you put it on there man like i wanted to ask you about that piece of code i thought it was cool so yeah so i think that's a good kind of segue into what what kind of content do you put on your resume how do you know what kind of content to put on your resume oh this is this is what i like to think of as the christmas club effect you know a lot of people do not think about christmas until about oh december 1st or maybe you know black friday whatever it is and they go oh my gosh who do i have to shop for where do i go how much money do i have blah blah blah blah and you do if you don't do it every day you're not thinking about it you don't do a very good job of it this is the job of the career history document okay i have one of these it sits in evernote i look at it once a month and the reason i do that let me let me give you what a different it's it's a very detailed collection of the raw data that can be used to generate a resume it's everything i mean this is if somebody wanted that government document with the 10 pages on it this is where it would come from but because i'm tailoring this for every position you don't put everything on the career history document on your resume you pick and choose what you get okay so i go into this thing monthly i have a reminder on my calendar on my to-do app that says hey did you check out the career history document makes it very easy to assemble the right pieces depending on the position later so again if i'm applying for a developer advocacy position i'd pull out the different things that i were applying for than that newscaster we talked about that a little bit before i've got information on my career history document about being a martial arts assistant instructor doesn't appear on my service now type resumes but it could if i were doing something else it's full of those different elements that i can use to make the strongest case for that specific position right and every month i go in and i look through my calendar my projects folder my remarkable notes there's all the all kinds of little things i go what did you finish what are you working on and sometimes i put things on there that are going to be completed next month just so i don't forget them you know a lot of our projects span multiple weeks multiple months but if you put it on the career history document and you come back and go april 2022 got this done for knowledge on time got that done for knowledge on time and then in may i come back go deliver this with a score of that and you know presented this to so many people i've got those accomplishments at the ready i'm not trying to think of this in five years when when i somebody says hey uh i've got a position i think you might be good for can you get me your resume you're going to have to put up my resume okay it's all right here you just go in like a buffet and pick and choose and go i want some bacon bits and i want some cheese and i want you know that's the easiest way to assemble a resume the career history document but it's a discipline you have to be disciplined about visiting this monthly no more than quarterly right if you want to be quarterly i like to do it monthly because it's just part of my monthly routine i reset a log here i go verify this backup is running there i do this to this device and oh i got to spend 15 20 maybe 30 minutes at the most yeah just keeping my career history document up to date but i know it's going to be there for me when i need it and is if you focus on that resume format of what's the accomplishment start with a verb do i have a measurable if i don't have a measurable how do i go find that out oh you know no one ever gave me my scores from knowledge i better go ask hey what were my scores right and then you put them on your career history document and there you have them for the rest of eternity maybe you use them on your next resume maybe you don't based on the position you're applying for if you had to walk away with two things from this podcast it's accomplishments with measurables and the career history document those are going to be your two best friends for keeping your resume ready i i think there's a lot of people that may not have already had this experience but i've definitely been in this kind of a position right if you were in a position where you really need a resume now that the last thing you need to be doing is looking for these resources it's the last possible thing on your mind because you're already stressed believe me you're already stressed it's impossible i don't want to be too dark about it but it's a bit like you know when after you die where's the will right i mean no no offense to my current employer right but it's an insurance policy right if you if if you have to go find a job later right for for whatever reason it is it's your insurance policy to make sure that you can hit the ground running and get up to speed as quickly as you need to be and you don't have to go struggle for this kind of stuff and and i mean it's as simple as like you're saying just keeping a spreadsheet right just keep a spreadsheet i like to visit mine quarterly because i visit mine during my my manager goal setting like i make sure that when i'm setting my goals it's actionable it's all the things you're talking about and then guess what at the end of the year i take the goals that i did and i did really well on and i just plop them in and you know the end of the quarter i plop them in like whenever i reached a you know i got a rock done or i did that like i pop it in and it's it's just so easy to keep it up to date as opposed to scrambling later on so yeah and if you if you've been working for 5 10 20 years don't worry about that stuff that is old old like i said i i don't care how many um domain os deployments i did in a month or i had a i had a really early version of a cmdb it was a three-ring binder that had every machine the maintenance i did on it how much ram i mean it was it was an earth i didn't realize it at the time but it was an early version of a cmdb i had a list of all the records for all the workstations i took care of and the software vendor was terribly impressed i didn't have any relationships in it but you know there wasn't much complexity at that time but that was that's the kind of stuff you don't need to worry about is just think about what you've done in the last two years and and start this career history document today if you don't have one start it today use your existing resume as a basis of course you'll want to make sure that you've got the accomplishments and all that good stuff on it yeah so you've got 40 years of experience obviously when you remember i'm an old man paper cmdb i mean come on um what what about someone who's just getting started right did you just insult me no that was it was it was it was reverie it was it was paper cmdb's oh my gosh like that's you know both ways in the snow so uphill yeah so if you don't have a lot of experience list those accomplishments you have in school and volunteer work i remember when my brother uh he had two three daughters he had three daughters and as they were growing up they kept a three-ring binder they'd come home with an award or a gold star or something it was an accomplishment that meant a lot to them and again that was their career history document was just this folder full of you know letter from the teacher saying brittany did excellent and went above and beyond like that's that's key stuff that you can use to build your first resume i had an award in high school i don't know if everybody got this if half of them got it if just the top 10 percent i have no idea it was called the michigan governor's award for academic excellence or something meaningless like that it was very generic uh now i'm no a student i'll be the first to admit that but it wasn't a bad thing to list on my early resume because it was an accomplishment it was it was something i did that uh it showed i had some uh academic excellence because i said right on the thing academics and and you know the employer is not going to go back and call the michigan governor and go why did you give this to chuck what did he do to deserve this uh but at at this point in my career that has no place on my resume right but you may have you know let's say um mark you were president of the chess club okay and you raised 250 dollars for the animal shelter by organizing a car wash there's something for the resume you know you're a freshman looking for your first job or you just recently graduated you know there's things you did in high school and college that that you can pull out so keep your eye out if you've got children that are going through this give them that advice as well it's like you need stuff for the resume you want to hand things that you're proud of that show i am a go-getter i have done this that would be a good place for you know some of those personal projects as well right now that i think about it it's like hey i've been dabbling with this stuff on my spare time after i've done the car wash for the animal shelter at the chess club i was like wow this person really knows how to get things done so put those down it's good to have don't think that it has to be uh you know all exclusively burger flipping at the local burger place right yeah okay yeah that's a job you had did you do it well how do you measure that yeah 450 burgers a day on time and on schedule i i don't know but some of those are a little tougher when you have a very entry level position but it also gets your mind thinking about future things things that things that you know bosses executives like to think of is what are the measurable outcomes what are we trying to accomplish what are the goals of this position and how well did you hit them because if you if you walk into say your uh the cashier at the bookstore okay and that's your entry level position is you work three nights a week at the bookstore ask your boss sometime you go you know do we have goals are we trying to increase sales are we trying to increase customer satisfaction what are the goals of this position that i can understand to make sure that i'm living up to your potential is it just be on time great you could put that on the resume go on time attendance 365 days a year like well you know what if i were a boss hiring a new hire for maybe it's a coder maybe it's something else you go this person knows how to show up on time i like that yep so understand what your current objectives your current goals like you said mark tie your goals to those outcomes and hey if you did them right they show up on their resume yeah it's a it's a symbiotic relationship with your goal absolutely your manager right like if you if you ask your manager what can i do to measure my success so i can put it on my resume right don't say the last part just think it in your head it's it's um it's great because now you're now your manager has a measuring stick to figure out hey are you doing good like how you know on top of you took the initiative to go and ask them this kind of stuff right it's only good it's only good it's going to be good for your resume it's going to be good for your manager it's going to be good for your career like this this conversation that you have about setting goals and then tracking those goals that's basic gotta do it in every single job and they may be measuring it and you don't know if you're let's say you're you're a call agent on a call center you know they're measuring call duration um you know mean uh what is it the the not the mean time before failure that's it's it's the mean time to closure or something like that they're measuring a whole bunch of things go hey what can i do to improve those metrics what should i be aware of and how am i doing against those to because they're they're measuring them no one's going to be mad that you asked right it's and and i i've actually been talking to a few people about this i'm like no one's going to be mad that you wanted to know how can i do better right it's it's it's only going to be more fodder for your career down the line absolutely i mean 100 i i completely agree with what you're saying it can't be a um you know it can't just be a i i was the greatest person in this position like every time you got a little award every time i got i was called every time i got a piece of glass right you tend to get like a little piece of glass with their your ward etched in there oh we just had some of those go out to our mvps i we've been seeing some amazing some amazing pictures of them right every time you got a piece of glass write it down and why you got it right because i'll tell you right now without looking at my my records i couldn't tell you why i got the awards that i got right no idea i could tell you i got the awards but i don't know why i have to look at that i have to look at that record i have to keep that list going and keep it up to date because it's the just absolutely the the most important thing 100 so this next question right that we're going to get into because i'm i'm a really i'm really big on social media i love social media i'm not big on social media i just really like social media how how important is the social media aspect of all of this right your linkedin you know let's just take linkedin because i want to take that one first how important is it that it that it's up to date that you've got posts on there that you've you know put it put a profile picture all that stuff like what what is the most important piece of that it is your public business face i'll call it that so make sure that what you put on there is professional make sure it doesn't necessarily have to be every accomplishment or every thing you've released but you know that it they should be able to glance at that in terms of the profile page yes follow through with that i think they even tell you yours is only 50 done you might want to finish these pieces uh i have i have trimmed back on some of the information that i share there just because social media being social media how discoverable do you want them to know that you went to this specific university um you know there's an education section in there i'm going gonna leave that to everybody's discretion they all you all have different ideas of privacy and what is appropriate and not appropriate to share right but i would have it resemble not be an exact duplicate but resemble your resume okay i was in this position from this year to this year at this location here's what i was responsible for and here's a couple of accomplishments i'm not updating the linkedin profile monthly like i am the career history document it would just be this big garbage dump of you know who cares at some point but uh i i would definitely if you are in the market for a new job go look at it again it should be it should be up to date you know maybe that's one of those quarterly or every half a year or at least once a year you go and check is anything really out of date hmm sure do i need this thing from 2007 because i've been on linkedin for a while probably not it's not helping anything in fact it might even be detrimental to your uh to someone looking at you or you don't want to give them the wrong impression of what you've been working on yeah well i can give you an example of that and it came from my linkedin it 100 came from my life you leave something on there that shouldn't have been on there i had i had put a project on there where i was a co-founder it was a side project we were trying to get it monetized it was like we were trying to run it as a business so we all put it on our linkedin right and so then i'm getting calls from recruiters who are like how long have you been at mind control i'm like okay let me talk about mind control oops yes that's an easy one to forget because you can put you know 2007 to present well if you haven't updated it since 2009 you'll you'll forget stuff like that yeah so yeah yeah about every six months or or 12 months make sure those dates are at least accurate because there's things you're going to volunteer for and then not you know mine still says i am available as an author for wiley publishing for the podcasting for dummies book because i am i expect sometime in the next 12 to 24 months my co-author is going to call me up again and say hey wiley wants us to do a fifth edition right i'm still open to that if i shut it down and say well i went from 2008 to 2009 and then i went from 2017 to 2018 and i went from 20. it's a there's way too much garbage out there i never really stopped being an author for them even though there were nine years between the second and third edition yeah it just carried through yeah and i mean it can it so that that specific example i think is a good example of don't don't do that right don't if you if if it's off and on and off and on and off and on make it you know two from this to this you don't want to look like you're hopping back and forth between jobs i do want to go back to a point that you had earlier about updating you know linkedin once every year i was on linkedin back in the day when when you updated it it would say so and so updated their linkedin profile oh yes especially if you change the title i made that mistake one time um nobody knew what a senior technical product marketing manager was and representing a developer audience i didn't want the word marketing in my title new i thought that was a verse so i shortened it to senior tpmm and i forgot to turn that off you don't have to announce every change in your profile and suddenly i got i i went absolutely nowhere i just updated my title and everybody goes hey congratulations on a new position for about two weeks it was it was a lot of noise that i didn't need so yeah pay attention to whether or not you're announcing something or not it's it's totally appropriate if you say you know i've left this company or i'm getting a new position at the same company that's cool you may want to announce that well you should and get everybody to to say congratulations i will right like follow me i'll do it um but but i what it's it's both a cautionary thing and a i think it's a reason for updating your linkedin profile more often right i'm sure i'm constantly on linkedin i'm constantly putting stuff in there i mean i don't change my title necessarily but you know i'm very cognizant of what and how and how linkedin actually works so that if i do go update my linkedin no nobody's like oh is he looking for a new job right it's like no he's just constantly doing that like it's just it's something that happens all the time right and if you accidentally leave a notification on or linkedin changes the way it works or whatever it is right it it's better to know than to not know in my opinion yeah i'd i like to think of linkedin as sort of a an entry point to garner interest and if they want to know more they get a resume well and if if if you want to hear the gods honest truth i i've sat on calls with recruiters who sat on linkedin and typed in servicenow developer and then just and i'm serious you know control click and they just open new tab new tab new tab new tab and they just go through all the tabs and on the tab they hit control f and they look for service now again and it's it's it's insane but that's exactly what happens they're not doing a good job because i get those too it's like hey we've got a position for a servicenow developer yeah um thanks but no that that was about fourth thing down on my resume from where i am today would you call up a senior vice president and say we have a position for a an accountant no not really but it probably happens i'm sure i'm sure does yeah um always be respectful if you get those and you want to and you decline i think there's even a button you can say sorry not interested yeah yeah and plus with all the all the the messaging stuff you can just click a single button and it like puts a whole right sentence back in right i'm like yeah this is great they're going to click a single button you have the right to click a single button i can too yeah it's great um so we flipped this today with with me like but but now i've got it like this is the part i can never do are you gonna do the editing too no i can't do the editing i can't do any of that come on um no that's why i switched to to live streams because it's so much easier you just you just have people show up and talk and then it's on youtube and it you know there's no editing oh oh you silly young naive person i know now it's a lot of fun thanks for turning that around i think we'll uh we'll see how the audience takes it we'll see yeah i mean you i got a jab in about you know paper cmdb you did you did accuse me of being the president of the chess club so i think we're one for one on that one nothing wrong with that there's so many ex-presidents of chess clubs right now going what did he just say the av club mark tell them how they can get in touch with you if they're interested absolutely chuck so uh phxdev on every social media platform i can think of uh linkedin twitter youtube is the big one right now i'm trying to get my youtube up and running so um if you've been enjoying uh this content here i try to have a lot more of the same kind of content on on my youtube as well with the soft skills um streaming every friday at 5 30 pst on youtube linkedin and twitter so check it out thank you mark and thank you wonderful listener for joining us today i will have all the links mark mentioned in the show notes for this episode don't forget i invite you to check out the other servicenow podcast you can find them at servicenow.com podcast a reminder that breakpoint is brought to you by servicenow executive producer chuck tomasi video and captions by earl duque and to find out more about the servicenow developer program please head to developer.servicenow.com thank you so much for talking to us mark i look forward to talking to you again real soon thanks shock me too please let us know what you think about this podcast you can leave feedback or ask questions in the servicenow community for more great information on servicenow development check out the servicenow developer portal at developer.servicenow.com thanks for listening uh what are you trying to tell me technology it's it's fun it's it is what it is can we pause the recording for just a second chuck i'm so sorry i i'm i'm booting up my laptop i'm sorry you just made some outtakes hang on i gotta read something i have a whole bunch of notes in here please look at the retina scanner please put your fingerprint on the fingerprint reader no wait what happened to two you skipped it like don't do that if you had to walk away with two things from this resume where were we again let's just do that last part again oh boy yeah