okay good evening and welcome to phil goes deep tonight's show i'm very pleased to say is uh i've got a very special guest tonight show is about csdm and where csdm meets grc so we will be working in quebec and the uh guest i've got tonight is a um qualified or officially a master he is a um somebody that i've been in touch with for just over a year um and actually we're celebrating a year of the channel tonight so it's actually very timely uh that this man has agreed to join me and uh we will be talking a bit more um in that so i apologize for the slight delay i was actually talking with him about beer um just before just before the show so uh apologies if you've been waiting and i'm just waiting for him to uh appear back on camera and he's oh oh okay you're not there yet hold on a second sorry because you you were off camera and now you're on camera uh but i've not brought you in yet so let me bring you across and then you can uh introduce yourself so um excellent um ben forrest uh thanks for joining me tonight um do you want to uh introduce yourself hey everybody uh my name is ben i uh i'm one of the folks around at servicenow uh at the mothership as it were that uh likes to to do a little thing we call training um i find it's uh it's less training more facilitating more grown growing the whole space but uh technically my my title is master technical trainer and uh i've i try to bring a little bit of a flare and some fun to you know everything from grc to insight ops to hr csm you know application builder uh trying to try and make it fun so and hopefully we'll be having some fun tonight i know you've got some sound effects you've got a really cool background that is not a virtual background right no it's uh it's not and i i i took the the the pandemic uh home improvement call to to heart i was like if i'm gonna be teaching uh virtually all the time instead of only half time we need to go full on you know we need to go full-on cray-cray so we did the the whole thing and just like transformed the space and uh really tried to you know like i said if i can fool your kids who are also doing online school at home into thinking that you're goofing off at work and just watching youtube uh then i've done my job and are those kegs full behind you ben is that uh what's going on there oh so if if you ever sit in one of my classes we can sit and chat about this at maybe one of the breaks but that's actually where we're in the the loft space above my kitchen and that's where i've been storing um my brew kit here so you'll see that over on the right hand side there's two tanks that i use as uh is fermenters that have been converted from kegs and then over on the right there is a a brew kettle and a mash tun um off camera we've got a couple more fermentation vessels and then um a brewery controller and and some other fancy shimanshi uh iot gizmos that that we can hook up to servicenow and do some brewing but uh yeah i've actually i started brewing as uh well technically as a kid like you figure out figured out at 19 that uh that was the way in without having to get a fake id in the states to be able to uh to consume some beer legally you had to brew it yourself because that's legal at 18 in the states and then you can you can drink anything you want at home so as long as you drink responsibly guys just saying well drink responsibly 100 behind you with that one and how does it taste um i'm a little partial but i think it tastes pretty good um like i said i won't say how long exactly because that'll let you do the math uh on how old i am but uh been at it for a while and then used to collect uh yeast samples from various places including europe so my my specialty is is belgian styles uh and i i'm particularly fond of saisons and a like kind of an american farmhouse take on on that classic style so i think they taste awesome and in terms of hops right my my friends a few of my friends are into their kind of craft ales um and i know i like a craft ale but i i don't know my hops from my hops right so you know citra is a hop that i know but you know can you say anything about hops yeah yeah yeah well so like hops are great because they're really interesting and and um they're one of those things where it's it's like turning turning up and down color sliders on on an old school tv or messing with the video settings because you can change the characteristics the beer with the hops right there's the like citra's is got kind of uh it packs a punch on both categories of what we're looking for in a hop because it's like it's got the what we call the the beta acids that gives it the kind of aroma and the the kind of full fruity fruity uh characteristics little spiciness and then there's the the alpha oils which give you the um the bitter right and certain certain hops are are like a real uh like paste like like a punch to the face in terms of like that kind of bitterness um and then there's what we call noble hops which are kind of like the the german uh go-to's which are lower in both categories but have a different kind of you know complexity and style it's it's i don't know i like i get really interesting uh really interested in can we can learn about this like a lot in terms of you know different categories different styles all the different little ways that you can tweak a beer to give it different character and it's just endlessly fascinating i just love it well i've learned a little bit there about about hops um so we've taken a little side track and i'm sure we'll do a few more of those uh little side tracks as well tonight so your volume is a little low so i don't know if yeah that's exactly what i was gonna say i've just turned my volume up so uh raph is uh shouting out in the in the chat that my volume is low that might be because you've got all the audio equipment ben and you like if i was just on my own doing this then maybe it wouldn't um it wouldn't be so noticeable but actually that's it's a good shout out i'll shout to a deal as well i've got i've got the uh the rangoo crew uh tuning in on the chat so uh shout out to our dill and raf raf how's the volume now is that any better because i've been fiddling with the mixer here i've tried to just tune ben down slightly just to bring myself up so uh just let me know it sounds it sounds quite good in my ears but you know i think people think that i like the sound of my own voice so you know i'm not sure i can be a fair judge let me know raf um yeah sounds better thank you uh so ben uh csdm quebec um and uh and grc that's the kind of that's the the three things we're playing with tonight um csdm stands for hard right turn there from hops to the yum right turn there we'll try and bring it back we'll bring it back to the beer later but you know we've got we've got to try and stay on topic a little bit and uh i i just don't know enough about hops to to wax lyrical with you on it so csdm stands for common services data model um is it just the cmdb rebranded or what is csdm and what does that actually mean what does it mean for the servicenow landscape for anyone that's already you know customers that have already got service now they've got a cmdb and now csdm coming along um you know what can you tell us about csdm so uh first and foremost i i definitely want to dispel any rumors even though it kind of goes hand in hand with uh seem to be you'll often hear them kind of talked about uh broadly together sort of like peanut butter and jelly but there's a there's a slight difference and and it kind of goes back i need to tell a little bit of a quick story about kind of the genesis of this and if you read the white paper i believe it's described in there too uh scott lem kind of the guy that was one of the people really involved with with kind of pushing this notion forward and really getting service now everybody internally to kind of get aligned on this um you know a couple years back there was sort of this realization that we have all of these major process areas and applications being built on the platform and uh you know folks are starting to reinvent the wheel right you know you get to a certain size and scale like we've done and you know people are like well i don't see anything for it in the itsm relevant tables or you know i'm doing hr stuff and what it comes down to is that uh we needed a way to be able to look at these data structures these information structures if you will from different perspectives and standardize it um hence the common in common services um so what it is is it's it's more about looking at different data models in the platform and mostly centering on foundational data uh and and cis and services and assets um to kind of be that core like orbit that things like well specifically services uh orbit around so one of the one of the examples i'll sometimes talk about you know is sort of like being able to to take a three-dimensional shape like this well we'll just call it a cube right and when i turn it to the camera let's try and do this way my my camera you know what actually let me do this so that i can i could properly we'll mirror here ah hey there we go like so let's take this this cube here was called a cube but on one face it looks one way and then we turn it another way it looks another way and we turn it this way it looks another way and then we we get some perspective from multiple sources right for multiple viewpoints and i like to kind of make that analogy when it comes to looking at the at the the cmdb and the asset tables in the in the company the core company tables and all the the things that need to be shared and common among services who are not constantly uh replicating the same information across different places in the platform so it's it's basically if you're looking at it from a security angle you can look at the the cmdb and these other tables connected through this notion of the csdm one way if you're coming at it from hr there's gonna be a lot of overlap but and a couple of maybe additional ads you know uh in terms of of relationships and models and such so it's really about perspective is is kind of how i like to term it yeah make that easy let's go ahead yeah what i like about the the csdm uh diagram that i keep seeing and i think it's the the thing that brings it all together it's got the orange box at the top and you know it's putting these classes so the cs the cmdb is still the cmdb um we're not really changing the cmdb but it's we've got some new stuff in there things like business application for example uh which is a key one uh that i've noticed and it also brings in that foundational data so you see location company department um i think even group is showing up in there so all of that foundational data starts to kind of be brought together and be considered you know because it's not a class of the cmdb but it's part of the common services data model so um for me seeing those things kind of brought into the uh picture i think made me go okay you know that that makes a lot of sense now but is there anything that really changes it from a maybe from a user standpoint or somebody that's implementing something on servicenow that say well hold on a minute we've got csdm now do i need to do anything differently or or can i get more bang for my buck out of the same what's the value of csdm um i guess from a from an implementation perspective so i want to make sure that we clarify that even though in quebec now there's uh you can go navigate to it in the platform and type in csdm and find a bunch of you know modules related to this notion but i want to i want to dispel the notion that that csdm is a product or an application in itself in so much as it's a it's a practice it's a way of thinking and it's a way of of agreeing amongst all the stakeholders that are using the servicenow platform in your environment on the rules of play right and just creating a set of definitions and relationships that we can all agree are you know a business application or an application service or um like a company and right and and basically agreeing on those things so it's not a product and so much as it's a it's almost like a it's a structure it's a an agreement on how we're going to view all the data that that sits inside our environment in terms of reference it's going to change yeah over time it should evolve right uh i'm gonna use another analogy because i find the analogies and uh and those sorts of constructions helpful in framing the discussion so you might have seen like the kind of famous like there's a version of it here and i can can we pop things in the youtube chat i can never remember doing this directly but so if you want to share a link in there or yeah i just dropped a link in there so you might have heard uh or seen this this video where a comic book artist you know is talking about unreasonable deadlines right we use this analogy in project management sometimes but i also find it useful from an implementation perspective in terms of recognizing how much data you need to put into the platform to make actionable choices right or or informed actions and choices so what gets people really wrapped up when they look at the csdm and i was going to pull that that link up here too facts [Music] let me grab that one when they look at the the white paper that you're talking about that diagram which thank goodness we have the the quick reference as we call it um no no offense to the white paper authors and and such but uh it's a lot like reading uh well sometimes stereo instructions it feels like especially if you're brand new because it makes a lot of assumptions that you understand some of these elements and and if you're just coming to the platform uh we need to kind of kind of set some table stakes here so let me put in soon so you guys can get the white paper also so it's quite possible then that one customer their csdm they might have slightly different view perspective on you know the way that they use a business application and the way their business application relates to the relevant services underneath it now you've got a common kind of framework and a starting point in that definition that says this is what we think should be things in there but it's okay for a customer to say actually for us our csdm is is this and it's a it's like a terms of reference but with a few extra classes in there and a few extra you know like the the cmdbci apple table that's still there but that's like an application instance table and the business application that runs is the thing that actually adds value to the customer the actual business itself or yeah so let's let's continue on like with some some framework uh some framing here on this idea in and make sure that we understand that that we are defining the meaning and the usage of specific classes both in the the cmdb the asset tables and in some of what we call the kind of uh the foundational tables like company and location and um you know process business process and such what we and business capability what we are are also saying is that customers shouldn't get as hung up on oh do i need to have all of these things populated in order to start to get value because again it's about the level of detail and resolution that you need to make a choice to make an action and if you get really hung up on like well i can't i can't implement you know x y or z in servicenow until i have all of this data you'll go straight up into analysis paralysis and never get anything done now there are some some times when you absolutely for regulatory reasons like for a bank or a financial institution they have that data and it's a matter of being able to populate it and put it in the right spots but you know we we don't you know tell the the ambulance drivers to to wait outside while we build the hospital first if you know you've got somebody that's bleeding to death out you know in the in the ambulance we start to triage we start to kind of make decisions about what data we're going to start with and then kind of continue to build so we we talk about it as a crawl walk run and then fly right we want to do the the full on you know we're gonna get out there and and do the thing like okay all right let's go get him cstn so i don't know if you wanted to start driving it it sounds like a good time to get into it because you know i think we might be in that uh that's theory more practice let's do it yeah we might be in that zone of kind of uh um analysis paralysis right if we if we uh keep talking we're not showing uh was that was the audio playing up there i'm just going to switch us over to zoom um i hope the just going to hide self view not sure what's going on on the video so apologies for anyone that's uh that's struggling with i was gonna say like video right now let me just pop in and out back in the day before we had things like youtube to do explanations we need to read books do all of these things on our own without anybody to help oh hey you've got your thing up here cool zoom is i don't know if my obs is now playing up in let me just switch it around apologies there we go oh yeah it looks like obs uh it crashed out it wasn't happy there we go it's okay we are back right we i've got we are sharing the uh the browser oh man and i've got the the dirt face when i go and check the the preview can you hear me yes yes yeah yeah yeah you're all good i told you didn't i when we started uh apologies for any technical issues and um you know we took that one off a bit later actually you're better off up there i think so you comfortable where you're sitting there ben don't feel down excellent so csdm what i was thinking here is um from a grc perspective you know that's my being selfish that's my kind of area of focus and you and i have done a video before on indicators in grc um and i've actually linked that community video in the youtube description so anyone who's saying what's a grc indicator check out the video that me and ben did with eric farron from the the community as well the servicenow grc community and let's see about some of the challenges that i see for um for the csdm does it solve this problem and also in quebec we've got some updates to the query builder and let's let's kind of look at some some kind of some data right now so if i go to business application i'm not sure what i've got in here um if i go to under csm as well you've got four concepts right design um manage sell and consume is that the the four areas yeah four quadrants and not necessarily always in that order but uh sometimes we're already offering it we just need to record right so i actually want to back up even before we get here but this is a nice like little preview that you've got in terms of uh kind of bringing it all together and i don't know if you have the if i can throw it in the chat for you to pull up real quick because we can get a nice visual let me see if i've got that not sure how chat works when i'm i'm sharing the screen but let's try it let's find out all right so let me put this in here you put in the youtube chat are you putting in the zoom chat i'm gonna put it in the zoom chat because i won't be able to share an actual file in oh man can't do it from my computer in your zoom okay never mind um have i not given you permission apologies ah sorry sorry ben alright i don't know how to change that right now okay so what is it we roll around and and keep going so we just keep keep moving forward um so i wanted to to kind of talk about each of these um each of these quadrants right and if i i think i can actually just give you a direct link to the white paper i might actually or the the reference guide here oh yeah there we go let me put that in the youtube chat that way you can just pull it up on screen here because i think this is going to be useful for us to reference real fast um because like you were saying there's these four areas and they are sort of like the the four different perspectives or the four different drivers of some of this data and there's a hidden one there's a hidden one that we're going to talk about like when it comes to grc because we're going to overlay on top of all of that data a grc mentality so i don't know if you got that i'm not seeing the link in the chat so let me put it in both the zoom chat and in the youtube chat yeah i'm not seeing it there but i have no idea where your chat comes in when when i'm sharing you know i'm not a zombie i know you guys have been using here we go okay you guys have been using uh zoom for i actually learned about zoom not from lock down quizzes but from from servicenow so we were using it before it was cool no i don't i don't know i i actually was not uh i was not initially a fan but it's it's grown on me over the last couple years you know i just agreed and proceed to to the cookies there and i shouldn't have done that i should have checked i know what's there um you know okay so i've gone to now it's taking me to now learning lxp oh because you're the login try it now that you've logged in right uh drop that let me just oh you need to log in yeah that's how that's how to put this this little guy works let me try it in the uh let me try in the other window just quickly because i don't know what happens when i log in so i'll just do it's this gonna work ben i'm sorry i no worries no worries okay i want a different i want a different uh profile here so that i don't have access to all my stuff that i normally have access to in in the work uh workplace okay it's okay we're gonna pivot we're gonna pivot okay all right so so if we if we're regardless of the color like we we look at these different quadrants right so if you think about it there's the design and this is sort of what services are we gonna offer how do we offer them who can who can consume them and if i if i zoom up on what you're looking at here how do we describe all of the the things like a business process that we can all agree on or how do we describe a business capability so this is all the the kind of management layer or or if you will right where we're kind of trying to figure out hey do we build this thing or do we buy it um because because that's that's a that's a real struggle it's a real problem from from almost every size business right like do we just do we buy zoom or do we license zoom from from zoom or do we just build a our own in-house version of video chat right that's that's how we kind of think about that and do we even have the capability do we have to go hire somebody to bring that capability in-house uh what's the process for approving this or you know so that's this is the the business process kind of quadrant here like what can we do how do we do it um should we do it should we not do it and what are we actually what do we have in-house right and there's a wild thing that happens in this quadrant where once you do the inventory of all the different like applications and we'll call them business applications all the the different things that people are using to get work done everything from you know like maybe the g suite apps to servicenow to zoom to webex you might have a bunch of overlap and or competing priorities right like because one manager really likes zoom the other one really likes webex and they somehow both got you know approval to to get that licensing paid in their different respective business units or departments or even teams and so you can have uh what we call application sprawl and we don't know what we don't know we don't know that's out deployed in our environment getting work done and we go oops right this is well right shadow id same same kind of thing but um shadow it's like the decision to go and do that without checking with anyone and and all this right in the background and that creates application sprawl but they're kind of they're the same problem really i need to move too quick and like i don't want to get hung up in the red tape or whatever right but you can also have uh application amnesty day is something that i used to talk about um you know like let's all just like no fines you know today or you're not going to get in trouble we just want to know what's there so we can you know make some choices because maybe we were wrong going with application a versus b right so that's that's the design stuff and that's we get into some really heavy stuff now there's a really cool thing that we're not gonna have time to talk about today called information object that i love i love it yep um but that's gonna have to be for another day because that will take us down um a crazy rabbit hole if we go too far but that's that's where we stash information that doesn't fit any of the other categories but we need to record it and reference it somehow right so okay just let's just frame that then so so for me when i see information object um from a privacy perspective you see a lot of things here like card number etc date of birth might be in here you might be talking about some real personally identifiable information sensitive information right and that's where i see that kind of that information object helping us define the fact that this service application etc is processing it's got credit it's got crud uh definitions when we map them right it says i'm creating reading updating deleting that information object in this service layer in in some way and have you looked at the risk identification workflow within advanced risk in grc ben i have as a matter of fact and um i like where you're going with this um because one of the things that you can use information object for like if we go back to that notion of like the four colors the quadrants right information object gives you as many different crayon colors as you want right and we can we can bring that like a reference right or we can abstract well i don't know if this is an actual word but we're going to abstractify like a concept like um let's say we're describing a process of taking credit card payments right if we want to be able to describe that that process flow well we're not going to bring the actual credit card numbers in or configure them somewhere in the in the platform but we want to be able to describe the fact that we are going to take this object this thing called a credit card that we can all agree has these characteristics be able to talk about it so this is like our this is like our our vocabulary this is our data vocab here or like the amount of colors in your rainbow to be able to draw a picture for somebody um and create an actual meaningful description uh of the components of of a service or a process um or or a work like a workflow right this is where we can abstractify those things i'm going to keep using that for a minute what i like is the information object because that's how i originally saw it it's not limited to that so when i see things like backup files export files it's something maybe a little bit more tangible and it's something that is it's not about uh privacy as such is is beyond that but you know you can handle privacy here and you can also handle the rest of your business flows right i've got some type of information and that object of information is being managed in some way and then when you see the application sorry the risk identification workflow when you see information object getting mapped to policies citations risk statements and then plug in that i've got a new business application that is processing these information objects and it recommends to you that stuff i mean that that's a massive game changer that came out in version 11 of grc i believe and actually we were going to mention version 12 is now live on the store so you can upgrade your grc apps to version 12 now and i don't know what's in there but we're on we're on version 12. we're on quebec we're on version 12 of all the glc plugins that i've been able to upgrade so we did take a side route there but yes when i said okay so since we're here i want to i want to add one little practical thing and move on but like real quickly so like you were talking about it's not just the abstract notions it's not just like the like obstructifying things you can create like actual um tangible we call them like um sometimes you might hear them referred to in other information spaces as like a leaf node right like we just need to be able to we don't want to create a table somewhere to describe this stuff but we want to be able to record it and it's especially useful because information objects aren't technically considered ci's but they are they they they look smell taste and feel a lot like ci's and they they can they can mimic a lot of the characteristics but it's you know technically not so imagine a scenario where you've got uh like a telecom right and i don't know if it's like this in in the uk but um in the states there's what we call number portability right i i can have a number with an area code in exchange and like my number ben's number and i can take that from place to place to place so the the telecom provider if they've got services they can't configure all of those phone numbers or they can't create consumables based on those phone numbers they don't own them right but they need to be able to refer to them and be able to take that item store it somewhere in the platform without creating a wholesale new table like somewhere else like but it's not a ci it's not necessarily an asset but it's this descriptive thing and we want to kind of keep all of those little guys all together so that we can go and reference them or refer back to them in some way so it's a it's another nice little place where you can stash practical data that's related to all the stuff that's in the cmdb or the asset tables i'm just going to leave that there and we can go we do a whole show on just information object my friend yeah i think it's i think it's something we will need to come back to it's just funny that when when we talked about doing this show uh where csdn meets grc at that point i completely forgot about information objects and that's probably the more poignant place where you've got you know the risk identification workflow so completely overlooked to that but the risk identification workflow is is new and it's it's like the thing that customers really need and it might be quite difficult to figure out how they how they should start to use that and where that fits in because they probably don't quite have that process yet but and or they don't have that data so the risk identification engine isn't going to solve it just yet but it's it's really there for the journey so um information object super powerful so maybe we maybe we kind of fast track and try and build i'm i don't know if we're going to actually build anything today then we're just doing a lot of talking which is uh which is great i like to get your perspective on this stuff so um yeah where were you going next should we try and build something or should we keep uh going through csdm and and try and bro yeah yeah let's let's try and and add a little bit uh we'll fill in some more of these colors here so we talked about the blue quadrant which is which is design um then there's this this notion of manage technical services and this is uh where all our friends uh who are really good at the itom space um where they live right this is this is kind of one of those uh areas where it was a fundamental shift for a lot of folks to think oh other people get to use the the cmdb tables other than us in the italian space right and this is their corner of the world kind of carved out specifically right so this is where we can do things like service mapping bring in you know uh programmatically go in and uh spider through uh starting from a like an entry point right all the way down to the individual components that make up a particular service and we can monitor it in real time right so this is the orange space that a lot more people will be familiar with if they've ever gone through and kind of explored some of the itom applications like service mapping or discovery and such um it's worth saying that you can also leverage things like event management and and bring in data from other automated services like wallace or tenable or splunk or you know all kinds of different places where the data resides that we can we can start to bring it in and start to update things in these tables uh automatically because because we don't want to do things manually i'm not going to spend a whole lot of time here then we get into the the green quadrants which is the sullen consume and this is this is tied really closely to both the orange and the blue right so the when when at the end of the day if we talk about what is a service what is a business service it's just the thing that i am providing as a provider to somebody else who is consuming it as a consumer and we exchange value in some way for big tech companies where the the product is free you're the product right the value that is exchanged is the data that you're providing to them to to go do something else with right to sell their advertisers and such okay so let's just put that into context and let's create a business service because i like your definition there so as a business service for me as a consultant in the service now space a business service might be um what uh product implementation or something like this i mean i don't frame it in that way normally i'm trying to give it a nice name or would it be uh you know uh grc implementation grc project what how do you mean classically this would be the notion of like email or bond trading like the old school demo data that's in the platform in the cmdb now like oh man i think rim's still around like we don't give him too hard at times um but there's actually a thing that i want to talk about before we get to this now that we we kind of have this service classification of business service this is kind of the umbrella of like anything that we're providing as a service so if we're if we're offering services to folks like actually doing the act of um doing hr case management or doing security operations or um providing telecom service or providing financial services we define those at kind of the top end layer now here's where we get interesting and this is where people get a little bit they fly off the rails on this one it's the there's a there's a like to like kind of thing where we go as cis are related to assets products are related to service offerings and service offerings are kind of the tier of like a classification within a business service right so let's say that i've got uh vip grc implementation or like i'm i'm doing platinum level like the best in class grc implementation and you have a regular service wow yeah so you you have one offering that is underneath the one service right but let's say that you've got like budget quick start right uh grc implementation as a as a lower priced offering right that is less expensive does less things what's cool about the the just creating the umbrella of the business service you can say grc implementations as a service and it might not always be active right underneath that you could have an offering of you know phil's you know platinum vip level offering and it's got its own cost its own set of expectations its own you know uh slas and such and then you can have like the lower tier like um ben's budget version right of offering underneath that service um and that's the thing that we're offering so from just a conceptual level we think about it in that perspective uh sometimes i even use like parenting analogies here right so if you've got kind of a top-level service if you're a parent like you you have the service of parenting that is being consumed by your children right and then there's different different other sub services under that right there's um you know taking them to school or like ride you know like almost like ride sharing right or ride hailing when you when you've got kids that don't drive yet or or don't take the subway or what have you so you have different offerings and then you offer different components to your kids at different times right based on uh you know what they qualify for right so if your kids haven't done their homework and they you know are behind in school or maybe they you know didn't do their chores you're not going to offer them um you know a ride anywhere that they want right but you might still do ride sharing for for obligations that they have to do like take them to soccer practice or something right so like the the parenting and then we go ride hailing and then we go under the different offering levels right that you can have this gets into like level of detail because you might also have rule sets and this is where we get into the grc component like rule sets about like what qualifies different offering levels and how you've configured and use that like that emphasis directly right how you've configured those services so the thing i'm struggling with here ben is i don't have any real demo data i think i'm you know the plug-in we talked about earlier was um before the show the plug-in that we talked about that i didn't install maybe that would have given me some demo data in in these areas so some of those scenarios you know it's always nice to see the demo data and go okay how did the people that built this thing think about that what was them on their mind and then you know take your own spin on it but if we wanted to build something like real quick unconscious of time because i think we are going we're going deep um on csdm that but without any data it's a i don't know how many parts we need to this it might be like a grc full flow where i did like 12 different hours um just started regretting it towards the end well i want to i want to land this plane too a little bit and if you're feeling like oh my gosh there's so much like detail that we can have yeah let's like start with something let's crawl here let's say okay i've got you know in in business applications then like where's the right place to start here you know business applications are the things that i've got in my business so if i look at um you know what the servicenow's demo date has got you've got 8 p.m blah blah blah but you've you've got something like work day up here work day is quite a nice one everyone knows what work day actually services yeah like all the so if we said right okay i've got work day here and so i don't see you can actually see i've got some some risks against this but i don't see from this business application my underpinning things so if somebody raises an incident in this is the bit that i'm trying to work out at the moment um not at the moment like for the last little while what's the best way to kind of get to this data so when somebody in servicenow in in the platform you know the somebody who works for that customer and says i've got an issue they phone up the service desk or they go on the portal and they say right something's broken they might log it against business application work day but previously or if you're doing a change you might do it not against against the business application you might do it against the the core cmdb apple table right if we look at an incident um it's just right so this this is this is where i'm going to save like real quick that this is just this record here is just the perspective of like the the businesses need or not need yeah and a record of like we use workday around here right we don't host it you can see that it's an application type of cloud off the shelf or cots um it is installed on their cloud right and it's hosted as far as we know on on aws it's being leveraged by the hr business unit and there's some other stuff that we can kind of fill in here for context but we don't manage the we don't manage the underlying stuff in in aws like workday does it for us that's what we pay them right that's why we license it however you can configure and make changes to that app right over in the actual configuration that you've stored or that you're talking about and that can be um in another place if you want to to map all of that stuff out but most people they might not map all of this stuff out right they might maybe work day yeah maybe work day is not the best scenario there but let's let's imagine a business application that is important to the business okay so that they say right that's one of my crown jewels well the work they would do like it's so what i want to tell you is i want to make sure that everybody understands that this having it there and then not also seeing all of the servers that that are underneath it like that doesn't invalidate it as a as a useful notion right because there might be work day there might be other hr stuff that we want to also have access to right so and somebody might decide like i'm going to take work day out like i'm going to build like like jeff bezos was famous for this right like he was always like we're going to build everything that we use we should be building so if we're using somebody else's product today make make a version that we own host support etc that's how aws came to be so like if you're using workday today you can you can kind of aim to take it out by creating a demand to say hey we should have our own version of workday that's way more cool for us right and then that can be put into the the apple table right okay so so let's just focus on an example of some abstraction not too much on the work day uh example there like on the specifics of workday the specifics of workday but let's imagine that we've got a business application here workday grc considers that a crown jewel it's one of the entities and it's scoped and you can see it's got some risks against it okay so that's great now in the operational side and i always fall to itsm because it's so common um and it's something that most people can get their head around um when that comes in that operational task data might be an incident might be a change etc it could be a service request right it could be whatever else is going on but it's that's the operational stuff right that's the thing that should be following some sort of behavior that we want to control and measure and monitor and make sure that things like changes to our applications things like um incidents on our application they affect the the compliance or the potential for compliance and the risk levels of our business absolutely yeah yeah and this is yeah perfect this change here is against workday enterprise services okay which is a service not the business application which is my risk against so how can i using or what i was imagining is that query builder was the magic potion the glue i see what you're saying that says right okay i want to run an indicator against my risk specific risk here let's say risk of bad changes okay risk of bad changes impacted on the availability of my application right work day as the business application and i don't want to i don't want to scope my entities against every single component that might be tied to it okay because then we'd have volume beyond our um wildest nightmares and absolutely the 900 success station problem to one cert like to one owner right like where one person gets all of those yeah and modeling those risks and and the entity hierarchy and etc etc all of that stuff is possible if we want to go down that road of of like volume and and oversight and taking all of those controls and risks through their life cycle but we don't want to do that we want to just focus our grc right now on the core applications at the top and and the known risks and controls that we're really caring about to get going but i've got all this really good data in the platform and i want to harvest and harness that data for the benefit of understanding my compliance posture and this is a change that by right has like an impact i'm guessing by the way i haven't checked the workday enterprise services mapped but what i know is it's not the workday that i've got in this tab okay so this workday is a business application this configuration is a service so if we created a it doesn't matter what that relationship is and necessarily what csdm says let's imagine that our our definition of um the world is that service has a direct relationship to business application or let's imagine that this is the thing that should be connected to it how would i be able to build an indicator against all my changes for my related ci's so i've got that abstraction of of and you know how kind of walking the tree in the cmdb relationship table we can have real impact there on performance we don't want to be doing that a lot and multiple times does query build up does query builder help us here and how does query builder work how can i use query builder to connect the dots and give me something to kind of indicate against so query builder is a what it does in in kind of a nutshell is it it performs the function that i used to use like tagging for for different things which was a real pain right where i'd go through and go um through all of these different ci tables and i go this this this this this and this um they're not technically like a service yet or we haven't mapped those services yet but i need to i need to be taking a look at these right and and i own all of these configuration items right and there's no there's no other maybe um linkages between them but other than the fact that like they're all stuff that i'm worried about that i uh i am responsible for right is is one of the ways that you can use query builder it's also another way to kind of um quick start like a a group of cis as a service before they've been officially mapped in service mapping or some other process right but you still need to monitor them so rather than going through and um creating all these uh these maps from scratch you can use the query builder in fact if you go in there now you can so i've got ticker it looks like this this looks new to me it looks like there's some already pre-defined but down here is the actual query builder right this is the the module yeah yeah so when you when you have apm tables installed it basically you know how we do right like depending on who you are your viewpoint we might point to the same table or the same set of of areas with different views for different people it's all going basically to the same place okay so we've got some stuff pre-built here this is this looks new to me and actually the dates on it are are quite new when you see dates like that that have come out of the box although it might say february last year yeah i only came into my instance like last week or something um fun fact a lot of the demo data will sometimes there will be a script that will update the relevant um records to be within you know x it'll modify them to be created on or updated in the last x number of days so that they remain relevant this happens in pa a lot for instance but okay that's um i know that's a little bit too much inside baseball maybe no it's not but i'm stopping myself from from going don't ask the question it's tempting duplicate numbers uh and and xml but all right so pop up the the demands on business apps for a minute this is this is kind of a good example okay so what the query builder does is it's actually useful for more than just um you know creating reports or or looping in things together that you can tag against but what it does is it creates um like a live query that you can refer back to because it has itself its own society and all this stuff that you can you can leverage in different ways but at its at its core what it really does for folks is provide kind of a drag and drop ability to to create report structures that used to require database views right and if you've ever had to create a database view you know that you have to to remember your sql queries and you know we do wear statements on different things you're like uh trying to remember how to do a join right so with the with the query builder what you can do is you can take any cmdbci table right throw it onto the canvas like we've done here and if you click on business applications where it says starting node and you click the little filter above it you can see if it's been filtered at all it doesn't look like this one has and it's basically just bringing everything that's in the business applications we could filter that's a production ones for example yeah exactly yeah uh production um yeah right right right yeah and then you gr you can add any other non-cmdb table or multiple other seem to be ci tables but in this case we've brought over a non-cmdb table that is referencing the cmdb so you can drop that in it could be demand in this case it could be incidents it could be changes right and then you can create specific filters here so if you look at demand if you just click on demand for a minute that'll be the secondary node and then if you look at the filter on this one yes okay so you do got to click that little filter on the yeah switch over used to the ui on this okay that's all yeah okay so this is this is a demand yep so this is a super quick like this is just looking at all business applications that have active demands that's it however you could based on uci reference column so demand table has got this column on it right yep so it's like which are the references that are potentially available to you to run this query would you want to to use as your kind of is your linkage right so this is this is giving me the ability to see all business applications that have been demanded or are potentially the result of demands right or right so these these are these are ways that we can kind of bring all these things together now for for this this gives us again it's like build versus buy we could say number of business applications without demands that have um you know x number of users or more right and then that can help you make decisions about whether or not we should invest in you know getting somebody to build it in-house or maybe we're we've got it in-house but somebody somebody else has a better version out there and we only have like 12 users and it's costing us a lot so you know if there's less demand for it or if it's an application that's not super like popular given its cost we can make an intelligent decision on what to do with it yeah or people might be using this but we're not getting a lot of demand for it right that's one we can we can save some money on and actually find the existing usage solved with a different application so you can use this scenario here to say okay query builder helps me bring that data together well and you probably have already guessed one of the other cool uses that you might be able to tag this with would be um all the all business applications that have a certain level criticality of controls established against them so you're actually using this for reporting your grc well and because that report lives once you've defined the report the query and it lives forever you can call upon that query so this is what i want to get to uh quickly ben and i'm just conscious of time how are you doing are we going we're good i'm good i've got at least 59 minutes before i i need for i don't think we should go for the full two hours unless we need it we can uh let's see can we build or look at this one quickly right so what's the output of this where does because my understanding is it builds its own table i saw it build its own table or something like that is that it well it's not necessarily the table it's it's the the closest analogy i can i can make is that it's creating a database view for this that is reference so if you go up to run up there you can it'll pop up the results of the query so this is the problem with indicators at the moment and there is an idea on the portal uh on the community portal for primary key being able to set a primary key on indicator because if i build a beautiful database view that says oh this data connects like this and now plug my indicator against it right it prefixes the column with the table that it came from right you know that so if for example incident would be called inc underscore cis id incident number would be inc underscore number and guess what if my incident had the ci that i wanted on it which was my entity source then it would be called instant inc underscore see configuration underscore item and the indicator api just assumes cis id so when you say it's that field it is actually looking for the value of of cis id right have a good time and it can't it's looking for a field called sys id and it's not there on a database view it's it's prefixed so it it's something like you know it's been a little while since i've visited that but that's the kind of the challenge with this is where i like the dragon drop so we don't have to like like like corkscrew our mind around this one so this one here created this you and you underscore cmdb underscore qb underscore result underscore sys id i believe that's 32 characters isn't it is um is rayman here um if i look at this one is that the same one query equals three two eight eight no okay fine no no no because you've got the basically the result view here and then it then it's querying like then you've got like if you look at the list not do system parameter query equals and then you'll see like towards the back there but so before we get there yeah sorry sticking around before we even use this for an indicator um we might use this to kind of uh loop some things around so if we go back to the query builder for a minute we've got some saved queries okay yes yeah yeah so in here save queries well that's how we got into this one yep that's how we got there so it's kind of a funky little little version of the interface here um long time user service now will recognize that this is a a macro page or a ui page as it were because there's a dollar sign in front of the uri so it's not uh it's not actually looking at a table it's taking us to a like a a view or like a like a jelly based paper yeah people won't see the url it's obscured ah okay it's not obscured i cut i trim i had to trim it somewhere and i thought you know what you don't need to see the url and the number of tabs that i might have open at any time so you've got the full view here uh yeah but yeah i know what you're saying that that screen is is dollar sign query builder dot do yeah with a capital b so now that we now now that we've got this query built yeah we can we can reference back to it right now there might not be anything in that list now but what we can do is well there's a there's a couple things we're gonna we can step through some some potential uses here because here's where it gets a little bit uh we can go way into the weeds here for a minute um people always ask me like what well so what way should should we how should we build it in the system and i go i usually ask the question in turn we'll so what do you got what do you got over there like uh in terms of monitoring pools can we solve the problem first and then report on it so business application work day i don't have my i don't have my common uh like as a ci my relationship map here i don't think it's hiding anywhere no uh so so if you go i think if you go up like there should be oh there's you know what it is it's not populated i'm used to scrolling a bit further than that okay it is there thanks so much yes so let's add the relationship here to um i don't want to use suggested you know you will lose all unsafe work yeah okay i know what i'm looking for i want oh okay something that looks like work day but it isn't work day it's work day enterprise services so if i click that and say it's a downstream relationship yes downstream relationship oh this is different actually this relationship editor because we're using the we're using the ap apm version of the editor okay yeah please select a relationship because normally you've got to select the relationship before you attach the record yeah okay this is nice so i i don't really care what it is but let's just say it um i don't know well here's the thing like here's what i would actually like to know um is okay and yeah workday enterprise services is the service okay beautiful all right i was just checking the class before we because here's here's the thing so the there should be a let's see how would this work so we have workday enterprise services it probably depends on the fact that we've got workday as a business application right so the like workday business application will i went with instantiate because um it was literally that's where that's where my mouse we just need to release we just need a parent child it doesn't matter what kind for right now for our purposes yeah so if i look at if basically i've got business application and workday enterprise services i've got a change that is associated with workday enterprise services i want to check for changes against my and it could be my change might have been against a different ci that was also down here mapped could be a different one yeah but i've just gone workday work their enterprise services i could have aws in here and i could have an incident against aws right and then aws you know if you found out that someone cut an undersea cable to i don't know whatever that would be an incident that would knock on and affect my application that could go on and on but let's just try and see these two things connected in query builder does is that is that fair where do we start so well so we're gonna basically so if we're gonna create it yeah let's create a new one it's a business app changes i i don't know if we want to go all the way to changes or whether we stop at the ci and allow us to i i i don't know what's going to happen here ben right because you you might be thinking about one way i might my we might disillusion you of it so um so business application is the class i'm concerned with and what are we trying to what are we trying to solve for here what's our x we want to see so business application here business applications work day that's what i've got my risks against okay you can see down here okay so your risks against workday enterprise services so i want to connect services in here it's only recommending those but i don't want to listen to the recommendation i want to do it my own way service here so do i go oh it's got the actual hierarchy of the cmdb classes here that's nice that's nice well yeah it's it's basically pulling in the um the ci class manager i don't know if you if you use that but it's like my second home i don't like um it's it's real so we'll check it out here in a second but all right so you've got basically starting node and well and so you don't yeah here you go click drag and drag there you go and now you get to choose like what you want the relationship type to be okay so this is my parents business application my service and first level up to second level so it knows here so when i connected like task the demand stuff it knew that it was looking for a reference field so if i looked at incidents so let's say first level relationships that's what we've got right now anyway if i went non-cmdb table when i was looking at change request does it take table or not no yeah just a change should be in there but yeah there you go it takes labels so if i did it this way and connected this node here to this node there now it's talking about a reference field but here it's not talking about reference so it knows that it's a relationship yep okay so parent okay because they're both ci table this is how it knows right they're both ci class tables so it knows that part yeah now we just gotta say like okay how are we gonna refer to to this thing that you're querying because there's different ways to refer to like from change to something in the in the seem to be right there's two different reference fields in the change table like there's a reference that says what service are you touching right and then there's another reference field what specific ci are you messing with yeah so that's why there's two and they're both reference ci class so therefore they're both available it's the same when you're setting up new dictionary entries and it says you know i want to use a choice field on this table it only gives you those of that class and you know the system's smart it knows it knows what it knows what is the background secretly creating a cis choice record but yeah yes yes yes and yes so um i was going to look at the change quickly but i've lost my here it is new change request so i did choose configuration item i didn't choose service it could well be that if i save this that my service might get populated because it is a service i'd try to remember if default like if baseline service is exposed right i don't believe it because it's in the table but like the business app is there so and this is part of the problem is the the the app is there so if i'm i keep going to say profiling if i'm scoping my entities against business apps the fields there and that would be the natural choice show me all the incidents from my business app but actually the incident isn't going to be raised necessarily against the business app even because the form is not populated the form it's not displayed on the form people just naturally do what they've always done they don't know about business apps it's a new field blah blah blah that is not something we can trust but we can and also the other thing actually is historical data yeah so actually i want to look at stuff over the last year csdm has only just started this year so how can i get this stuff but cmdbci is our is our point here why is this showing mandatory have i not selected quite relationships to set node or am i missing have i gotta tick that see what you got here uh your parent the sap child service relationship levels yeah yeah there we go so if you choose second level right because they're basically so what what it's asking you is there's a starting node we're starting in business apps like so what's relevance what's going to be referenced like if we're going to do our query against change request and look for service right so the components therefore so if you look at it it's like running through different strainers each each uh node that you're adding there i'm going to save this because i feel nervous that i've created something and i haven't clicked save yet so well this and and this is i think part of the fun is when sometimes we just have to kind of kind of fuss with it and figure it out because i could i could explain it three different ways but go ahead and run it now and it'll it'll show you what is resultant let me just see if there's anything let me just i just lost my i just lost my change that i have got open i'm just going to refresh my bar it's fine it's fine i refresh my nav bar and guess what it's in my related my recent history by the way i changed my display value on task messing around one day and never never set it back so um okay excellent we've got our query now this is our query and it's pulled in our data change request one is that showing minus five because the display value this is funny because you see that um change request new even though it's not new i know i'm in a different tab because state is new and i bet state is fine let me just go and fix this because i did it a while back for no good reason um other than to to to prove something i can't even remember what i was proving but let's change it back to number true now when i go back in there uh and actually shout to raph because we were doing a little test the other day and there was a dictionary override ability you can override the display value for and extended as well so obviously this is a dictionary setting it is possible to uh to set that differently in the dictionary because everything every table inherits like parent values and if you don't want to mess with the underlying task table but you want to change some of the state values for like a child table yeah you better do a dictionary override kids because otherwise you'll change all of the parent table values as well so don't make changes on task okay so look at that now that is my number which is more of what we'd expect maybe number or short description but that's my display value set back obviously this is probably i imagine is that a snapshot or no yes it's the it's when you've whenever you call upon it right it's gonna it's gonna output that value so it's basically like well it's literally like you're saving this encapsulated query using a visual interface right and not only is it capturing the query it's it's capturing all of the views that you you put in here this is this has been something that like sql heads have wanted in an easy to do format and in the platform for a while so how can i access this data is this data queryable can i is it you know like a database view i can access reports can i access this in a report so if you go back to the other uh other tab there i closed it by accident is that what you've got yeah so if you're going back into query builder you can you can do a couple things you can schedule like an output of that to a report and email to somebody or you can you can reference that report so from here i can say output that stuff what did i what did i call my i think you call the business apps to changes oh yeah i did yeah that one is right there so and if you look up there you'll see create schedule will be one of the the option so scheduled email of query builder but maybe that's not what you want maybe you know what i want you know all right let's just check something let's rule something out here core platform engine reporting right well i was actually going to point you in a different direction just to kind of show you how another like we can leverage that query there so if you go to cmdb group cmdb groups there you go [Music] okay so if you create a new group this allows you to basically keep tabs on either multiple queried like save like uh query builder queries or and or we'll just get here but um just give it a name here we'll just call it and call it phil phil jr i don't know like i just we just need to give it a name real quick since we're in we're in a rush yeah no worries uh we just had an influx of of this always happens as we're trying to wind up we just have an influx of people join um i can see on the stream so i just want to shout out to everyone that's uh that's just connected on in the last five minutes maybe you can play them a sound effect then and say yeah welcome to uh welcome to the show in some order fashion or something we're gonna play a game called what is the ci guys what's the ci i'm going to try and find out by creating a group query here and making sure that we can report on it over to you phil okay so this is so here i can add query right i can select my query yep and we are talking about business apps changes yep now i looked at this before cmdb groups because here edit manual ci we can attach them in you've got some of this is dynamic and some of it's not dynamic so actually trying to access this stuff is also in some way problematic because when right yeah because it's it's onions it's layers of onions right so just show off yes this was it okay so when i click show all cis some of that stuff is populated from an m2m table that's that's hard in there and then the rest of this stuff is um available um from the query at runtime but not available it's not stored anywhere so that data there is not available anywhere so this is and this is why like i'm like well we're going to get this part two where we can because we're i mean what we're doing is we're navigating yeah let me add in sorry ben let me add in just to show that and you see it when the page loads and i've forgotten about this i just want to grab any ci uh annie you'll do i hope she's okay i'm not sure i should be making um mj references uh this one do i click it or does that take me somewhere am i miss has been in the benz no ben's in the way sorry oh yeah you had a you had the ability to plus there that uh basically yeah so right bottom right has been a safe zone um here add okay then save and exit and then ben can come back down here in the corner nobody puts ben in the corner right uh that's right so this group now i've got a manual one i'll show you and i've got my query here but when i click show all ci one of them is loaded straight away that's on an m2m table and then these ones are then dynamically probably populated yep right because because the the dynamic population on any given day is you know like because those items could change right based on availability based on the whatever the queries you've got right what the what the query builder lets you do is kind of create like that snapshot now you need to now we need to build in a trail right this is where you can leverage some of the audit stuff this is going to be this would be part two because we can use this group setting to run a daily scheduled job to capture the azia's state for whatever is showing up in this group and is that the same thing that you used to have a baseline on cmdb when i was actually running or responsible for the platform and i cared more about the actual cmdb rather than it being a customers and and wanting it to be good i had a vested interest in and it was like my cmdb and i wanted to know the changes for that cmdb and there was a baseline and it used to take a snapshot each day it was you know before pa was so widely available and it's different to pa you actually look at it and you can see cmd baseline i'm on the right tracks here ben because my memory is we call it like the we call the health the health records right because this is where you get to basically one group like if you're an operator right and you're just you're looking at the cmdb as your thing that you're responsible for or some of the components of the cmb is the stuff you're responsible for what do you want to know well you want to know about changes you want to know if somebody touches any of those configuration items or changes something without letting you know and putting in a change record you want to know um if people are are updating those records or like if people are stashing stuff in in your tables if do they meet your requirements right because this happens a lot too right you might have a bunch of different uh stakeholders wanting to put stuff in those tables because that's where they would go right for things like a business application if we have amnesty day like we were talking about um they want to stash that information in there but you go no no i want baseline minimum we need to have who asked for this thing who's using it now or who's supporting it who's paying for it right like you can set up requirements right so that's one part that's the one part of the baseline that we can talk about like i guess next time now but there's the other one where we can snapshot like um basically like a like a moment in time for instance if you have and this is why it's insanely cool because it's it's slightly different than pa it's like adding another layer that's like pa but not and also we can have pa talk to this you can take a slice in time right because right now you have a group that says show me annie because i'm always worried about annie apparently annie are you okay um are you okay i wanna know that annie's okay yeah yeah um and on any given day you also wanna know in addition to annie uh anybody any any business service or business application that has uh i think you put in a change right like an active change request yeah i didn't put any conditions on it but you would condition it down right you you don't want it yeah you changes forever you'd say yeah yeah that would be yeah so on today we can see annie and any business applications or or business services that have like xyz conditional change right and that's the group that i care about today but i might care about like a different set of ci's that have changes that are active right tomorrow and every day we can take a snapshot of that and then see or create controls against right so this is where we can get really cool because this is where people's like faces start to melt a little bit and we don't need to get super specific because what i want to be able to do is give you kind of not not a prescriptive but like show you what level of detail that you'll need to get to to answer for x right because there's different there's different uh patterns that i've discovered over kind of like jokingly discovered that was no pun intended um that i've i've realized or come across again and again uh i was saying that there's a pattern that we discovered so we're like discovering discovery um so what will what we'll need to do is is and i i always say this and i make it sound like it's like so obvious but it and it really isn't it's like we got to work backwards from what we're looking for right so i almost never build up i build back like i build down if that makes sense like i'm like what controls do we want to eventually be able to monitor okay now i know the x that i need to solve for so let's let's construct the framework to get there right given the the data that we have right so if if you've got a controller because i want to know about xyz kinds of changes on xyz services on any given day and we're going to sample against them well first we need to take that snapshot and then we can use the indicator as well right so there's there's a couple different layers i'm sorry i just saw your face and the chat probably is like melting down right now i'm sure no no no it's looking good actually i'll shout out uh james uh so james i don't know how long he's been tuned in but he's saying this is interesting stuff and uh a deal's saying great stuff as well because i've been talking to a deal about csdm um a little bit i'm not much of a an ability to to help on this stuff i'm certainly not an authority on the topic so um i'm i'm now my face is is going it's still a dynamic query um we can't really talk to it so if i just very quickly how are we doing on time let's just one thing i'll just show the problem here and i'm talking about indicators within grc not indicators within performance analytics if i just try and fire up an indicator quickly indicate a template um if i try and i remember that i think i've still got some dodgy stuff going on on this instance thanks to uh full flow um i've moved things to to flow designer and i didn't really test i just kept going ahead but let's just uh see in here just um we're saying query builder test and by the way if you're using if you're using um indicators templates more recently from version 11 this target type now is that some good stuff really i've built some stuff back four years ago i think to try and handle percentages and now it's here um that's great and out of the box so this is the supporting data i can't access you underscore queue anything yeah no sorry let me give you the tldr on here like in order to leverage that like you think you might want to hold on it's there ben stop the stop oh hey bus [Laughter] business app to queen we changed it because i was going to tell you you're going to have to do a like in advance if you've used method scripted because you can call on it scripted like which is what i've done in the past dynamic result right that would be like run it now here's my indicator run it now and that's where i was thinking we're going to have to go we're going to have to script it there is an api for querying the query builder getting the results and then stepping through them using the indicator but this is i was not expecting to see this here because when i said i was saying that i thought it created this temporary table and it it kind of does i know we are going to have to circle back to to this um another so ladies and gents this is another example of of driving like driving the car as we build it here and and some of us even at servicenow don't uh don't always realize that somebody put on a new fender this is this is also kind of a cool thing like where some of us have been pushing this boundary for for a minute and asking for this and it's like it's there and i didn't realize that it was it was i didn't bother to check uh demand statuses for some of my suggestions for these i know i wasn't the only one too so i've got there that's my table so if i look at this table i can access my entity based on the more complex query that's not being done by the indicator it's being solved by the query builder and my indicator technically can access this but i noticed that that's a query results table so does that create a new table populated every time we run it i want to say that the relation the way this goes is yeah so when the query runs it it updates the results but there's only one result it's not giving us a it's not giving us historical if i recall correctly here that's what we're going to use the indicator for if i run this again right let's just validate that do i get a different table i mean your instance is going to get clogged up if it does create a new table every time you run it i hope it just populates so when that runs it sits here silently and then or is it has it updated now which one is it let's just go up let's see updated we like this one updated just now okay so yeah let's take that away i've got every run on here yeah 16 minutes ago is the first one that's each time it's run maybe this has been run you know when we were doing the group when we did it did the group but is this my table then query six one three five is that my table that i'm looking at because yeah this is so six one three five gold yep yeah so this okay so this is giving him the historical results that's better than i had remembered but that creates another challenge because now i'm going to see the same change multiple times okay let me just put i mean what do you want to do better this is this like i've got to it i've got to my great okay i can use query builder to handle the complex and um kind of predefined nature of my relationships regardless of my decision um let's i'll tell you what let's uh i think what i was going to say because one of the things that we could could do and if you think about some of the well so there's there's going to be and i don't want to muddy the water here but there can be compliance tasks and um remediation tasks that spawn as a result that are triggered correct like immediately upon satisfying the result of that query like if you get any anything that matches those scenarios you can create automatic responses in a similar way to the indicator here but i'm thinking yeah i'm thinking about who needs to see what and because the other thing that might be more useful i'm sorry we've changed the layout of indica i knew something was different here they've moved they've got basic criteria in here so um oh that's nice actually so i can go show can i show related let's have some fun with that oh and i like that it ah so i can say in here change is open right active is true or something like that um can you do me a favor like can you write quick run criteria for me like save and then add that add the dictionary um attribute for me because this this always drives me nuts well you want the condition builder v2 in there yes yes please and the preview ah the preview i'll forget about this one so and we're building it and trying to test it's it's maddening to like run the have to run the thing without because we know that we've populated we just need to know that we're seeing the data that we expect okay let's uh so we don't need the query builder condition condition builder v2 comes with the preview or not is it it does not so uh show can show underscore condition equals true no space and then the other one is condition underscore builder equals v2 i'm glad i can still rattle that off it's been a while since i typed it and he you know should be on my instance already i to be honest i played around with condition builder v2 thinking oh wow i saw it on pa i said that's how they're doing v2 builder great oh that would be great in indicator wow i can query on related lists and what i was actually trying to do i remember having a conversation three years ago nearly three years ago with with rob uh who i work with and for um and what's the use case and actually this is the use case now that we're doing with query builder it's like i've got a relationship i don't want to query directly i want to use related condition queries but related lists in condition builder does not deal with the complex nature of the cmdb model so uh it was a it was a non-starter um but yeah i got real excited about it let's see if you just click update but it would it would take you back but oh yeah sorry do you know what i try and use update effectively so where's my it won't yeah it won't preview till you get oh no like did we show condition count maybe we misspelled it dang it okay do you know what we've got some stuff in here i haven't attached it to a risk statement let me we want to we want to i think wrap it up i know we said we could go for two hours ben bar i was gonna say yeah i definitely we don't wanna we don't wanna use all the fuel in the tank do we let's go to this one of these risks okay lots of availability that's a classic if i go to loss of availability get to that risk statement in fact i am going a long way around here indicator template risk statements loss of availability that's the one i want uh that's because i said it's a compliance indicator i want it to be a risk indicator template okay so even though that moved to a many-to-many relationship which is another feature that came in version 11 i think you can't be a risk or you maybe shouldn't be a risk and a compliance at the same time right separation of duties but you can reuse the same template you don't have to create the same template you can use one template to monitor or to define the monitoring for different elements okay so now if we look at that that was one of those areas where we secretly replaced the folder's crystals like i think back in istanbul to make it so that you could call upon either but before i want to say that they were separated like they are now again but for a hot minute i think you could you could go either way look we've yes we've got now um an indicator that's going to query our query builder if i've got an active change i didn't specify i didn't specify the the thing that we talked about on that community video what am i missing ben what did i forget use reference field excellent yeah i just skipped over that's because the layouts changed you know that's my excuse the layouts changed so yeah this is kind of like showing my keys here link can't find it now let me update that and that should update into basic criteria yes use reference field business application content references execute let's just see if we get any results um well let's see if we get any supporting data in our results there's a lot going on in the indicator panel now i just saw those indicator results showed up and they went away and bear in mind that like i said to you with the grc full flow project that i or series wasn't really a project idea um i broke some stuff in my instance tweeted and i haven't fixed it yet so we've got a result generated that's positive is there any support and data in there is it meaningful [Laughter] but you know what we are we are a step closer here let's let's let's wrap it yeah i was gonna say the lesson that we learned was was that uh so the way that we constructed our query can be a little bit different um i think it might be illustrative to maybe i will come with some work prepared uh as i worked example and then we can maybe build another another one uh you know from whole cloth if we need to but i think maybe we just do a because i was gonna say like we we got pretty close to what we wanted to do and i think the level of detail is is like you got pretty fine grain there i like that that's but we got to build out a little bit more of the model i would say because one of the things that i think we're intuitively trying to do is either take a look at all of the changes against you know the pool of things inside what we might consider the the service of workday regardless of of if like we're hosting part of it here or part of it's outside or you know whatever it's a perfect example okay okay it's fine so okay fine because here's here's why i like it because it presents like a difficulty that people are having right now is they kind of go to more and more hyper-converged infrastructure right like 10 years ago you wouldn't have had work day somewhere else like you would have installed it on a stack in your data center locally right and then you would be able to do whatever you want and it would be easy for us to model this stuff right because we could just discover the other servers in that other data center and you'd know exactly where where your stuff was um and if that changed you know that's your resiliency um right but workday hosted in in a virtual private cloud over on amazon right and they handle the underpinnings just like servicenow handles the undercarriage of of everything that that's happening but you still need to be thinking about like the buttons and the dials and the switches that you turn on and off inside the platform in the same way that you would for workday right there's lots of little buttons and gizmos and whiz-bangs to turn on and off depending on what your hr people want so you still got to store that information or the the notion of that information somewhere so this is a really good example that like let's keep let's keep hammering on it um and i don't want to just give you the worked example because i also want i also want us to kind of get there naturally a little bit too right like based on what you're trying to solve for specifically because i could come at it from like a business process perspective i could we could come at it from a purely monitoring and operational perspective we could come at it right so i i like i like where we're going with this i think it's still a valid it's still valid the problem that that i saw there just at the very end was the thing that it's probably a lot of people are going to like that fact that it's got that historical data on there i only want to see the last run of that maybe there's a record maybe there's something on the query builder that says i'm the latest and you could then say show me only the latest result within that query set so because i might have had multiple changes so then i was gonna see five changes yeah we needed to filter not just that specific query but like yeah uh uh return result like the yeah latest one or last time it ran let me indicate against that but even so we've got another tool in the toolbox now for yeah the the complexity of the cmdb using with or without csdn but obviously csdm is that common model we can actually simplify that complexity bring it home a little bit and then say what is it that you want what is it that you care about and let grc take responsibility for that and not try and let not try and make grc solve all of the complexity grc is complex enough the cmdb is complex enough and if we try and send grc around the houses in in cmdb is it's going to get messy and some customers obviously some organizations are going to want to measure their compliance at the fine grain level right i don't want to go down to like bullet time like slo-mo like listen i want exactly yeah that server and that server's compliance and that server's risk rolls up to that server rolls up to you know great if that if you're prepared for that and you're and you're kind of sized for it that you've got you can handle the the amount of activity that that's going to create brilliant you are going to get you know so much so much power from grc but a lot of organizations have got you know it's a it's a problem we're trying to automate we're trying to reduce work so when we then let grc go and and we don't tame it we don't kind of put some constraints around it all that volume can be very scary and and it doesn't allow you to to do the crawling and the walking so i think that was a great that was a great thing uh there ben so thank you for joining me on that journey and uh yeah we will try and find another slot to visit maybe with some uh i've made a blue peter reference before um and i don't know if that's something do you know what blue peter is no i don't think you you might have to you might have to elucidate that one for me um so you've never heard the expression here's one i made earlier no have you ever built a tracy island yeah yeah okay paper mache and stuff you know right right yeah okay now that would be a british thing right you haven't got you know blue peter badge i love some of the language you know like i think it was a maybe we'll maybe we'll prepare one early you know here's one i made earlier and then take it apart or something like that you know a bit more preparation but for something that was like you and i just knocking around we think this is there's something in this i think we got somewhere we definitely went over the hour slot uh the the viewing the viewership um uh thanks james i don't know how long james has been involved but i can see the kind of the stream has gone up and down so we've had a few peaks um and a few troughs is there anything anything to add to the kind of wrap up here ben and i want to know if you've got anything you want to plug anyone you want to shout out anything to look out for and what your favorite features are in quebec but just before we do that is there anything to kind of summarize what we covered on tonight's show wow uh so i think to land this plane i would say that it's once we get our heads wrapped around the notion of of sharing a common set of definitions for what we what constitutes a service at the end of the day that is incredibly useful for not just grc but like a lot of other areas of the platform where we're just like trying to like like we said earlier just trying to solve for x right and that that can grow and is expected to change and mature over time and so like we were saying earlier making sure that we don't get too hung up on the fine grain detail like at the very start because we just need to stop the bleeding we just need to be able to to start creating something right um so being able to to at least agree on the terms of what's what and how to think about the relationships between these different terms is that's the big takeaway in terms of plug-in stuff um uh there's some some huge stuff in now learning related to csdm but it is also a big component of another now learning course that i think you guys should check out before they start charging for it it's currently free um the cmdb fundamentals course so it's free virtual training hold on is there still a stop on stuff or it's gone live i got an email the other day quebec deltas are coming or are now launched there was a pause on some of the training because of quebec and everything getting up to date so is that um this is this is on now learning it's all like this this one it's there is a box um right okay it's got a couple simulators there's um there are specific lessons on how to leverage the query builder that we just talked about and there's uh two different simulators that come that that are put together that are all rolled into this um and it's a really good kind of foundational series of of modules here so it's it they used to call it the the code name for this was seemed to be zero to hero before it got into now a lot uh now learning but now it's just called seem to be fundamental to kind of match our you know our terminology but it really does take you kind of soup to nuts through the entire like start to finish of the whole the whole kitten caboodle here excellent um i've uh just shared that link to the chat um it's a good place to start i'd say yeah yeah no that's good stuff so you're plugging stuff um now learning um links oh you've got one more excellent so when you said plug-in stuff i thought oh plug-ins what's new in quebec but actually stuff and and i forgot that yeah you're plugged my brain went plug-ins and i was connecting to the store so yeah so you're plugging um now learning are these your courses is there anything that you're doing so i do teach them i do absolutely teach them um can we book cuban can we say i want the training course but i want ben you can always you can always ask and i think in the states i might be the only certified one to teach that class live um so but we're trying to get more people to to teach it so for sure um so if you if you do end up booking that as a live course there's a high probability that you'll get me in the states you'd get darren halliday in in the uk i know darren yeah he did my grc course um oh excellent good people ball back yes the so the other one that i wanted to drop in here and you can put this or i guess you can share it in the chat too is um on on the now create side so this is like the template so if you're doing a csdm or cmdb implementation and you want kind of the the um the collateral the collateral right yeah basically all of the stuff that we would say that is like the good process the best process that we know of currently so the the good common processes involved in doing this work of of mapping out your your data models uh constructing your different ci classes creating these relationships so this is the actual you know meat and potatoes implementation component too with all the steps that you might have to take so so what i'll do i've put them in the chat just so we don't lose them but so people don't have to watch the whole thing to get to the links i'll put them in the description as well and then they'll be easier for people to to access so that's that's a great plug um really really good uh stuff there so i'll make sure i click them and take a look as well because this is gonna give you all the good stuff all the info all the good stuff this is not something that i'm like that close to it's kind of like i understand cmdb i understand that but it's always someone else's responsibility and so on so actually getting a bit closer to it i think right you you consume it as part of your work so it's like you know just like an army marches on its stomach every service in the platform like lives and dies by it seem to be you know we can't solve people's cmdb problems for them every time and i'd love to uh i'd love a cmdb to go in there and it and it's singing um it's much sexier than people make it out to be i promise guys yeah absolutely absolutely i think you know for people that are solving that problem then this is you need to know this stuff and with that i got a piece out man it's not copyright is it we got under the we got under the five second youtube's not gonna ding you you scared me then i've just been taken offline um so oh did you oh my god no no no no no no we get a fair use like real quick clip we better criticize that clip yeah to make sure it's um yeah we uh what is it you're allowed to um artistic criticism of of things is allowed i don't know perhaps one of the finest finest tracks uh of mr george michael's career we'll just say that right so um quebec ben let's wrap it up because uh the i don't want you playing any more copyright music on my channel in case i'm booted i'll never be able to monetize this thing that's not what it's about so quebec what's your biggest feature well uh man uh so semi-related to quebec but like seeing some of the the changes to indicator definitely like huge for me like and that was one that i was only moderately aware of that's literally version 12 i think that's just come out literally last week or something i was i went into that room and went this is a bit different have you decorated or you just move your stuff around looks it looks nice it looks good yeah like something's different um so that was that was a big one but uh you know in terms of like wider wider stuff like the fact that that having csdm uh baseline now in quebec is is a big deal uh it's kind of going back to this conversation um some of the stuff in terms of workspaces and the ui builder are just kind of mind-blowing some of the improvements to flow designer are incredible if we get a chance to go play run with some flow designer stuff later it just keeps getting better and better but this man um there were some major major improvements in in that space that that really impressed me so but there's just like it's so much that like this was a a major step forward like in a in a in a future release i would say just like so many good things i'll tell you one thing that wasn't on my radar because the big stuff the ui builder is is obviously you know you've i've done a few sessions on that already um instant scan as well which has been lurking since orlando uh thanks to mark oh god health scan yeah oh i totally forgot yeah that was like the one that's the big one that you can request your scan like oh my gosh literally that's that's a game changer as well but there's one that's kind of snuck in and it's not snuck in as much but when i saw it there i didn't see it as a game changer and a couple of people have mentioned it to me as a game changer and i maybe you want to consider this mullet over the natural language understanding um search for yes because maybe i'm so confident or used to the condition builder i just don't even click it or try it or use it anymore but i think for customers that are new to service now or at least just don't know the tables etc that could be a massive a massive game changer there what's your opinion on it well so what's funny is and i'd so that's one of those things that internally we've been leveraging for a for a while right like this is something that that cj showed off on stage at knowledge like two years ago and you know we made some if you look on crunchbase you can see that the bigwigs have made some some rather uh significant investments in you know natural language specifically because this is like the classic data architecture conundrum right like classifications like you call it a rubbish bin i call it a trash can or a garbage pail right like at the end of the day all the user wants is to to just have everything act like you know like google right i want xyz yeah my laptop's busted like where and getting you to the right place is is pretty i think some of us took it or i was certainly it's kind of taking it for granted as something that's been in there for a while because i've been been using it uh on our own employee stuff but uh yeah seeing it like officially uh rolled out to the to the bedding it's everywhere every list um so yeah that's one not to sleep on um but i think with that ben we are in danger of going into the two-hour mark and uh you've got real work to do i haven't i've finished work i've got some real sleep to do but that's fine i've really enjoyed having you on the show so thank you so much any final words before we close out well just that it's been a pleasure and i really uh like i i feel like i don't even like i'm not really like i guess if you do something you love you you don't really ever work a day right like so this was this is kind of my jam i love kind of nerding out about this stuff and i look forward to like building a second part of this yeah absolutely well thanks thanks for coming on the show thanks for being along for the ride as well uh ben because as i say it's been a year of live streaming and you you were kind of involved in the start and i really appreciate your your time tonight and and throughout so um yeah thanks for everyone in the chat as well good shout thanks uh ben let's say goodbye to everyone online and um wish them uh well and stay safe so take care everyone thank you all right take care buddy you